>>I would suggest that was his get out clause (sorry)>>
In view of the claimed damage, I doubt it.
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Full details from VW are to follow on Monday, but initial summary is as follows...
- impact to front of vehicle
- lower bumper damaged
- aircon pipe broken by condensor
- radiator damaged
- radiator mounts broken out of front panel
- front panel damaged
- cooling fans touching engine
As he said the car had not been in an accident and there were no advisory items from the mechanics following the service I do feel the description of the car he provided is not representative. It has been in a crash and there was work needed to ensure the car is of satisfactory quality. They would have known about the clutch too, but Im sure he can put this down to wear and tear - but has however offered to meet 50% of these costs.. so accepts liabilty or implies this is covered by their warranty?
The aircon quote is over £300 alone to sort... and aircon was part of the description of the car, so should be in working satisfactory order under Sale of Goods Act? As should radiator, cooling fans etc, as car should be provided in fit for purpose condition.. failure of these would cause significant damage to the car?
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All sounds failry superfical & indicative of someone that bumps their car to park it.
I don't think its had a mjor shunt but a small one with a cheap repair. Its not unusual to find radiators hanging out of mounts & broken air con pipes, & displaced cooling fans.
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I agree injection doc its what i would call a small tup,its one of the reasons i never ever advertise a car has having aircon anymore because they can pack up at the drop of a hat
i feel sorry for the dealer he seems to have bent over backwards and no way would he have offered aircon if he knew it wasnt working as why would he? ,the clutch well the OP drove it so must have been happy at the time
cars=washing machines
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all useful, thanks, and shows my inexperience of cars .... hence why im on here.
Still believe that dealer would have known about these crash bits and clutch, none of which are cheap to sort even though superficial... and I was sold 'trouble free miles of driving', a car that hadnt been in an accident and had no advisories just following a service. would you not advise someone to have radiator and cooling fans sorted if you had just serviced the car and seen them accident damaged?
Might be my lack of knowledge here that is making something larger than it needs to be, but is £300 for aircon, £300 for clutch and £+++ for radiator, fan and other bits for car bought from dealer where id been told the car needed no work not too much to just swallow?
Maybe im missing point of buying from dealer here, i.e. taking the risk out of finding these problems after buying 'sold as seen' privately?
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I'm sorry to hear of your plight helpmeout, but at the end of the day you took quite a big risk. You say that the price was low, the mileage low, and the dealer only offered a limited warranty. Didn't this set alarm bells ringing, i.e. what's the catch?
As bellboy implies, aircon can pack up overnight for any of a number of reasons.
Are you sure you can trust the VW main dealer who has since inspected the car? They're quite likely to be playing on your doubts so that they can whack you with a huge bill to bring the car up to showroom standards. Can you get a second opinion from someone else?
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You got the car cheap without service history anyway, the dealer doesn't sound like a dodgy fly by night to me, he's already put the turbo problem right.
I think you must accept that there could well be some problems with a cheap car without history.
Why don't you have a chat with the supplier and let him offer to put the car right, before going in all guns blazing quoting legal chapter and verse, that'll only get his back up and any goodwill will vanish.
If you wanted an A1 VW showroom standard car with full VW service history there would be a big price to pay, and you still may well have problems down the line.
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If somebody hasn't bothered to service a relatively new car then it seems unlikely they'd have spent out to have anything else much done properly.
If the car was cheap I think I'd be inclined to live with it. If it was a full retail car at top dollar then maybe I'd feel different.
Cars with no history are, I'm afraid, cheaper for a reason.
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... a full retail car at top dollar .... >>
pd: Is that something defined in law?
helpmeout: note that some of the replies above (I think three possibly) are from people from the other side of the fence. So their views are valid, but by the same token the view from your side of the fence needs to be taken in to account too. Speak to consumerdirect people who should guide you on what the best way forward is. AFAIK, the Trading Standards people in Hounslow do an excellent job, and if you ask them about the garage in question, they should know if it is reputable.
Edited by jbif on 16/11/2009 at 09:40
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Thank you for all comments.
FYI, to put this into context, the dealer did tell me before I travelled to Hounslow that there was some service history - it was only when I got there that he couldn?t find it. He also told me the car was taxed till end of Oct, which I only found out on 28th Oct that it was only till end of Sept and I had been driving around untaxed.. hopefully this will not have been picked up by any ANPR cameras. There were also missing wheel nuts, brake fluid was below minimum, and some other bits that should have been picked up during their service.
Points re buying car with no history taken, and lesson learnt. Have always bought privately in the past with full dealer service history (last were 330ci and M3), and checked with dealer network whether anything was outstanding before I purchased (within the boundaries of DP, obviously). Yes, was hoping to get cheaper deal and understand that obviously resale value would therefore be affected. Thought was being thorough in getting cambelt done and additional bits by VW to follow up from service from the dealer. Just wasn?t expecting crash damage.
Yes alarm bells did ring, but when told no advisories, no work needed, just serviced, no accidents, 50k miles and from a dealer I took the chance. I don?t regret buying the car, and it is giving me exactly what I wanted as I do 1k a week? ave 60mpg and comfortable! However, when I buy from a retailer I do expect the product to be what it said on the tin, not with hidden damage albeit ?superficial?? looks like over a grand to put right to ensure I do have ?miles of trouble free? motoring.
