Knowing the width and depth of knowledge with you guys, I wonder if you can give me some advice.
I live at the end of a road I share ownership of (not posh I assure you!) and when we had the bad snow a couple of weeks ago a workman (sparky, not brickie sadly) who is doing some work on a neighboring property had his wife visit him. It turns out that when she left she just reversed straight into our (low) garden wall, demolishing it with her Shogun.
We were not in at the time, but because of the snow there were tyre tracks giving a clue to the offending vehicle. When we got back we went to see the workmen who (obviously) said it was not them and it was only when our neigbour remembered the wifes earlier arrival did this guy admit she had been, but he claimed she was a good driver and would not have caused this.
My wife photographed the tyre tread left in the snow (using cocoa powder of all things to make the tread clearly visible in the pic - ingenious I thought) and he said he would bring the Shogun the next day to prove it was not his wife that had caused the damage. Next day he turns up in his van and does not contact us before he leaves the property again.
Talking with our neighbour it turns out the electrician thinks his wife did cause it and (bless her) our neighbour has told him he will not get away with leaving us in the lurch. They have found out where he lives, etc and have told him that they will not pay his bill until they are sure we are being sorted out.
Finally we collared the guy (who does seem very odd) yesterday who says his wife did knock it down but asking for us to get a couple of quotes to avoid going down the insurance route due to the excess / higher premiums, etc. We said that we would think it will probably cost a grand to put right and is that really cheaper and he came back and said that we will have to go through his insurers.
The thing is that there are things he has said (like suggesting we might need to say the wall was knocked down on a later day than it really was) that make me suspect that his wife or the car was not insured. Also I have found out that he has fallen on hard times in the past year or so and is actually living in a caravan in a field, having lost his house
(no problem with that, poor chap, and I am not saying this must make him dodgy, but tied in with his unwillingness to proactively come and talk to us about this, relying on passing messages to us via our neighbour until my wife stopped his van yesterday leads me to speculate that he will stall us until he jumps ship and leaves us to sort out the mess.
The neighbour's work has been completed, he wants paying and as he has told her he is going through their car insurance she feels duty bound to pay him. Fair enough, but what are the right steps for me now?
Do I call my house insurer and give them the details of this guy's wifes insurance (he has promised to call us with the details today) or do I call this insurance company of theirs directly to see if it is legit and ask how to make a claim against their policy?
Do I at least register the accident with the police?
I do not want to just wait for this guy to do something (when he has demonstrated that he is unwilling even to have the courtesy to know on our door and admit fault), when I could get on and do something myself, I just have no idea where to start.
If a car crashes into a car it is clear what do do, but I have no experience of car crashing into a wall.
Can anyone advise the correct proceedure for me to follow now? Many thanks.
Gavin
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Report it to the police and get a crime reference number (you should have done it before).
Report it to your home insurer and let them sort it out for you.
Even if you claim, your home insurance premium won't rise too much next year.
Or if they admit, try claiming it directly from their car insurer.
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Are garden walls covered? Fences are usually excluded from Buildings Insurance. Check your policy first. If covered, tell your insurers and let them pursue the builder if they see fit. Household insurance is not the same as car insurance in that when you make a claim your premium goes up by the same amount next year, unless there are repeated water damage claims. I mean, when was the last time you claimed on your Buildings Insurance?
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Are garden walls covered? Fences are usually excluded from Buildings Insurance.
Usually they are included (I claimed myself once following burglary attempt) but again depends on policy.
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Private road = police probably not interested, though they would be interested in the lack of insurance.
Get the vehicle reg and check on Askmid, first.
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(not posh I assure you!)
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Definately not posh if your neighburs will not own up to something like this !
If they are being evasive and assuming you dont particularly care about your relationship with them, I would go to the Police, and they should persuade them to come clean and let you claim on thier car insurance.
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Poshness and decency are in no way related (often they are mutually exclusive)
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(not posh I assure you!) >> Definately not posh if your neighburs will not own up to something like this ! If they are being evasive and assuming you dont particularly care about your relationship
Eh? unless I'm reading it wrong ( quite possibly) the neighbours are being as helpful as they can, it's their sparky who is dragging his feet.
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20+yrs ago I knocked down a section of low garden wall when on business in company car. Informed householder, gave them my details and the company insurance paid them out OK.
However this guy sounds like he could be very hard to chase. Is next doors bill for the works he's been doing large enough for you take the wall costs out of it before they pay him if your next door folks are keen to help you?
Be fair with him too. £1000 would re-build a lot of low wall round here.
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"£1000 would re-build a lot of low wall round here."
