Folks,
I am considering a Citroen XM estate 2.1 Diesel auto to replace my Peugeot 405 GRD 1.9 which is in it's twilight years at 250K.
As with many XM issues, opinions are polarised regarding the life of the box.
With proper ATF changes and decent oil, what is:
1/ The life of a normal auto box on most cars?
2/ Ditto, but of the XM?
Point 2/ is tricky, as the vast majority of XMs have been abused and ill-maintained. And then there are the ones -without- Citroen main dealer FSH...
Terry B are you there? How did your XM survive transcontinental caravan towing?
Any comments on what makes auto boxes generally live longer, (and what are the signs of illness) much appreciated.
rg
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Signs of illnes: dirty discoloured fluid, snatchy changes, refusal to change gear. If fluid is black, ouch!
Normal life of autobox? I understand on Ford Granadas 70k miles, MB 200k +. Depends upon engineering and use. When I had one, I changed the fluid every 30k miles..
XM? Dunno but I guess it should outlive the car..(I know that's not difficult:-)..
If you tow something very heavy, do lots of stop/start driving and high speeds when towing then possibly not long..(My secondhand XJ6 towed a caravan happily at very high speeds and had done over 80k miles when I sold it and the gearbox seemed 100% and fit for another 80k. Pity about the body, the engine and the 15mpg at high speeds:-( )
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Hi Rob,
my dad has had his 1993 (L) model XM estate 2.1 Diesel auto since new. It has been serviced at a main Citroen dealer until a couple of years ago, now it is looked after by a Cit specialist. The car has 110,000 miles and never a problem with the autobox.
The only problem, apart from the usual XM stuff, has been "erosion" on the cylinder head causing the head gasket to blow, which required a new head 2 years ago. Citroen UK and the main dealer were spectacularly uninterested in explaining why this occured (despite FCSH) or offering any assistance despite our belief that it was a manufacturing defect.
He loves the roominess, driveability and comfort and I love the distinctive styling. Overall, he is pleased with the car and it has, on the whole, been reliable. He broke down only once when a suspension pipe wore through. Currently the car visits the workshop perhaps only once in between regular services. Incidentally, Car Mechanics magazine ran a XM as a project car last year so you might be able to get some back issues.
The autobox on my 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee is a recognised weak point for this car. This is compounded by the huge lack of awareness among owners and many technicians of the need to use the more expensive ATF 3+ (type 7176) fluid in place of the usual Dextron 2 or 3. My Jeep has now done 87,000 miles and I have just had the autobox rebuilt; the third time in the car's life the box has been open for major surgery.
XMs are cheap and interesting but I would find out if you have a specialist workshop near you before buying!
CMark
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CMark,
Thanks for the reply. I have been researching XMs since April this year, and there seems to be quite a bit of mythology surrounding them.
Head gasket: Paul Johnson at XM Centre says that the gasket type was changed around '95 which addressed this area of weakness. The engine can be rechipped for around 150bhp (std - 110) it seems.
In summary, they seem to be far less tolerant than most vehicles to shoddy and ill-informed maintenance and general neglect. And, yes, series 1 vehciles had a number of in-built snags which, it appears, can be sorted.
The Jeep and it's little surprises; yes, ditto with my Vauxhall Monterey (rebadged Isuzu Trooper). Independent specialist Central Isuzu say the manual box only works really well with Valvoline Synpower synthetic engine oil, and needs changing every 24K. Worse still is the limited slip diff, which takes around 4 litres of Shell LSD oil produced by only one plant in the world, and, according to Millers (specialist oil people), cannot be easily replicated due to it containing special additives. Only main dealers and the odd independent keeps it. Using gear oil wreckes the LSD in pretty short time. And you would think that 4x4 trucks would be pretty "rough and tough" and get by with the odd wipe of vaseline from time to time. No sir. There must be some pretty neglected ones out there.
Thanks again,
Anyone else got anything to add about the XM?
Rob
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Hi Rob, yes, I'm here...
My XMs both used to tow around France like a dream - average 2500 miles per holiday. Caravan weight was 1340 Kg and I kept the noseweight at 95 Kg. You'd hardly notice it was there. Only got in trouble once, coming through a lorry's bow-wave at 80 mph just as the uphill bit ran out (yes, that's legal over there). Stabiliser earned its money that day, as did the air freshener:o)
Never any trouble with the auto boxes although strangely the first (M-reg) was noticeably smoother than the second (S-reg). I never found out why but then I never seriously asked since even the second was perfectly acceptable. Until now I hadn't tied in that the first also gave better mpg than the second - wonder if there's any connection?
I did check the fluid regularly but rarely if ever had to top it up and it always looked pristine on the dipstick. I also had regular services by a local independent Cit specialist.
The bottom line is that if the XM hadn't been depreciating faster than I was paying it off, and if interest rates hadn't tumbled I'd probably still have it.
Hope this helps.
I'm a bit worried by the Grand Cherokee story though - I assume the gearboxes on later (2001) models are tougher (crosses fingers)...
Terry
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Hi Rob, I used to own a Peugeot 605 diesel auto for minicabbing,sold it with 225,000 miles on it,still good. I did however change the fluid every 40k and put Wynnes auto box additive in,an autobox repairer swore by it, and used it in every rebuild.
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