I am in the market for a big estate car in the £18-20k range, and am facing that classic dilema: Do I go for a nearly new mass-market car (Mondeo) or do I go for a 3-year old or so prestige car (E-class).
I want a diesel auto and like my toys. A nearly-new Mondeo Titanium estate would fit the bill and my test of one bore out the positive road tests that one reads. At £15k below list with only a few thousand miles, it makes financial sense. But at the end of the day there is no escaping the fact that it is 'only' a fwd 4-cylinder car.
Alternatively I could get another 6-cylinder E-class estate (had one before). It will be older with more miles, less economical, more expensive to maintain, etc. But will be quicker, smoother, have rwd and maybe more satisfying than a Mondeo.
Tried an A6 Avant but didn't like it. Don't fancy a BMW. Mondeo seems to be the best of the mass-market fwd cars.
Head says Mondeo, heart says Merc. What would an educated BRer chose?
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Neither.
What else have you looked at or it is prestige Audi/Mercedes vs Ford?
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Must it be diesel and auto. How about diesel and manual or petrol and auto. IN which case a Legacy or Outback must be on your list.
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Chrysler 300C Touring, Toyota Avensis Estate, Volvo V70 or maybe wait 12 months for the Skoda Superb Wagon to come out?
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I do 20,000 a year, and like the torque of a diesel and convenience of an auto - hence I would like a diesel auto! Father-in-law has just got his 3rd (or is it 4th?) Forester but I fear the economy of a Subaru in my largely urban driving would be frightening.
Have discounted an A6 (too small inside given it's exterior size and iffy steering) and don't like 5-series. I did consider an Avensis (have a mate who works at Toyota HQ and can get a discount) but it seems the 2.2 autos are all new, and I don't want to buy new because of the inevitable depreciation (especially on a mass-market car).
Yes, Nick S the Skoda Superb estate might be worth waiting for, but I had discounted the V70 as it is just a smaller Mondeo for more money, isn't it?. Don't like the brashness of the 300C and the fact that it's chassis is 2-generations old E-class.
I am open to other suggestions. Rtj70, what did you have in mind?
Edited by boxsterboy on 10/12/2009 at 22:01
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I was thinking the current Avensis Estate. I doubt your budget would stretch to the current A4 Avant will it?
I also thought Skoda Superb Estate but it's not out and you were debating nearly new Mondeo to old Mercedes. Skoda Superb isn't even available just yet as new let alone nearly new.
The curve ball suggestion? A VAG car with a 1.8T petrol or even a detuned 2.0T (some Audi's have these now).
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You won't have to wait 12 months for the Superb Combi - should be in the UK in February.
I take the point about 4-cylinders - combined with diesel and auto it was unbearable in the Mercedes B200 that I had. But the CR 170bhp diesel is much smoother and quieter and would be worth trying with DSG. Get a test run in a Superb and see if you think the estate is worth waiting for.
If it's too big then of course there's the Octavia vRS with the same engine. That's what I have: I couldn't justify the extra cost of an Audi A4 with the same engine (and a lot less room) and I honestly don't think I'm missing anything, except the option of a V6 engine (which I would have had to have secondhand).
Edit - you could also try the VW Passat estate, although lack of a proper handbrake would rule it out for me.
Edited by Avant on 10/12/2009 at 22:15
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Ayone mentioned a C5 estate?
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Ha ha... I was too afraid!
But seeing as you mention it....
I'm within a few hours of going after a new C5 HDi VTR+Nav Tourer.... more than 75% sure to go ahead. It's to replace an 8yr old 100K+ Mondeo III Ghia X Estate (petrol). Choice for me was slightly different.... a 5yr old larger diesel estate like MB/Audi or an almost new Mondeo.
