Something I've often wondered.
Haynes (and presumably others), completely strip down and rebuild a car to produce a workshop manual. I remember on the old style of manual they had a photo of a car on the rear cover (a Montego IIRC) as a bare shell on axle stands, with all the mechanical parts, including a completely disassembled engine with pistons, crankshaft, valves, conrods etc, laid out neatly on the floor around it.
What happens to these cars afterwards? Are they rebuilt and sold on as "normal" used cars? Could one or more of us be driving around in a car that has been reduced back to its component parts and reassembled since leaving the factory? What would such a car drive like, and what would be the implications for long term reliability?
Anyone have any clues/experiences to share?
Cheers
DP
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they were all rebadged as rovers
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They're sold on e-bay as "unfinished projects", normally with the Haynes manual included which explains why they never got finished! ;-)
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I agree with the sentiment !
Reliance on the Haynes books of fiction is a dangerous thing !
Haynes are absolute experts at leaving out those tiny but vital pictures or bits of info you end up really needing on a job.
They were bad enough on cars with 70's technology, I dread to think what they are like on newer more complex cars.
I tend to think that haynes are the garage owners friend, as they must have generated loads of business putting Haynes-led mistakes right !
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Well, a friend of mine used to work for a car manufacturer in the late 90's - fairly senior within the engineering / design team. He told me (but never substantiated) that it was common practise in the industry that when a new car is released by a competitor, that manufacturers will hire that car for a period - strip the car to see how they are built / how they solved certain problems, and will then rebuild it and give it back to the hire firm!
As I say, I've no idea how true it all is, but think of it this way.
Most cars are assembled by production line monkeys - having the car stripped and rebuilt by hand by experienced designers and engineers probably give you a more reliable car!
The real question is what they do with all those tiny leftover pieces... ;)
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it was common practise in the industry that when a new car is released by a competitor that manufacturers will hire that car for a period - strip the car to see how they are built / how they solved certain problems and will then rebuild it and give it back to the hire firm!
This kind of puts you off buying an ex-hire car!
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He told me (but neversubstantiated) that it was common practise in the industry that when a new car is released by a competitor that manufacturers will hire that car for a period - strip the car to see how they are built / how they solved certain problems and will then rebuild it and give it back to the hire firm!
I used to work for a large US computer co with a base in Scotland - they were always guaranteed a sale to AN Other Cumbernauld US Computer Co - they would strip and examine. Biggest laugh was when they had to call in the manufacturer to put it back in a working condition - they would then sell it on 2nd hand.
All industries buy competitors "new models" to see how things are done!
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It's very easy rebuilding a car from its component parts.
You just need the Haynes manual - reassembly is the reverse of dismantling.
Any tricky bits will be highlighted by the grubby paw marks on the pages.
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Manufacturers do not always do this themselves - a lot is done by third parties. They strip and catalogue entire new cars and then sell this information onto car manufacturers.
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I know someone who worked for ford in RD and they did strip other makers cars down to see how they ticked
They didnt rebuild them though
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I worked for a large American owned multinational design and manufacturing company (not automotive ) and all competitors products were purchesed and stripped down. At the main design centre all these machines were laid out component by component and detailed analysis was done to find out how each part was tooled, how much each part would cost to make, from the piece part suppliers product markings you could tell where the competition sourced their products and build up a picture of the logistics stategy, costs, profits etc.
I'm sure the automotive sector is no different.
Jacks
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Further to the mention of the third party organisations that strip down and catalogue all the parts from cars as reference material:
I read recently about two French brothers who have become the top people in this field.
Manuafacturers used to buy each others' models for strip-down and then moved on to donating cars to each other. Then these brothers persuaded some manufacturers to donate cars to them instead, to establish a benchmark archive that can be used by manufacturers. Apparently they've done lots of models now and were about to do their first dismantle and catalogue job on a heavy lorry.
As for Haynes, I've no idea what they do with their rebuilt cars. But I imagine they're put back into good running order and maybe sold via the grapevine. A select few might find their way into Haynes' wonderful motor museum at Sparkford near Yeovil in Somerset.
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I know someone who worked for ford in RD and they did strip other makers cars down to see how they ticked They didnt rebuild them though
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I understand in the 60's, Ford stripped and analysed a mini. They came to the conclusion that BMC were selling each one at a loss as they ncouldn't be made for what they were being sold for.
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He told me (but never substantiated)
Yes, this happens. Here's my experinece of it;
While working (a brief spell of work via an agency) for a vehicle testing company, a new model of German luxury car was hired by another German manufacturer, and brought in for evaluation.
The car was stripped to the extent necessary to instrument it to test the car's thermal management; I fitted over 200 thermocouples to the engine, the airconditioning system and the interior. The car was then testing in simulated hot and cold conditions while running on a rolling road.
After the testing, we returned the car to it's original condition, in fairness all scruples about renewing parts and fluids which needed replacing were followed, and if anything, the car went out in better condition than it had come in.
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I thought they went into the Haynes museum, which is well worth a visit.
JH
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Wow - a coincidence - we must have been typing about the Sparkford museum at exactly the same time!
There is a window in the museum where you can look through to the restoration workshop, but I don't think they do the cars for the manual there, it's more for the collectors' cars.
As well as exotic, historic and everyday cars at Sparkford, there are some oddities, like a Rover SD1 estate car - not a conversion but built by Rover. These were destined for production but were axed (stupid decision, if ever there was one) but a handful were produced for company use including by the then chairman Michael Edwardes.
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I read recently about two French brothers who have become the top people in this field.
Manuafacturers used to buy each others' models for strip-down and then moved on to donating cars to each other. Then these brothers persuaded some manufacturers to donate cars to them instead, to establish a benchmark archive that can be used by manufacturers
But this is illogical. If the manufacturers don't mind other manufacturers seeing the parts & processes of their vehicle construction etc, why go to the bother of making it first, then having others 'stripping' it down afterwards? Why not just publish a document (which must exist for their own production processes) detailing the information? This would also eliminate any errors in the 3rd party dismantling process & make the whole process much more formal, systematic & portable.
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>>But this is illogical. If the manufacturers don't mind other manufacturers seeing the parts & processes of their vehicle construction etc >>
That's a dangerous heresy a bit like admitting that feeding information to foreign spies is a necessary part of maintaining an effective deterent defence policy. :)
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