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Wed 19 May 2010 16:22

Alternatives to a Fiesta Econetic TDCi DPF ? - 3point14

I need a car. I don't have a car currently and though I know it has faults, the Ford Fiesta seems a decent motor in Econetic TDCi DPF specification. Sub 110 CO2 emissions means I can put it through a company and claim 100% in year one (still not sure I will do this though and might keep it private) and no car tax. The DPF does worry me a little but from my albeit limited research, I have real evidence of people using it without problems and internet forum warnings of problems due to various undocumented driving patterns.

The attraction of something like the Kia's 7 year warranty is very attractive to someone like me. I need 5 doors, reliability and practicality. Safety needs are high as I have a 3 year old child, though she will not be doing major miles. I guess I'd keep it for quite a while even though residuals might be strong.

I must admit that if I amandon the sub 110 CO2 limits then the argument for a diesel might not be so strong as we won't be doing mega mileages. 12k a year would be around the mark I guess. My worry is hearing of small petrol engines which are supposed to do 50 mpg around town but which are returning 35, making fuel 50% more expensive.

I see things like the Fiat Panda at about £6k new but it is truly a basic form of transport. The Fiesta would be around £12k/£13k I guess. I need some "luxury", not a tin can with wheels. I would obviously like to spend as little as possible but I can't help but think each extra £500 is only £2 a week over 5 years and that is without residuals. I would not like to sit in it each week and think how stupid I was saving a thousand or two buying something I could not wait to get rid of.

So whilst my search came across the Fiesta, I have not looked at many others in depth. I would appreciate some ideas. Thanks.

Edited by 3point14 on 19/05/2010 at 16:22

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Wed 19 May 2010 22:44

Alternatives to a Fiesta Econetic TDCi DPF ? - Avant

With supermini-sized cars, diesels aren't generally a good deal: unless you do a huge annual mileage, the extra cost takes forever to be recovered by better economy.

Go for something with a high-effiiciency petrol engine. The Fiesta is a good car - better to drive by some margin than the Vauxhall Corsa - but also look at the VW Polo, Toyota Yaris, Honda Jazz and Suzuki Swift. For low initial cost, as well as the Swift consider Kia and Hyundai.

My elder daughter is on her fourth 1.3 Yaris; the current one carries only £35 VED which is an advantage if you buy your car privately.

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Thu 20 May 2010 00:42

Alternatives to a Fiesta Econetic TDCi DPF ? - primeradriver

Any car can consume more than the rated amount of fuel -- so I wouldn't be too concerned about the 35mpg vs 50mpg arguments.

What a lot of people seem to forget is that smaller 16V petrol engines are predominantly lean-burn -- these don't take kindly to the lousy 30-in-fifth driving style some folks subject them to.

A modern diesel will simply break if treated like this; petrols won't but they become uneconomical. Small petrols have high power but low, sometimes very low torque, and so should be driven in low gear with highish revs and minimal throttle opening for best around-town economy. Always been my experience anyway.

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Thu 20 May 2010 01:07

Alternatives to a Fiesta Econetic TDCi DPF ? - 3point14

Any car can consume more than the rated amount of fuel -- so I wouldn't be too concerned about the 35mpg vs 50mpg arguments.

What a lot of people seem to forget is that smaller 16V petrol engines are predominantly lean-burn -- these don't take kindly to the lousy 30-in-fifth driving style some folks subject them to.

A modern diesel will simply break if treated like this; petrols won't but they become uneconomical. Small petrols have high power but low, sometimes very low torque, and so should be driven in low gear with highish revs and minimal throttle opening for best around-town economy. Always been my experience anyway.

But I am concerned about fuel economy just as much as depreciation and insurance. It cannot be overlooked in my opinion.

No idea what lean burn means. Are you saying it is just a means of being less fuel efficient ?

Why on earth would a modern diesel simply break if used like this ? If it breaks, then the manufacturer will get it back. They would not make cars to break like this. It cannot be in their interest.

Surely driving around town in low gears and high revs will place strain on the gearbox and burn fuel to the heavens ?

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Thu 20 May 2010 01:19

Alternatives to a Fiesta Econetic TDCi DPF ? - primeradriver

> No idea what lean burn means. Are you saying it is just a means of being less fuel efficient ?

Nope, quite the reverse. The engine is running more efficiently. Less revs = more effort required to accelerate = more strain.

> Why on earth would a modern diesel simply break if used like this ? If it breaks, then the manufacturer will get it back. They would not make cars to break like this. It cannot be in their interest.

Driving a newer diesel as I described will ruin the turbo, clog the DPF and generally cause problems.

