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PLEASE NOTE:
When posting a NEW question, please "Reply to" the first message in this thread, i.e. this one. This keeps each question in it's own separate segment and stops each new question from getting mixed up in amongst existing questions. Also please remember to change the subject header.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 20/10/2009 at 20:23
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Not a question, a heads up. Some of you fellow BRs may not be aware that Microsoft have released a free security programme which is getting good reviews. I uninstalled the free software I was using and installed "Microsoft security essentials" a few days ago and my laptop is working smoother and faster. It auto scans, updates its "nasties" database and can remove any "nasties" it detects. Might be worth reading the reviews, it seems to integrate well with vista.
{Header title changed as per the "Please Note" request}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 10/10/2009 at 15:53
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Here's the Microsoft Download link:
www.microsoft.com/security_essentials/support.aspx
However, Avast! has proved very successful for me over a number of years and I'm reluctant to switch at the moment.......
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I've been installing this for customers. I think it works brilliantly as it just works in the background, no messing about with licences. The problem with things like AVG is the customer most often had to pay and then there is all the hassle with licences and signing up etc.
I just hope its not too good or I will be out of a job.
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{Header title changed as per the "Please Note" request}
>>
My apolgies DD. First time I have "headed" the volume.
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I have this on my laptop along with PC Tools free firewall.
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I have a broadband box connected to my Mac G4 with OS X Tiger. It has a USB socket for connecting an external storage device. When I put a USB memory stick in it the diagnostic page tells me the storage device is active but doesn't tell me how to access it. Because it's a Mac the USB key doesn't appear on a Windows-type list of drives available or anything like that. Unfortunately - as far as this goes anyway - I'm in France so my broadband box is a Darty. My friend has an Orange France broadband box and has exactly the same problem. Any ideas please?
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You will have to log in to the broadband router and configure it to share the USB storage. It will probably allow it to appear as a Windows compatible share (and therefore Mac compatible) or NFS (and therefore Mac compatible).
One shared you'll have to mount the remote file system on the Mac.
Have you got instructions for the router?
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Some devices (e.g. V+ boxes) have a USB port, but it is disabled and there isn't anything you can do. So unless you explicitly know it can be use it may be that it can't.
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Im looking at buying a lap top, and ive also looked into getting one through a mobile phone operator on contract.The thing im wondering about is can i use my own wireless usb at home so i can use the internet on wi fi and then use the contract one when im out and about as the offer is for 1gb per month.
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The contracts I've seen are £30/£40 a month for a £350 laptop.
You can buy a Vodafone pay-as-you-go dongle outright for about one month's payment.
Buy the laptop separately and you are quids in provided it lasts for a year or more.
Unless you intend to make loads of multi-gigabyte downloads on the move, but you have your home hub for that.
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Buying a laptop like this means you pay a lot more. As ifithelps points out, a Vodafone PAYG 3G dongle is cheap. And there is no time limit for the amount of data you have paid for (unlike others) so if you don't use much the £15 might last a couple of months.
I'd get the laptop separately too. Otherwise it might easily cost double the cost of a laptop alone.
To answer the wifi question - yes when at home it could use the existing wifi. And most/all laptop now will have built in wifi so you won't need to plugin in anything via USB to use this.
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Thanks the pay as you go is a good idea.That would come in handy when
visiting the parents they always want me to look up something when i get back home
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shadyarea, to answer the question I think you're asking, you can of course use a 'normal' internet connection, including at home with a usb modem, wireless modem router, cable modem, or what have you. If you already have internet at home, you can save your download allowance for when you are out and about.
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Cheers manatee thats the answer i was hopeing for
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Thanks for all the help and suggestions re my issue of returning laptop and backing up files.
Although my IT manager at work also agreed re just switching the hard drives, I decided to do the full Samsung Recovery Disk first of all and then try and restore this to the new laptop.
That worked perfectly (including itunes) and new laptop is working well including the letter s! ssssss!!!
Now I just need to wipe the old laptop of all info and return it within 30 days.
Thanks again for all advice previously given.
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To reply to Optimist's point in CRQ 195, I have now updated one PC from IS2009 to IS2010 and all is well. I have also installed IS2010 on two other machines with no problems.
I have noticed that with IS2010 some elements are now opt-in rather than opt-out which is better, i.e. if you don't have the banner ad blocker enabled it now doesn't nag you that your computer is at risk.