The C5 has ended up being an obvious first choice for me if not the one most folks in this class would go for. I think the tourer looks fine on the road and has a quality interior with just enough quirkyness to be a Citroen. It has more gadgets than you could ever want... perhaps some of them will even work at the same time. Road tests and users all seem to say it is a comfortable, quiet and refined cruising car which suits my needs over and above performance.
If I do this it will be new and then will go at the end of the 3yr warranty period as I would not like to maintain one at 3yrs/50K and onwards from my own pocket.
Edited by M.M on 10/12/2009 at 22:39
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With 3 growing kids I had ruled out the A4 (without actually looking at it - the A6 back seat is hardly ideal for 3 as it is). I'm testing a Passat 140 DSG on Saturday but I think this would be second to a Mondeo in all respects except the badge on the front grille not that that should matter of course ;-)
I think the new C5 would be a bit on the small side too - it's a shame they couldn't have kept the size of the old one in the shape of the new one!
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Have you studied the C5 size on paper and in the flesh? I think it's true they have lost some interior space from front, rear and load area due to styling and in some respects it looks small after my Mondeo... but in reality the measurements stack up quite well.
Compared to the Passat it is a longer and wider car with more rear legroom and just 2% less loadspace with the seats up.... 7% less than the latest Mondeo. When seats are folded the Passat does then have a 10% larger loadspace and the Mondeo a bit more than 15% extra.
As 90% of the time our rear occupants are two small/medium teenage girls (plus one of their friends now and again) the C5 will be fine and the small reduction in loadspace will only be noticed for two weeks a year when SWMBO will just have to pack less toilet rolls for our Scottish cottage tour.
Edited by M.M on 10/12/2009 at 23:08
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I've only sat in a new C5 in a showroom and it felt much cosier than the old C5 my brother had a few years back. If it was to be a C5 it would have to be from the upper end of the range to get proper suspension!
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>>>If it was to be a C5 it would have to be from the upper end of the range to get proper suspension!
I thought about this as a previous owner of the older larger Citroens but in truth the spring models are still well reviewed for supple, quiet and refined suspension.... probably as good or better than anything in their class... so I didn't regard it as a problem that I would end up with steel rather than gas/fluid.
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as a previous owner of the older larger Citroens >>
In which case, surely you'll have to have the hydropneumatic!
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The truth is the Mondeo's been great for the past 18mths apart from fuel... it's a 2.0 petrol after years of XUD diesels... and the ride on it's 17" 50 series tyres is a rather firm experience.
So the very comfy C5 even on it's steel springs is still a big improvement. I will miss the self-levelling a bit though after the BX & Xantia estates which could be abused with overloading (bricks/logs/etc) on short local runs... oddly my Mondeo has it too but with the weird rear shocks that pump up/down with bumps.
However as I've said earlier monster load carrying tasks are over now so even that benefit would go largely unused.
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I would consider the Ford Mondeo, Toyota Avensis and Subaru Legacy. Look at the owner/reader reviews of these cars and you'll find very few faults.
Be VERY careful getting a 3 year old E-Class. The 03-06 E-Class had various reliability and build quality issues. Read Honest John's Car-by-Car page about it. HJ says "Too many quality problems prior to the 2006 facelift."
Edited by Jcoventry on 11/12/2009 at 07:52
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How about an alternative to the above the landrover discovery?
7 seater plenty of room for the kids lots of toys nice good ride height good size boot plenty of poke come in auto/manaul just fuel economy won't be as good as the above.
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I was about to wade in again and commit the cardinal sin of suggesting a 4x4.
Our neighbour has an XC90 Auto with the 2.4 D5 and it returns 35mpg, and has more than enough space for your 3 kids, and the associated paraphenalia. His is an '06 and it cost IRO £18k.
If an A6 is too small, maybe something like that, or a Disco/X5/ML might be the answer?
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If we're going to start recommending 4x4s, then I have a friend who's dad used to have a VW Touareg. He now has a '07 Mercedes E-Class, but he's considering trading it in to get another VW Touareg - he says it's his favourite car and the most comfortable he ever had. And comfort is very important here in Sheffield, where we have some of the worst condition roads in the entire world.
