Oh no, not another DMF question!
I've been asking around this site while trying to choose some sort of car to buy to replace an Omega with something cheap to tax and run. There are specific interior space needs, I want diesel, and ideally would prefer auto, but probably can't afford it. Above all, I want to be get something that will be reliable for as many years as possible.
I also have a scrappage vehicle, but the only new small vehicle big enough, the Nissan Note, can't take a proper spare wheel and anyway comes in just a little too expensive. Older ones are higher car tax, so I've moved up in vehicle size to Focus or Skoda Octavia.
I'm waiting to have a test drive in an Octavia. I hope to try a manual, which I understand has a dual mass flywheel, and a DSG automatic, which I have been told does not. I am a bit worried about the DSG gearbox because of my drive, which involves backing out uphill through a 90 degree turn. My current car withits torque converter is fine, but I worry about having to slip the clutch(es) in the DSG or on a DMF car.
Today I visited the local main Ford agent to look at a Focus 57 reg, just 2 years old, that they had advertised. When I arrived, I was told it was in the workshop 'being prepared'. It turned out that they were having to replace the DMF.
So, the question is... What actually causes these flywheels to fail? If I know it's a specific driving technique and there is a clear procedure to keep one reliable, I'd probably be happy to get one, but nothing I've read seems to give a specific reason for failure.
As it is, it seems really dodgy to buy any modern diesel car, yet it seems that DMF's have been used in industrial vehicles for ages. Is there any clear guidance anywhere on this? Also, is a newly fitted replacement DMF in a Focus likely to have an improved design, or is it the same as the one that has just failed?
I really am sorry to raise this same old question, and have made such a long post. V. grateful for any help.
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I think the DMF's are like a big shock absorber and, as such, contain parts which are made of rubber and/or plastic. After a period of time it's this material which begins to deteriorate and deposit itself on the inside of the bellhousing and starter motor. I don't know whether driving style has anything to do with it but it probably does. I can only guess that harsh use of the clutch is likely to cause the DMF to fail more quickly.
Some people replace the DMF with a solid flywheel, and these are, indeed, readily available for many popular vehicles. However, the DMF is there for a reason, and replacing one with a solid flywheel is likely to have noticeable consequences. It is, after all, a shock absorber in the drive system of the car, and if this is removed it's going to make the drive more harsh and the level of vibration will also increase.
Some petrol vehicles are now being fitted with DMF's; you can't escape!
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"""Some petrol vehicles are now being fitted with DMF's; you can't escape!"""
They were fitted to petrol engines years before they appeared on diesels!!!!
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Thanks for the replies, but they don't actually help that much. It seems this is a widely discussed problem, but that actual guidance is thin on the ground.
If the flywheel has had to be replaced after 2 years, as it has in the case of the Focus I was going to look at, I'm really worried about being able to afford to run a modern car. I'd have thought that Ford, with its research establishment in the UK, must have some data on these flywheels that could either produce advice on driving techniques or some figures about MTBF failure rates.
I've usually traded in the bigger automatics at mileages around 200k, but I'm looking now for something that is reasonably efficient and will last about 10 years with regular servicing and care.
Still, there do seem to be proper flywheels available for the 1.8 tdci on ebay, so I suppose that there is some hope down the line.
I never thought that trying to find a car to buy would be so utterly depressing.
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You are actually much better off with something made in the mid '90,s, they are far more durable than modern cars and much cheaper to repair, new enough to have the mod cons but old enough that you can repair them yourself if necessary.
I run manual diesel Citroen XMs, about the most comfortable cars on the road and among the most roomy, the diesel will do 50 mpg + driven sympatheticaly and will last for 300,000 miles with reasonable maintenance, clutches are can be good for well over 200,000 miles.
Peugeot 306, 405 and 406 made before '99 also have solid reliable mechanics and dont need to go to a garage to have the fault codes read every time something goes wrong.
Did I mention that I don't like modern cars?
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Peter N isn't far off the truth!
I think i would be far more worried about owning a car with a DSG gearbox than a DMF.
My Wife & I have both had diesels for years & many with DMF & never had an issue. Its partly down to how you drive, avoid jack rabbit starts & driving too slowly in too higher gear ( worst cause of DMF failure) & treating the cluch with respect & don't overheat it!
If you wish to keep the car 10 years then think about repairs & praticality ( ford take a lot of beating ) never thought i would hear myself say that!
(Ex V6 CDX Omega owner) worst car i ever had & last vauxhall for good!
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>you can't escape!
Aren't automatics (not automated manuals) DMF-free?
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Billaboard reading your OP one make stands out to me as your perfect solution, BMW 3 or preferably 5 series Diesel with proper auto box.
Get the gearbox fluid changed and remove/discard inlet manifold flaps (see BMWland) and you'll have a proper durable car to replace your present proper car.
Regarding your manouevre at home, i load DSG cars onto trucks...close precise placement is not pleasant, nothing then full engagement when on steep incline.