--
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What's the best spam filter? I don't mind paying to get the best. Just lately I've been getting a lot of fraudulent emails claiming to come from banks.
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What's the best spam filter? >>
Have you tried the built in features in OE6? But nothing will beat your using own brain!
Just lately I've been getting a lot of fraudulent emails claiming to come from banks. >> Yes, junk emails to my previous [current one is OK] email account reserved for this forum have started popping up again.
Edited by jbif on 13/10/2009 at 10:10
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But nothing will beat your using own brain!
There's no need to be caustic. I freely admit to being old and not computer literate.
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Better to have your system set up so all e-mails go into a junk folder. When you go through them you can set up which addresses should go to your inbox.
Hotmail works like this and does it very well. I get lots of bank spams - 5 this morning alone, but all go into a junk folder.
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I use a single, standard Hotmail account for all personal purposes.
It only lets through one or two spam emails a month.
As daveyjp says above, Hotmail shunts spam into a junk folder, not that I ever bother looking in there.
Edited by ifithelps on 13/10/2009 at 10:21
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As daveyjp says above Hotmail shunts spam into a junk folder
I find Gmail (from Google) very good if you're looking at online accounts.
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There's no need to be caustic. I freely admit to being old and not computer literate. >>
Sorry you took umbrage at that. No telling these days how people will react to a simple factual comment. I think Brucie was right, we need to lighten up a bit. ;-)
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I use Mailwasher Pro. You can get the basic version for free, but I've had the Pro for about three or four years, and have tranferred it to two computers.
Remember to keep the e'mail with your key or else you won't be able to move it.
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>>>No telling these days how people will react to a simple factual comment<<<
That is a problem with emails & forums - no facial expressions, apart from a smiley :)
I often try to inject an element of ark, ark, humour into most of my posts, but then I do live in sunny Cornwall and not op narth like :-)
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North or South coast Perro?:)
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>>>North or South coast Perro?:)<<<
Truro Pat, but I do like Nth. Cornwall - all the North coast really, from Pendeen to Morwenstowe on the border of Devon.
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I used to have nights out in the lorry at the rugby/football club in Truro:) I love Rame Head to Talland Bay and I'd just love to live on Looe Island.
Sorry back on topic now Perro, we're talking spam!
Pat
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>>>Sorry back on topic now Perro, we're talking spam!<<<
What is it with this ere spam then - I never, ever get any spam ... I have done though in the past but I'm always changing my cars, changing my house - I also change my ISP fairly regularly, I reckon I've tried the lot over the last 8 years!
I'm on plusnet at the mo & I'm locked into that for another year :)
Ya gotta be careful who ya register your email address with - I've just registered with photobucket so I'll probably be eating my words very shortly!!
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>> Yes junk emails to my previous [current one is OK] email account reservedfor this forum have started popping up again.
Yes, I just got one yesterday, a "bank" phishing one, after a long period free of them.
Regarding the query - I use Spamfighter; it's pretty effective with the filter on the severest setting, and free. Though I always cast an eye on the junk folder as the occasional legit mail gets caught.
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Have you tried the built in features in OE6?
I didn't previously know that OE6 had a "Block Sender" facility, but I've now found it so I'll use it in future.
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... OE6 had a "Block Sender" facility, but I've now found it so I'll use it in future. >>
And to keep your grey matter exercised and up to speed [ ;-0 ] , try these out:
www.eggheadcafe.com/conversation.aspx?messageid=31...4
www.eggheadcafe.com/conversation.aspx?messageid=31...4
www.insideoe.com/tips/rules.htm
www.insideoe.com/faqs/why.htm#rules
Edited by jbif on 13/10/2009 at 13:11
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I didn't previously know that OE6 had a "Block Sender" facility but I've now found it so I'll use it in future.
...although I wouldn't have thought that that particular feature would be much good against spam as the spammers are always changing the sender address.
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Forgive me if this has been posted before, I did search but could find very little on it.
I was up very early this morning (3am and I really must get out of the habit) and stupidly decided to upgrade to IE8.
I rebooted after the install and found all my desktop icons had moved, nothing seemed to want to co-operate with me and to add insult to injury my accessories folder ( with system restore) in it had got from the programme menu.
I'm running Vista Home Premium on here and windows XP Professional on the laptop.
