Hi folks. First of all this is my first post as I am new to the forum. From reading other posts regarding the pd engine there seems to be many people with a great deal of know how. Hoping some of you can help me.
I recently purchased a pd130 passat. Lovely car, very smooth. When inspecting the engine area I noticed a great deal of oil 'sweat' under a boost pipe connection. It's the pipe under the PAS Bottle and above some sort of chassis member. That's exactly where the join in the pipe is. There is a top layer of fresh oil on top of the 'sweat' and by the looks of it, it has been there for some time. I took a rag to it and the layer of gunk was quite thick. It is physically possible to pull the two sections of pipe apart just slightly but they do seem to be connected and not just pushed together. Also beside the boost pipe is a very thin pipe although I have no idea what that pipe is for. Is this the pipe that is prone to splitting I have noticed people mention?
My question is, should there be that great amount of leaking oil from a boost pipe that is after the turbo yet before the EGR? I'm worried that the turbo may be leaking too much oil into the engine. When I purchased the car the oil level was barely touching the dip stick!
The car was in for a Timing belt change and since getting it back it just doesn't feel as fast. Before, the Traction control light would flash when pulling away in 1st from a rolling start but not any longer. It is lacking the surge it once had. I have also noticed that the turbo is more audible since coming back from the garage. Not a whistle but a whoosh noise. Doesn't really sound like a leak as it's not a hissing sound but deffo more whooshing coming from it and it's deffo from the turbo end and not the pipe inder the PAS bottle.
You guys think the mechanic disturbed a pipe whilst ripping the front end to bits in order to get to the timing? Or perhaps the turbo is slowly dying?
Sorry for the long winded post but I'm a little worried and don't want to be faced with an engine running away and me having to try and stall it to stop it exploding.
Any thoughts or opinions greatly recieved.
Steven
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/10/2009 at 10:37
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Steven, Several points arise:
Buying a car with a sophisticated engine with a low oil level is a mistake. These engines are critical in terms of both type and volume of oil.
Some oil leakage from the lower connector to the intercooler is normal - this usually manifests itself as an oily joint and a stain on the undertray. The joints are sealed with "O" rings and retained by spring clips. Careful treatment of these is needed to avoid damaging the aluminium "barbs" on the connector pipe.
If there is a loss of performance and noise after a timing belt change, the work has been done incorrectly. The noise and lack of performance would suggest a boost leak - is there any black smoke? The front end has to be pulled forwards to change the timing belt on these cars with considerable disturbance to other areas. Careful reassembly is vital.
Check that the timing belt was installed correctly using the cam and crank locking tools and that the idlers and water pump were also replaced. If there is any white paint on the new belt or on the wheels, it was probably done incorrectly.
The PD diesel engine is a unit of some sophistication and remarkable efficiency - it is one of the very few IC engines on the road which will out-run a coal fired power station. There are no margins for error in servicing or maintenance.
659.
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Thanks for your in depth reply, 659.
Be honest, there was oil on the dip stick, just below minimum.
I thought perhaps I could wrap a load of gaffa tape around the joint to seal it a bit more. Crude, yet effective if done properly. At the very least it would stop oil forming around that area.
I believe the timing to have been set up properly. The vehicle idles perfectly they way it should and never misses a beat. Upon startup there is a small whiff of white smoke from the exhaust and if the car has been left over night, there will be a cloud of white/slight blue smoke left behind if I give it some beans when pulling away for the first time, straight after start up. I know that shouldn't be done, but I wanted to see what smoke came from the car. Anyway, once the first minute or two of running are over with, there isn't even a hint of soot from the rear end. The engine runs very clean. Even at night with head lights following the fog in my rear view mirror is almost non existant even when dropping a gear and 'kicking it's pink fluffy dice in'.
As the car was much faster before the timing belt/water pump change, I am sure that they have just disturbed a boost pipe. Are any of the boost pipes removed when getting to the engine for timing replacement?
After reading all this, do you think I should have cause for concern with the turbocharger packing up? The only real thing making me worry about that was the oil sweat on the boost pipe and perhaps the bluey white smoke cloud left behind after a cold start.
0-60 (on speedo) is around 10.5 seconds. That can't be right, surely?
One more thing... What noise do you get in your pd if you take the oil cap off when running?
Thanks again,
Steven
Edited by Webmaster on 18/10/2009 at 04:29
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not an expert on the 1.9, but was more used to the 1.6 turbo. These tiurbos did wear out at around 140K miles, subject to proper servicing of course. The low oil is a worry, why was it low? Does it burn oil? They will burn their own oil when worn out , the engine will still perform well though.