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can't take a proper spare wheel
Off-topic a little but I always find this comment a little strange. Is this really a good reason to not buy a particular car? Having a space saver wheel in my boot doesn't bother me in the slightest. At least I have a functioning spare wheel of some description because more and more cars now seem to come with only a can of emergency tyre gunk...
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I find it strange that anyone is happy not to have a proper spare wheel. I've had 3 long way away from home use-the-spare experiences in the 6 years with the Omega. Where do you put the wheel you take off? It's usually a dirty Saturday night, and the tyre place often has to order a tyre if they are open. The Nissan spare was different width and different diam. Maybe others don't expect a car to be such a robust workhorse as me?
Yes, this last Omega has killed Vauxhall for me, too. Too complex, way, way, way too expensive for spares, and none of the diagnostics, dealer, indy garage and mine ever seem to agree. At £75 a test one would have thought the dealers diagnostic would have been able to tell him what was wrong. The previous 2 Omegas were simple and fine, but the dealers diagnostics never worked for them either, but at least they could be fixed by common sense.
I think a BMW would be too expensive. I did look into one dealer. One son has an old auto diesel Merc which is great, but SWMBO hopes we have at least one car built this century.
I'm grateful for the info in this thread about DSG. That and the rising tax trajectory of DSG as opposed to manual cars has pushed me back to the DMF vehicles. I've now tried the manual Octavia and, only because it's older and dearer than the Focus, have made it second choice. I'm going to go for the Focus as long as I like what I see when the main dealer finally gets it down from the hoist. It's still 6 feet in the air with a spanner wielder underneath. Very encouraging!
We also have an old auto diesel Disco that works fine as a road going tractor to tow the 2.5 ton boat and others round fields, so if the DMF breaks we are not totally marooned.
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I'm sorry to hear you has a bad experience with an Omega as well! I must of had over 20 vauxhalls of which all gave excellent service , my senators were Fab & 2.3 magnum was excellent fun years ago & all my cavalier SRi were brilliant & my Carlto GSi 24v was something else & bullet proof! loved it so much i kept it 7 years ! then vauxhall made the vectra & the omega & I had both at once & oh my word never ever again would i venture near vauxhall! why did they change?
At least with your focus its fairly simple & most can fix.
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I find it strange that anyone is happy not to have a proper spare wheel.
Well to be honest having any kind of spare wheel (space saver or otherwise) is almost a luxury to me. (Obviously) I own a car which has a space saver as a spare wheel, but I also own a motorcycle and as we all know, motorcycles don't have spare wheels.
I have been into Europe on my bike on three seperate occasions, as well as extensive mileage covered in the UK and never really worried about ifs and buts over whether I got a flat tyre. If I did I would call upon my breakdown cover, be it here or abroad and if it was on the continent at the time I would just get the tyre fixed over there and carry on regardless. If it was over here then I would most likely get it recovered back home.
Add to that I drive a truck for a living and again nowadays very few trucks or trailers carry spare wheels. It has been donkeys years since I have had a flat where the tyre has deflated on the spot and required attention there and then, every other time (and there hasn't been that many in all the years) I have always managed to limp back home one way or another.
So all in all I really can't see a problem with having a space saver in the boot of a car over a conventional full size wheel. Granted a full size wheel is the ideal spare to have but I think that shying away from buying a car just because the spare wheel is a space saver is worrying far too much over nothing.
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" never really worried about ifs and buts over whether I got a flat tyre. If I did I would call upon my breakdown cover, be it here or abroad and if it was on the continent at the time I would just get the tyre fixed over there and carry on regardless. If it was over here then I would most likely get it recovered back home."
Simon you haven't had a real experience, tyres the right size can be difficult to obtain in Europe. had to wait 4 days for a tyre for a Jag when it blew out on a motorway!
Recovery home was £2600 repatriation back to the UK & over 2 weeks! but I was told to wait for a tyre!. towing a 2 ton caravan wasn't an option on a space saver for an 1300 mile return journey.
I will only have a car with a proper spare nowdays. I used to cover 250 motorway miles a day & had numerous blow outs in a 7 year period with very expensive tyres so for me its a real experience
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I too would not be happy relying on a can of gunk to repair a puncture. You cannot practice fixing a flat using gunk when you are at home in the dry, the first time you have to do it will be in less than ideal conditions, and if you get a puncture which severly damages the tyre, gunk is useless. Assuming the puncture is a very small hole in the tread or a leaky valve and assuming your gunk was not already out of date and you managed to reinflate the tyre, you then still need to get the tyre properly repaired or replaced, plus you need a new can of gunk.
A space saver spare is better than gunk because you know you have a new wheel/tyre that is good-to-go even though there are limits to how fast/far you can use it. And where do you put the punctured wheel/tyre to get it to a tyre place?
Best of all is a full size spare fully inflated.
I suspect gunk/space savers are more to do with manufactures saving money and weight than providing a better solution for the car user.
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