I eventually managed to restore back to over a month ago and I got it stabilised and rid of IE8, but has anyone ever installed this succesfully yet and should I try it with the laptop and XP?
Pat
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I have XP Pro and installed IE8 some time ago. Never had any problems with it if I use it, mainly because virtually 100 per cent of my browsing is done using Firefox.
I do have the IEView add-on for Firefox, which allows you to switch to the IE rendering engine if you wish for certain websites; this is rare though. See:
addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/35
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I use IE8 on four XP Pro machines, it is great, I have Opera and Firefox installed on one machine for compatbility testing though use IE8 day to day.
The only problem I have had lately has been Flash issues on this site causing IE to hang.
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>>>The only problem I have had lately has been Flash issues on this site causing IE to hang.
<<<
Same here = XP + IE8, no probs apart from the flasher.
I also have Opera but use IE all the time & prefer it.
I've also downloaded the 2007 powerpoint viewer this morning = no probs!
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Well, it must be me and technology that don't mix then:)
Pat
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I installed IE8 on Vista64 Home Premium no problems. I quite liked the tuning available but after a rebuild a couple of weeks ago have not re-installed it.
It worked but seems a bit bulky compared with 7 so I have not upgraded this time around.
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I've just switched to IE8 for a few minutes to check out this website for any possible problems.
It works just as in Firefox, including the video section (Skoda Yeti), so it's puzzling why you should be having to stick to IE7.
By the way, a pal who checked out the Yeti a few weeks ago, was told by the delivery driver that if it had a BMW or similar marque badge on the front, the price could be doubled and no one would be dissatisfied.
My friend said he was very impressed with the car and that his other half had insisted that they forget about a replacement Honda Civic and go for the Yeti.
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If Bell Boy is reading, to put photos into Google Earth, you'll need a Panoramio account.
See www.panoramio.com/help/photos_google_earth
"Getting your photos into Google Earth
Many Panoramio users want their photos to appear in Google Earth and Google Maps. The Google Earth process is well defined and we explain it here. Occasionally, photos are selected for Google Maps." etc.
Unfortunately there seems to be a considerable backlog at the moment, but if you don't get in the queue, you don't get served.
I look forward to viewing BB's masterpieces :-)
JH
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They went over to new servers on 20th September, and also changed the uploading system, etc. Overall it been a complete disaster; classic case of Hutber's Law - "improvement means deterioration". Latest estimate is no new photos appearing on Google Earth for public viewing until first week in November.
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Samsung NC20 Netbook, running XP.
Comes with 1 GB RAM but I have also bought a 2GB that can be put in its place.
Is it worth doing - will I notice any difference?
Use netbook mostly for web, Skype and email with occasional Office programs, Excel etc.
Notice when using IE8, slower to open up compared to Google Chrome which opens much faster.
When using Skype my own video picture freezes after about 10 secs or so but not sure if that is a skype problem, webcam or whatever.
Looks like a simple unscrew, take one out and put other in but obviously slight slight risk that something might go wrong so is it worth it to try? What differences will I notice?
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Upping the RAM should make a noticeable improvement. As well as Chrome, have you tried Firefox 3.5.3?
Do you have one of the latest versions of Skype? These have brought some improved video performance. Also check the Skype video configuration from Tools>Options>Video settings.
www.skype.com for latest version (just install over current installation).
Edited by Stuartli on 15/10/2009 at 22:17
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I make similar use of my computer and upgraded from 500mB to 2gB.
Difference is hardly noticeable.
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XP 500Mb upgraded to 2.5Gb- little difference
Vista with a 2Gb upgrade - massive difference
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Your netbook has a Via Nano processor which is designed to be efficient and use little power it is not designed for speed. In your machine upgrading to 2GB RAM will make little difference, your processor is just too slow for a lot of modern demands. Netbooks with Nanos and Atom processors are designed for word processing and simple web surfacing such as checking emails and as a result they will run slowly on things like Iplayer, it will work but don't expect it to be as afast a desktop.
On the other hand anything with Vista will make a massive difference from 1GB to 2GB of RAM.
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You might know this already, but...
More memory will make a difference if you are currently running out of memory. When this happens the computer effectively starts using the hard disk as additional memory (the 'swap file'). Accessing the hard disk is a lot slower than accessing memory, hence the slow down.