£1000 would get you two brickies and a labourer for a week, with enough for a tip. They'd lay the North side of 2,000 bricks in that time, at an additional cost of £0.25-£0.40/brick, plus sand/cement.
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It might be a private road but it is a public place and the police will act on this. How long ago did this happen as you should have inform the police earlier. If you make it known to the electrician you will have to take it to the police then he will probably cough up a lot quicker as the wife could/would be heading for 3 points and a fine and may be, if the car was not insured that day, 6 points and several hundred pounds. Regards Peter
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Spamcan you are right. Helpful neighbour, less helpful sparky.
I expected the guy to do the decent thing, hold his hands up, see if he knew a brickie in the trade or go though the insurance.
I will call him tommorow and ask for the insurance details and mention that I need to report it to the police to get a reference for the insurance and see how he responds.
What is the askmid thing refered to above? If I can get his numberplate and check the insurance in advance of the call then so much the better.
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Oh, and here in Sussex a little wall with all the footings dug out first will cost a fortune. White flint bricks that match the house will probably be expensive too.
I would be amazed to get two brickies, the bricks and a days work for £1000 round here. Was the same when I lived in Wiltshire too.
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www.askmid.com/askmid.aspx
You may have to be, erm, less than truthful about ownership. ;>)
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...He said I might have to say it didn't happen on the day it did...
Telling lies is always a bad idea, especially when officialdom in the shape of an insurance company/police is on the horizon.
I think you read this quite right - the guy is skint and the wife was not insured at the time, even if she was a day later.
If you get any money from him, by any means, it will be a minor miracle.
Blood and stones - or should that be bricks? - spring to mind.
It's asking a lot of your neighbour, but could she pay some of his bill to you directly as compensation?
I'd be prepared to accept a few hundred, because I don't think you'll get anything any other way.
The guy's first reaction was to lie, he's not suddenly going to turn into Mr Model Citizen.
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Movilogo 1st post and iffi here are basically all info you need.
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www.askmid.com/askmid.aspx You may have to be erm less than truthful about ownership. ;>)
It isn't being viewed trust me. Many a Corsa Chav has been nailed by it. Trust me again.
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£1000 would get you two brickies and a labourer for a week
Hmm - 3 men for 40 hours each - not a lot more than minimum wage. Are you sure brickies are that cheap? Or bricks for that matter ...
We had a wall rebuilt a couple of years ago (admittedly not a low wall). Two weeks, one brickie full-time, and a labourer or the boss mixing mortar. Total cost £13K, and that was the cheapest estimate by far - and we aren't in an expensive part of the country.
Edited by Andrew-T on 27/01/2010 at 23:50
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We had a wall rebuilt a couple of years ago (admittedly not a low wall). Two weeks one brickie full-time and a labourer or the boss mixing mortar. Total cost £13K
Andrew, just out of interest would you mind telling me the dimensions of this wall.
Martin D. (Building Contractor Est. 1977)
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Just out of interest would you mind telling me the dimensions of this wall.
Approx. 25 yards long, 6 feet high, 7 reinforcing pillars with steel inserts, several panels of lattice brickwork. Other estimates were 17K and 19K, insurance assessor's ready reckoner guessed about £20K. Seemed a lot to me at the time (2006/7).
Edited by Andrew-T on 28/01/2010 at 23:37
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..... Do I call my house insurer and give them the details of this guy's wifes insurance (he has promised to call us with the details today) or do I call this insurance company of theirs directly to see if it is legit and ask how to make a claim against their policy? Do I at least register the accident with the police? ....... >>
I hope it all came through as promised, but if not, here as just some thoughts that went through my idle mind:
1. Crime number: What crime will you report? Criminal damage? Accidental damage? Driving off without giving their insurance & car details after causing damage? How much time and effort (and money) do you expect the Police to expend on this investigation before they close and/or the CPS mark the case as not worth prosecuting?
2. Car insurance: What proof is there that a particular car and a particular driver caused the damage at the time alleged?
3. Assuming you pay Askmid and or DVLA to obtain the car's registered keeper's name address and insurance details, how will you prove that they were responsible? What if you discover that the car driver was not insured, the had no tax, no MOT, etc.? Will you press charges for the husband to be charged with allowing an uninsured driver to drive the car? Will you press charges for any other offences against the driver or owner of the car?
4. Home insurance: If you claim on your policy, do not be surprised if the "loss adjuster/surveyor" finds that the wall collapsed due to lack of maintenance.
5. Police & CPS & Justice: Assuming that the person responsible for the damage is brought to court for their crimes that get discovered from this investigation, do you think that after all the hassle the court will impose any meaningful sentence on the perp?