My tirbo 'ticked' when worn as the bearing allowed the fan blades to move.
I got sick of diesels and am back with simple petrol, no complications , better performance- but lower mpg.
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Bodging the charge air pipes with tape is not a good idea - if a joint parts suddenly a damaging surge will occur in the turbocharger. Remember these engines operate a variable geometry turbocharger in closed loop mode which means that violent fluctuations will occur if something comes adrift.
Some smoke on start up is normal with any diesel as excess fuel is selected and remains set until normal idle is established. The Garrett turbochargers fitted to the 1.9 litre PDs are reliable - most "fail" due to sticky VNT actuators and cam rings which often causes overboost - repair is quite feasible.
It's likely the charge pipes would have been disturbed when the front was pulled and this is where you should look first. The "weeping" joint left by VAG is actually a good thing - the last thing you want are significant volumes of free oil in the intake and if it can drain out as the car stands, so much the better. The VAG joints seal under pressure anyway - it's cleverer than it looks.
I would have thought 0 - 60 in about 10s would be about right for this vehicle - but if it's slower after a cambelt change, something is not right.
I would never dream of removing the oil cap from my PD engine whilst it's running. The engine is not specified to vent crankcase fumes directly to atmosphere and I certainly don't want oil droplets all over my (very clean) engine.
Check everything which has been disturbed and check the camshaft timing roughly by inserting the cam lock pin and observing that "OT" is next to the edge mark in the hole in the flywheel housing. This is not a substitute for the correct crank locking tool, but it will tell you if the belt is a tooth out. No bodging - ever.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 17/10/2009 at 23:56
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My PD 130 has a layer of oil gunge in exactly the same place; it's never bothered me. Mine can get the traction control light flashing in 2nd gear very easily so yours obviously isn't working properly.
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According to period road tests, the 5-speed SE model would do 60 in 10.1, and the 6-speed Sport a hair faster, so you're not far away. The perceived drop in performance could be from a slight loss of boost pressure.
Who did the cambelt change for you? Can you get them to check it?
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Hi folks. Many thanks for all the helpful information recieved.
I have often found that if you time a 0-60 and stop your stopwatch at 60 on the speedo, you will always get a faster reading than what the official information tells you. Reason being that 60 the speedo is never actually 60 in real life. An example would be the Volvo T5 I own an am trying to punt. I timed a 0-60 and got a time of well under 7 seconds yet the official information tells you something over 7.
With regards to the 'weeping pipe'... I had a crawl under the car tonight and noticed that there is no weeping from the FMIC inlet, yet there is at the outlet, as well as the connection under the PAS bottle which I mentioned in my earlier post. This would suggest to me that the o rings/spring clips are worn on some connections, and not on others. It certainly looks like Turbo to FMIC is fine, and I have to guide my attention to FMIC outlet onwards.
Does anyone off hand know if their car has a large build up of soggy oily gunk on the Intercooler outlet?
I think first on the to-do list will be to replace o rings and clips on all the offending connections, and see how I get on from there. In a realistic manner, I can't expect the garage to foot the bill for these items. As we know, things like this should replaces as a matter of course when working on this area.
I will be sure to keep you all updated on my progress.
Thanks again,
Steven
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My old PD130 Passat used to weep quite a bit of oily goop from the I/C outlet, I used to wipe it off once every week or so.
I also had a front end prang, which needed bodyshop attention. When I got the car back it kept blowing the I/C hose out of the I/C outlet, although the hose looked OK. A new spring clip fixed it. From this I learned that a new clip is essential if you disturb these joints.
I was told by the service manager at my VAG dealer that they replace a lot of the "elbow" hoses that connect the I/C outlet to the engine intake, as the hose gets softened due to the oil in it and either collapses or splits.
ISTR the hose is about £25, but don't hold me to that :-)
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Could the timing be out even though the engine seems to be running properly if not a bit slow? I mean it sounds fine and and idles fine.
Steven
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on the Passat the boost pipe runs across the front of the crossmember that has to be moved to change the belt. At either end are flexible hoses with the naff aluminium barbs and clip. One of these may be adrift.
When new, the barbs and clip pull up tightly but as the time passes the steel clip gnaws away at the softer aluminium and eventually they blow apart, usually at a most inconvenient time. If there is significant in-out movement at the joint renew it.
The oil is a normal phenomenon from the breather being blown about in the inlet tract by the shock waves or pulses from the induction exacerbated by exhaust gas from the egr system
These engines normally consume oil as it is a full synthetic with about as much body as spring water.....
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