But if you aren't running out of memory, it doesn't need to use the hard disk and adding more memory won't help. You can use the Task Manager to see how much memory is in use - Office applications will probably use the most, and obviously the more you run at the same time, the more memory is used up.
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Indeed, the problem here is that netbooks processor has such a slow clock speed thats unlikely to use any apps that will need more than 1gb anyway, its not going to be used for Photoshop.
Most my customers are novices and use their machines for simple tasks I am now recomending 1GB of XP (which is often over kill but 512mb is often not enough), 1.5GB of Vista Basic and 2GB for Premium. On a well tuned system it should be more than enough RAM. I only have 2GB on mine due to the limations of my motherboard but because it is good tune it takes seconds to boot Vista Premium.
All the netbooks I have used I have generally wanted to through them out of the window, people seem to be buying them thinking it will replace a desktop, they won't they are too slow for that. They are simply brilliant tools for writing that report on the train.
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Rattle, clock speed is not the only restriction - architecture of the processor is a factor too. As well you know...
The Athlon 64 was faster than the Pentium 4 despite running at lower clock speed. Then Intel caught up. Now the latest (faster) Intel processors are slightly slower than the Core 2 Duo/Quads in clock speed but faster in performance.
Just thought that needed adding. I know nobody can reply :-)
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OK, I have a load of music ripped to MP3 using WMP11 on an XP Pro PC.
I have more recently been ripping on another PC still using WMP11 and also XP Pro, when I burn a CD (for use in the car) containing a mix of the stuff burned on the previous PC and the new one I notice glitches/squawks on the some of the newly ripped tracks. It is not the CD burning application (Roxio) or the DVD-Writer because the tracks ripped on the other PC and transfered across are fine when burned on the newer PC.
This points to it being a ripping issue on the newer PC, perhaps a problem with WMP11 on that PC or a hardware issue.
One primary difference is that the newer PC has the OS and all applications running on a 10,000rpm HD with file storage on a larger 7,200 rpm drive, all nice and fast though I wonder if the glitches are caused by WMP11, which is running on one HD, ripping and saving to another drive via SATA.
Any ideas?
Thanks.
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I had this problem on an older PC, I found that if I tried to multi-task whilst ripping the problem was much worse.
I also found that WMP didn't help much. Try using one of the free alternatives like CDex. I find it a much better tool than WMP myself.
Ultimately I changed PC and then re-ripped all my music (all 500+ CDs, that was a fun week... :) and so I can't remember for sure whether getting rid of WMP solved the problem or not.
Have you tried saving the MP3s to the same HDD as WMP is running from to see if that helps?
Other things you may want to consider are issues with the CD/DVD drive that's reading the CDs, running low on memory, so experience lots of paging whilst ripping, etc.
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Have you tried saving the MP3s to the same HDD as WMP is running from to see if that helps?
No, thats on the agenda, also no reason to dump WMP because it has worked fine in the past.
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No thats on the agenda also no reason to dump WMP because it has worked fine in the past.
Trust me, once you dump WMP you'll wonder why you stayed loyal to it for so long! :)
Try combining CDex with iTunes or MediaMonkey for your libraries and you're laughing.
Edited by TheOilBurner on 16/10/2009 at 13:29
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I wonder if the glitches are caused by WMP11 which is running on one HD ripping and saving to another drive via SATA.
Could you try ripping to the same HD and seeing if that makes a difference?
EDIT: too late :-)
Edited by Focus {P} on 16/10/2009 at 13:01
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I can't imagine it's to do with what or where the storage is. Can you slow down the rip process?
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Can you slow down the rip process? >>
Thanks, tried that - and the burn process (not that the latter should make any difference because previously ripped files burn OK).
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OK, a few tests, the original ripped files play fine on the car Pioneer MP3 compatible unit though the files ripped on the newer PC feature glitches when played on the Pioneer even when burnt on to the same CD.
However both are fine when played on the PC from the same CD as used in the car.
Makes me think that the RIP settings on the new PC are incompatible with the Pioneer though I can't see anything obvious.
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i would be more inclined to think the recorder in the new pc is of poor quality when burning
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I doubt that, they are either working to the standard or they aren't. Tried different media?