I run two of my own businesses and have enough integrity to manage my clients expectations properly if the product has defects, or to ensure that what I?m selling is going to deliver.
I will pursue the dealer with the option for him to put the issues right, without all guns blazing initially.
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I can't believe the amount of people on this forum that say 'just put up with it' or 'well you were taking a risk', unbelievable, are you all French?
I would get back to the seller and in a firm but polite tone show him what was wrong and get him to put it right, Always stand up for yourself, always push for as much as you can get, but always be polite and civil.
On a related note, my boiler insurance came up for renewal this weekend, was going to cost £17.90 p/m. I phoned and said it was unacceptable, got offered 10% off. I refused and said i wanted to pay £11.00 p/m. Eventually got them down to £10.50p/m! I'm glad i didn't 'just put up with it'!
Edited by Zub on 16/11/2009 at 12:39
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................. are you all French?
Sacre bleu et zut alors! What are you implying about French people?
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He also told me the car was taxed till end of Oct which I only found out on 28th Oct that >> it was only till end of Sept and I had been driving around untaxed..
Was the tax disc hiding?
There were also missing wheel nuts
Is this a wind up?
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>> ... a full retail car at top dollar .... >> pd: Is that something defined in law?
Well, it is sort of, via the sale of goods act. However, it was how I would personally feel about it. I'll put up with all sorts of things if I know I got a car dirt cheap but if I've paid full price I expect it to be A1.
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quick note... wasnt dirt cheap! Was priced well based on lack of service history and dinks in bodywork.
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Dodgy dealer? Quite possibly, and if so desrves to be taken to task.
But he wouldn't be in business long if people didn't buy from him. Caveat Emptor: if it looks too cheap or too good to be true, then it probably is! It's a heck of a risk buying a scuffed car with patchy history for a low price.
The OP's last post says that he's actually quite pleased with the car, 60mpg and 1000 miles a week. Would you pay 750 quid more for the same car from a different dealer with the scuffs and dents removed? YGWYPF, IYSWIM!
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YGWYPF, IYSWIM
Absolutely. No doubt some will not care too much about the odd ding (or worse) in a car if it does all that is required of it and comes at a bargain price. Others will want their car to look the best, however old it is, and will pay top whack if need be. The awkward ones want to pay bottom dollar and get a perfect car - doesn't often happen except in a probate sale.
But that doesn't mean you can't save £££ by shopping round carefully.
Edited by Andrew-T on 16/11/2009 at 23:11
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Nickdm100 cars go down the auction line
97 havent got a full dealer service history
should they all be crushed then?
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What about the one that wants to pay the price for the car as described by the dealer, i.e. not been in a crash and unrepaired, just serviced with no advisories, many miles of trouble free motoring, taxed till the end of the month? I dont think thats awkward... just buying something from a dealer as described?
In my opinion, with my limited knowledge of cars, I would expect a dealer to give a fair and honest description of a vehicle, and advise in layman's terms on why its is priced as it is and what they would recommend as best steps in maintaining vehicle etc. I would have been much happier had the guy said, "the car hasnt got a service history, and whilst we have carried out a basic service to change filters etc, in my experience I would recommend that you get a free inspection at an approved dealer to check for any advisories that could affect the ongoing running of the car as we have not checked in detail for these. You should consider getting advice about changing the cambelt, as this is recommended every 60k miles or four years for this car and is very expensive to repair if it goes.... it may cost you a few hundred pounds initially to have this peace of mind, but this will help ensure you have many miles of trouble free motoring"
... and I still would have bought the car.
Thats what I'd advise if I was the saleman.. wouldnt sell many cars though!!! Might get repeat business!!! I'd rather that than the complete opposite I got. Its not like I didnt ask the questions.
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"...as described?"
I think you just have to expect over-trading when it comes to descriptions of used cars. I recently bought a Focus II privately, and put most of my effort into looking for private sellers, but did also look at some on offer by independent dealers. The quality of dealer stock, compared with the advertised descriptions, was pretty disappointing. In one case, "lady owner, FSH, fantastic unmarked condition inside and out" turned out to have been traded in by the said lady owner as nearside crashed/unrepaired and the subsequent repair was of very poor quality - rippled panels and metallic finish actually rough to the touch, signs of water damage inside the car, spare wheel and tools missing. Another was described as one owner, full Ford service history, unmarked etc. Turned out the one owner was a local dairy who used the car for retail rounds in a big city - it was a very, very tired car, with evidence of a front end collision (bonnet wouldn't open properly). Both cars were advertised in glowing terms and enthusiastically priced. From my point of view, a waste of my time and petrol. But I suspect dealers assume there's one born every minute....reaches for tin hat!
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What about the one that wants to pay the price for the car as described by the dealer
I suspect many traders buy at auction on the basis of a quick look-over, put the car up for sale after a minimal valet, and protect themselves against costly work demanded by the buyer with a rather threadbare 'warranty' policy. I'm still not clear whether you think the sticker price indicated an 'immaculate' car, or one with the dings you mention?
I would expect a dealer to give a fair and honest description of a vehicle
So would I. But as I said in another current thread, dealers peddle metal for a living, and only very rarely know anything about the history of the cars they sell. It is alleged that some histories go missing because they give too much away. It certainly seems that your car has been unfairly mis-described IMHO. Unfortunately you have to try and detect as many discrepancies as possible before deciding to buy.
Edited by Andrew-T on 17/11/2009 at 11:06
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