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Do not be surprised if the "loss adjuster/surveyor" finds that the wall collapsed due to lack of maintenance.
Exactly, jbif. Our insurer and our neighbour's (the ownership of the £13K wall is undefined) each tried to place the fault on the other side after the wall blew down in the gale in January 2007. Only after several months' arguing and threats of the ombudsman did both insurers cough up 25% each. But maybe for a smaller cheaper wall they may not bother to send an assessor.
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.. But maybe for a smaller cheaper wall they may not bother to send an assessor. .. >>
Unfortunately, not so.
Old (80+ pensioner) widow had a similar incident to that of OP. Some unknown driver smashed her garden wall (only 3ft high, damge only 4 ft wide). Police took details, statements, victim support, and all the rest, but after one week "file closed, no firther action". Anyway, the old dear has been insured with the same major company for over 40 years, pays full whack in premiums without seeking quotes elsewhere, has never made any claims. Informs the Insurer, their "surveyor" comes around, reassures her that everything will be fine, and to get two or three quotes for the work. A few days later, the mail arrives to say "sorry, but wall was in bad state, had not been well maintained, and that was why it collapsed when hit by the car". Old lady is in no mod to argue with "authority" and "professional" people. She trusts them, you see. So gets the estimates in and the price quoted is between £2000 and £5000. In the end, a builder recommended by her milkman did the job for £1500. She paid the cash out of her life savings.
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It seems quite obvious to me:
- Report the damage of your wall to the Police. It's not your job to assign motive or cause,
tell them your story (inc. neighbour's & perp's 'confession' etc.) so far & let them judge course of action.
- Tell your house insurer as matter of process, with any crime number.
- Take advice at small claims court with view to sue; websites & court office can provide info.
- Relax & good luck.
By the way, your road & house (and wall!) sound quite charming - I used to live in E.Sussex & can imagine well the flinty wall & matching house down a little lane. Ah.. nice
memories for me.
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- Take advice at small claims court with view to sue; websites & court office can provide info.
Given that rule #1 of litigation is don't bother suing anyone who can't afford to pay you, and it appears the alleged offender is already down on his luck financially and living in a caravan, that would be an exercise in pointlessness IMHO.
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... living in a caravan, ... >>
How does that work with giving addresses for driving-licence, V5-registered-keeper, and location for insurance rating (assuming all three exist)?
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>> ... living in a caravan ... >> How does that work with giving addresses for driving-licence V5-registered-keeper and location for insurance rating (assuming all three exist)?
A good question! I was taking account of sfd's original statement :-
"Also I have found out that he has fallen on hard times in the past year or so and is actually living in a caravan in a field, having lost his house "
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... living in a caravan, ... >> How does that work with giving addresses?...
Depends where the caravan is.
In my part of the world the sites for the travelling community have a postal address.
My static caravan in leafy North Yorkshire is a holiday home, but I could get post sent there to my name at the site address.
It has 'buildings' and contents insurance, so I imagine a motor insurer would accept it as an address - I can legally stay there for 10 months of the year, if I wanted to.
Dunno about the DVLA.
Another thing about having a caravan park address is you will struggle to get any finance/credit - can't think why. :)
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..already down on his luck financially and living in a caravan, that would be an exercise in pointlessness IMHO.
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't - it's all hearsay & rumour at this point. It's better to cover that base & allow nature to take its course - if he's running a business there must be some focal point for that - it may be a business address or similar. And who knows how much money he has? Again rumour & speculation.
The mere threat (or preliminary papers) of court action often works wonders anyway.
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Interesting comments from everyone. Thanks to those that have replied.
The car was insured - at least yesterday it was.........
I would not amend the date if requested and if this mean't there was no policy in place at the time so-be-it. Never want to get caught out lying, not worth it.
I will give him the benefit of the doubt until I get to speak with him to get it resolved. I will get his policy number and initially will call his insurer to ask the proceedure to make a claim.
The wall is low (2ft / 2ft 6" or so), but 20ft long with the middle section caved in and fallen over with the remainder pushed out by the force of the impact. There would have been no maintenance required and being the flint brick and solid structure can still be clearly seen to be substantial.
I hope not to get my insurer of the house involved unless I really have to, but as a place of past resort I will look into what the policy covers. Turns out his address is a farm address and I assume he uses this for the post, etc.
As far as the comments from someone asking how I knew who did it and what proof I have then the photos of the tyre tread, the height of the towbar impact that I should be able to measure up and his admission in front of a number of witnesses that he knew his wife did it. Should be enough to cover it I think.
I will let you know how I get on.
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