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>>i would be more inclined to think the recorder in the new pc is of poor quality when burning >>
I doubt that they are either working to the standard or they aren't. Tried different media? >>
The problem is that the previously ripped files are fine when burned on the new PC and media, it is only the newly ripped files that are a problem hence it must be rip settings or perhaps the CD reader in the new PC, the reader that is being ripped from.
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I have received an email from the author of a text I am working on that is complete gibberish, some sort of code. As it is the weekend and he seems to be incommunicado, and I would quite like to know what the (apparently short) message says - either it is one or more quotes in English or an excuse in French for being late with some changes - I am wondering if there's any method known to computer techies for translating it back into French.
If anyone thinks they can, I can either post the gibberish or email it. There's nothing secret about it.
{moves to correct place in thread}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 17/10/2009 at 18:09
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If it is French, copy and paste the text into:
www.freetranslation.com/
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Stuartli: if it was in French there would be no problem. I want it to be in French. But it isn't, it's in some sort of code gibberish.
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If it's no secret, try posting it here, or see the Table of Content advice in this link:
winrus.com/cp_e.htm
You should also check if your mails are in Plain Text or Rich Text (latter will normally reveal formatted messages and attachments) from Tools>Options (may be listed as HTML)
Edited by Stuartli on 17/10/2009 at 16:54
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This is one of the messages. It would have been typed in French into the sender's email system. Something odd seems to have happened.
$a »?gk « àa^ »kqsdv
HJHo^zoihef a^jofpj c zrdfs,k qzkl !az »ibnv.
Marherzpa iopazn ev$zerbgla ) »mqzelbv » »ro va à)$a ».
Eaojzerop zf
Opew,dfhsdopoper(jobq,eopqr,opr ià* »bq,à ài(b,qrpà?a(
Iàh? »àé?(-&) »?uiçàt v »gk »(à&é
A) »kr,bleqslmkyàhé
Ayià)v (g)
A& »iotyv é
Aze*fdr*,oroejv,e*za.
M ;:, :!m*l, : :! , :;/§ ;qserok*, :! :!/§
TYhan :;yoursd :;:
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I've tried it with various codes and still no joy..:-(
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TYhan :;yoursd :;:
Looks like 'Thank' and 'yours'. If you open a Word document using a text editor you see something like this - bits of text and lots of funny characters which are the formatting information. Any chance it has been written using a word processor? Even if it has, unless there is an attachment you can save as 'text.doc' and then open using Word, I can't think of anything you can do.
Edited by Focus {P} on 17/10/2009 at 18:15
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I've met some teenagers that talk like that.
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I gave it to a Polish chap to have a look at.
I asked if he could read it.
He said he knew the family at that address!
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OK ... This is serious stuff, it is a message to Star fleet control from a Klingon vessel.
I can't divulge here what the message says, but if you email me I'll obtain clearance for you.
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It is indeed french, but its written in the 5th bottlle pernot dialect.
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>>you can save as 'text.doc' and then open using Word>>
I tried it as I stated previously in Word 2000 using a number of codes (as outlined in one of my links earlier), but without any joy.
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>$a »?gk « àa^ »kqsdv
Looks like part of a Postscript file to me.
Kevin...
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Looks like part of a Postscript file to me.
Did try copying stuff posted above into a file, naming it text.pdf and opening it with a couple of PDF readers, but they won't open it. As I said earlier, unless there is an attachment that is a valid .doc/.pdf etc. file but with the wrong extension that you can rename, I think you're stuck.
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If it is French copy and paste the text into: www.freetranslation.com/
I tried to get the translation of "sacre bleu" and it came up with "blue coronation"!
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It's even funnier to translate a passage from English to another language, then back again. This works spectactularly well with German
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like thank you for taking the toilet please come back soon? kind of thing?
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as many will know ive also had lots of weird emails since this site was compromised
i had one from a paper retailer yesterday and today i have this one
Petersen Plastics specialise offering me a job
be careful out there..................
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>>Petersen Plastics specialise offering me a job>>
These type of scam e-mails are very common and have been for years.
Which reminds me, I really must get around sending details of all my undisclosed income to HM Inland Revenue...:-)
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I must be missing out somewhere as I don't ever not never receive a single slice of spam.
I've been with my present isp plusnet for 7 months now but with one of my many previous isp's I got caught by the short & curlies, I registered for a *free* laptop on a market research website - I sure did get some spam from that slip of the mouse!
