A colleague and I are planning a 10 day demo trip to northern Germany next month. It's just occured to us that most cars in Germany run on winter tyres at this time of year, but obviously our company van is on normal UK spec rubber.
What's the reality of the situation? Are we likely to have any problems over there? Should we be thinking of hiring something more suitable, or do we just need to be careful? Do we need chains? Thoughts welcome...
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I lived and worked in North Germany for many years and have no recollections of snow chains being used, certainly not compulsory. In Bavaria where the snow is deep and roads are steeper they are beneficial and are compulsory on some roads. The ADAC website may be useful, if you can read German!
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They now have a rule in place which means you should use winter tyres from October through to Easter.
In reality, it's once the temp. dips below 7C you should be using winter rubber. You will have a big problem with the Police if you have an accident and you are found to be using summer tyres, especially if they are worn.
Northern Germany tends to be more wet than snowy but if it gets a cold blast from the East then the wet turns to ice.
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Very doubtful you will need snow chains. I went to Austria last January to go skiing and even in the roads up to the resort we did not need chains.
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Snow chains are a PITA. You are stuck, so you have to put them on, which is no fun if it is wet and cold. You then drive a mile and when you join on to a bit bigger road you have to stop and remove them, and get wet and cold again. Only when you are in a very snowy region and you are only driving minor non cleared roads permanently people use them. But anyway you won't need them in the north.
Now what you should have is winter tyres, but you know that. As a privat person you may decide that you risk it with normal tyres as the tread is still good and in 99.9% of cases you will be fine.
If this is a business trip the whole complexity changes and I really would not want to be the person in charge who decides that summer tyres are sufficient. And I would not want to be the driver/passenger of a vehicle where somebody else made the decision that summer tyres are good enough either.
DinUK
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Just come back from Northern Bavaria.
All the locals have winter tyres, usually fitted mid/end October, removed Easter.
As you know, not only do they have a 'grippier' tread pattern for snow, they are also softer rubber so don't go as hard as summer tyres when it gets cold.
The rule as I understand it is that if you have an accident and have summer tyres and they are thought to have contributed to the accident, you have a problem.
So, even if there is no snow, if the temperature is low, your braking distance may be longer with summer tyres. On the other hand... summer tyres have more rubber in contact with the ground (less grooves).
Winter tyres are also noisier and speed restricted (not likely to be a problem in company van, unless it's white :-)).
Austria have just made it compulsory to have winter tyres fitted from 1st November to 15th April on all roads.
As an aside - I just checked Hertz hire car in Germany, they were charging £42 extra for winter tyres on a 1 week hire of a Focus. Strange (or rip off?) when they are (almost) compulsory. In defence of Hertz, I think most if not all of the others do this as well.
Which leads me on to another thought, what if it is compulsory soon in Germany? This will mean that a trip from the UK via Germany and/or Austria will require winter tyres = extra cost = something we don't really need in the UK so wasted unless you go there frequently.
Edited by mickeybay on 11/11/2009 at 17:23
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Oops, make that £34 for the winter tyres. Still a rip off by all hire companies that do this IMHO. Price increases with the length of hire.
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In effect the hire companies have to have 2 sets of wheels for every car in the fleet, if I read the rules right. This sounds like a bit of trouble and I guess one has to pay the price for hiring a 'legal' car in the winter. I never saaw chains in use in North germany in the 6 years I was there, including some hard winters; 3 weeks without the temp going over 0C by day and -20C at night - not much snow though - just VERY cold!!!
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Whilst winter tyres are compulsory here in sweden, they aren't required for visitors with foreign registered cars.
Winter tyres aren't speed restricted, unless you specifically buy tyres with a lower speed rating.
All the hire companies change to studded tyres during October, but I've not seen any charge extra. Trailers can be hired from most petrol stations, and they also change the tyres.
Edited by Dave N on 11/11/2009 at 19:29
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Are we not in danger here of mirroring the recent Health & Safety gone mad thread?
I think we need to concentrate on what the rules are as laid down by the German Govt. I don't know what they are but we already have various folks guessing from liability in the event of an accident to almost corporate manslaughter!! I am sure there were references in that thread to the fact that peoples ignorance and backside covering was the problem in many cases!
Would an employee be really expected to know the pros and cons of tyres? Would they really be held liable if they genuinely did not think about it?
The world's gone mad!!! Put slicks on it and take to Nurburgring and try and get Sabina to break the record in it!!
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Thanks to all for your input. I've read the rules, and had a look at the weather etc. for the time of year.
Frankly, I'm happy that we'll be fine. I don't see that it will be any colder than a cold snap in the UK, and just like in the UK, if the roads are terrible then we won't drive. I'm the boss, so that's no problem, there's nobody leaning on us to carry on if we shouldn't.
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Enjoy your trip and, if you intend visiting any city centres with your van, don't forget your umweltplakette.
www.umwelt-plakette.de/int_england.php
Edit: Just to add you don't need to buy your sticker from this website, you can get them from most main garages. Just be aware you need one if going into the green zones.
Edited by gmac on 11/11/2009 at 21:10
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Cheers GMac, we sorted that a few months ago as we work a lot in Germany.
Useful place the Backroom - I'd never have known until we got fined otherwise.
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I'm writing this mail from my temporary apartment in Hamburg. It's wet and windy here, but no snow. There is no legal requirement in Germany to have winter tyres based on the time of year but there is a legal requirement to have tyres suitable for the conditions. In practice the climate in northern Germany is much more temperate than in the South and winter tyres are not so widespread here.
In Austria you legally have to have winter tyres fitted from the beginning of November to the end of March and snow chains are considered an enhancement to winter tyres, not a replacement.
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