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And comfort is very important here in Sheffield, where we have some of the worst condition roads in the entire world
It must be a yorkshire thing just the same in leeds nobody care about us up north!
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Current Mazda 6 estate could also be a contender.
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I did have long look at and drive in an ML320. The 4x4 would be handy for the annual skiing pilgrimage to the alps, but not essential - winter tyres on normal cars have been absolutely fine so far. Decided that the marginal extra grip for 1 week of the year wasn't worth the penalty in fuel consumption over a 4x2 for the other 51 weeks of the year (I do 20k/year).
But the raised driving position and comfort does appeal ...
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Have you thought of an S-Max instead of the Mondeo ? Possibly better residuals (though neither are great), pretty much the same underpinnings, great to drive in my experience and has that raised driving position. Also pretty good looking for an MPV/
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>I had discounted the V70 as it is just a smaller Mondeo for more money, isn't it?
No. There's no D5 Mondeo, and no Mondeo with a Volvo interior. Both are significant distinguishing features in my book. If Volvo's designers have found the can of silver paint in the playbox, they've resisted the temptation to empty it all over the inside of the car.
As for toys, it depends how you like them; toys may look the same on the spec sheet but that doesn't mean they're equally good. Our 08 Toyota Verso can match my 52 Volvo S60 toy for toy, and even add a few of its own. But none of the Toyota toys - audio system, cruise, climate control - is as satisfying to use as its Volvo equivalent and this would make a big difference to me over 20,000 miles a year. If those are mostly urban, that's a lot of hours in the car.
The current V70 is appreciably bigger than the old one, which was a little snug in the back. Only you can say if it's big enough for you, of course - it would be for me, especially with the 'Family Pack' integrated boosters, which liberate foot room for children behind tall adults. It is front-wheel drive, of course, but I'm in the minority here that considers that an advantage.
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Yes, I drove and liked the S-Max and would most probably go down that route - if it had a spare tyre! I don't like the prospect of long trips into Europe and getting stranded in the middle of the night by a blow-out that a can of gunk would be useless on with kids and wife wailing in my ear!
WdeB - I will look at the new V70. I tried an old XC70 a few years back and thought the 2.4/D5 (is there a difference?) too agricultural and the steering a bit wooly. Extremely comfortable seat, though. But you are dead right on the toy front - I just 'know' that the Ford's toys will be less satisfying in operation that some other makers toys, and it's the little things like that that make all the differeence to one's enjoyment of a car. For example, the Mondeo Tit Xs have all the boxes ticked, but some of the plastics look like they came out of a Mk1 Fiesta Popular Plus that I drove many moons ago. The unflattering reports of Ford dealers' 'servicing' are also a little off-putting.
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No question for me, it would have to be the Merc E class.
I've driven the new Mondy estate alot and its very capable but its still a Mondeo.
The Merc will take the mileage better, it has the better engine, better quality interior and is quicker. Its IMO the best looking estate there is.
I will be looking at one nearer the £10k mark when/if my Alhambra dies.
If you are concerned with repair costs get a Tesco warranty.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20094534557...p
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E class is fine, as long as you avoid the pre 2006 facelift models. Read the HJ CBC report for more info about this.
I agree, Volvo V70 and Mondeo are quite different cars.
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If you intend to keep the car a while get the Merc. Also look in on used car warranties which can offset some of the nasty bills very well. I have a diesel Volvo V70 and it seems to cost more than my old CLK 320 at the moment. It's a good car to drive but Volvo sure know how to charge for bits and pieces.
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After a few more tests, I had a go in a 2-year old E280CDI Estate with a few toys (Comand, leather, phone wiring) and 37k on the clock for half the price of a new one. It went very nicely, had room for the kids and fitted 'like a glove'. Deal done!
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