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I'm getting a few job applications sent to me. As if my email address looks in any way commercial!! Maybe they're playing on the sympathy theme and hoping I'll reply, so confirming the email address is valid. Then there's the attachment of course, goodness knows what may be in that. But in general my spam levels are low.
JH
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>>..so confirming the email address is valid>>
More likely your bank details so that the newly appointed European director's salary can being paid directly into (or more likely out of) his/her account....:-)
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if JH Towers was in need of a European Director, and I'd have to consult with the Finance Director, aka the wif, then I'd offer the position to you first. Parlez vous Deutsch? :-)
JH
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Only in the sense that I'd ask the missus for her half of the cost of the (expensive) meal...
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My new PC has a faulty hard drive and someone is coming tomorrow to replace it. I have a lot of personal information on it, e.g. bankling, messages etc., but the old hard drive has to go back. What is the best way to clean up the drive?
When I sold my old PC I formatted the HD -running XP. Could I format this HD, and how would I do it with Vista Home Premium?
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Formatting the HD is a waste of time. It can be recovered very easily.
If you want to keep your personal data personal, then use a tool like Disk Wipe, or one of the many alternatives.
www.diskwipe.org/
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Formatting the HD is a waste of time. It can be recovered very easily. If you want to keep your personal data personal then use a tool like Disk Wipe or one of the many alternatives.
A hammer!
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He's right but get a move on 'cos they run for a VERY long time. I favour the hammer method but I can see whay a supplier would want to see proof that the old one is dead.
JH
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Power Desk (free, and better than Explorer) has a Destroy option as well as Delete.
Don't know how good it is as I've never used it.
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Can you even access the drive via windows? If you download the ultimate boot CD there is a lot of free tools on there which will do the job.
There is no point on formating at all as others said :). I can press a few buttons go out for burger come back and most if not all the useful data is recovered.
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im a dariks nuke man myself but it took 3 hours to do an 80gb the other week
i got the link from stuarti years ago (i think)
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The best way to wipe data off a hard disk is to format, but into a different file system.
No data can be recovered then.
I see numerous 'ideas' for making sure that your data cannot be recovered and they all cost money and rip the average user off.
A method would be to install Linux (using any live cd off the web) and this will install a completely different file format onto the hard drive.
Even if you didn't intend to use Linux, it is still a good idea to install as there is no way to get your data back (from your original pc) once the hard drive has been installed with something completely different.
Also at the same time, you could use the linux live cd to pull data off the hard drive (backup your data) before running the install.
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i have linux and microsoft on the computer i am using now so i dont understand what you mean diddy1234?
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I don't get it either :) Especialy since you can split the hard drive up into many partitions which I assume you have done for you lindows setup.
I think the poster didn't realise there is a big difference between raw data and a file system.
Edited by Rattle on 20/10/2009 at 17:01
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Am I missing something but how can changing the file system make any difference? I can delete an NTFS partition, install linux on it then run a few command line recovery programs and get most if not all the data which was on it back from windows instantly.
It dosn't matter what file system you change it to the physical data is always on the hard drive unless you actually run a program which specically wipes every sector of the hard drive to a zero.
By simply changing the file system the raw binary data is still on the hard drive.
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The best way to wipe data off a hard disk is to format but into a different file system. No data can be recovered then.
Not true, unfortunately. The data still remains on the disk.
Even if you fill the disk with fresh data, until the disk is full (thus properly overwriting the original files) you can STILL restore the original data, although it would take a little more effort than normal.
Even these programs like the one I recommended above aren't impossible to overcome, but they're good enough for the job. A determined specialist recovery outfit can bring back data that has been written over many times, drives attacked with fire (or hammers for that matter) and all kinds...
However, to stop casual recovery, use a proper wiping tool (plenty of free ones that are fine for the job), be patient for it to finish and sleep happy.
Edited by TheOilBurner on 20/10/2009 at 17:37
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KillDisk is well respected:
www.zdelete.net/products.htm
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None of you have data that valuable enough to warrant erasing to 100% completely unrecoverable status. And it is possible without destroying the drive. Destroying the drive is cheaper tho on a one off basis.
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I'm sure we all have enough info on our hard drives that could be pieced together for successful identify theft.
Not wiping your hard drive properly is the same to me as throwing bank, mobile and utility statements into your recycling instead of shredding it.
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For that matter I am sure we all have enough in our cars :).
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