> Surely driving around town in low gears and high revs will place strain on the gearbox and burn fuel to the heavens ?

Absolutely not. We're not talking about 50 in 2nd here or anything. The less torque required to maintain momentum the less the strain on the mechanical components. To picture what it's like for the car, try riding a bike slowly in top gear. Hurts, doesn't it? Same for the car. The vehicle is more balanced if the revs are that bit higher.

It may seem counter-intuitive but the low rev/high gear model is all wrong.

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Thu 20 May 2010 01:02

Alternatives to a Fiesta Econetic TDCi DPF ? - 3point14

With supermini-sized cars, diesels aren't generally a good deal: unless you do a huge annual mileage, the extra cost takes forever to be recovered by better economy.

Go for something with a high-effiiciency petrol engine. The Fiesta is a good car - better to drive by some margin than the Vauxhall Corsa - but also look at the VW Polo, Toyota Yaris, Honda Jazz and Suzuki Swift. For low initial cost, as well as the Swift consider Kia and Hyundai.

My elder daughter is on her fourth 1.3 Yaris; the current one carries only £35 VED which is an advantage if you buy your car privately.

If they had the 1.5 Yaris we have in Asia then yes, it could be an option.

Some people claim very good mpg for diesels around town, some dont !

Looking at the Polo and considering the long warranties on the Kia and Hyundai as well as the Toyota 5 year warranty option. It still has to be a decent motor though.

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Thu 20 May 2010 02:35

Alternatives to a Fiesta Econetic TDCi DPF ? - 3point14

Just been looking at the Hyundai i10 Style.

No PX and without looking too hard I see £7,777 at www.broadspeed.com/ but Hyundai are doing £1,700 minimum trade in and though it has some conditions, you must be able to pick up a banger for £100 and they know that so I'm guessing you can have the £1,700 off the full list from them with no trade in so £8,850-£1,700=£7,150.

MPG is 44.8/68.9/57.6 and it has some decent features such as electric sunroof and all round electric windows (we do use them as we have a baby). ESC is a cost option at £355 list. For £7500 or better with ASC and a 5 year warranty it is a contender. Insurance is not as cheap as the Fiesta, around 20% more.

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Thu 20 May 2010 15:00

Alternatives to a Fiesta Econetic TDCi DPF ? - SteveLee

I wonder how many people will manage to argue the car the they've bought a vehicle that's not fit for purpose. Many small diesels are being sold as “city” cars – those fitted wit DPF systems are undoubtedly unsuitable for primarily urban use.

Back to the article, a mileage of 12,000 per year does not warrant diesel, most small petrol engines these days are remarkably efficient and will deliver good MPG if driven sensibly. If I were spending my own money on a new small car, it would be a KIA (for the excellent warranty) if the other manufacturers haven't the faith to stand by their products with a decent warranty – why should we buy from them?

The Panda is a cracking car – but, it's at the end of its production life – surely a new one is just around the corner? And again, that KIA warranty takes some beating.

Whatever you go for, barter hard, forget what they are offering, most new cars have risen in price to swallow the sc***age scheme money for the dealer rather than the vendor. Ask for a huge discount and simply walk away if it's not forthcoming - play dealers off each other. salesmen are not your friends, they are not doing you a favour, they've trying to rob you of as much money as possible. Go towards the end of the month/quarter when there are sales targets to meet - some dealers will literally give a car away at cost if it means they meet their targets; Losing volume discounts by failing to meet a sales target can finish dealers off these days.

Pick your car, see what sort of discounts are on offer off the cuff, then knock another substantial chunk off and then go back to the dealers stating this is what you are prepared to spend, not a penny more, and leave your number with them - it works every time - unless you're trying to buy a car that's in genuine short supply - in which case pick another car!

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Thu 20 May 2010 15:34

Alternatives to a Fiesta Econetic TDCi DPF ? - 3point14

Good points.

Hyundai are undoubtedly offering the £1500-3000 allowance for a 7-10 year old banger because the sc***page scheme has ended. On the i10 this works out to be £1700. As list is £8850 then that brings a net of £7150 which already undercuts the £7777 I have found from elsewhere.

www.hyundai.co.uk/tradeupgrade/

Go for the mid range spec, the Comfort model and you get numbers of £8340-£1700=£6640 which is not far off being half price of the Fiesta and is a decent discount under any Fiesta. They are not the same cars to drive I suppose but I am guessing they are nearer to live with than their price tags suggest.

At the moment, I am not considering spending the same money on a bigger car from a less prestigious brand but merely to save money outright. The only problem I have is not having any wheels. hiring a car to visit loads of dealers weekend after weekend could well erode any savings made through the very end of negotiation.

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