In my last post I posed a head or heart question. Head has won.
Now I have a three way shot out for the replacement and I am looking for any opinions/advice. My bangernomics used to be finely tuned (I even took a summer job at 20 driving for an auction house to get the inside tips!). Time has moved on and in the last five years I haven't bought anything older than a year....
The criteria is to be a second car, suitable for trips from North Cambridgeshire to Norwich, Nottingham and South London for family visits, big enough for trips to the tip with bits of trees, the occasional trip to the DIY centre and similar non-exciting journeys.
There are two of us and a dog but currently no little people (and therefore they are at least 9 months away). We have a month old i10 (excellent little car!) for the quick and simple local journeys. I don't want to spend more than £4-5k and would rather pay 4 as it gives 1 for work the car may need (or the holiday fund if nothing needed), but will not buy Ford, French or Fiat... I think it will do little more than 5,000 miles a year.
I want something a little bit more individual. Our Mazda 323 was mainstream but relatively rare as was the Saab (when I first bought it). Therefore no Ford Mundaneo's.
The three cars I am looking at are a Subaru Legacy (2.0), Skoda Suberb (1.8T) and Vauxhall Signum (2.2 Direct petrol). All 2003(ish), between 60 and 70k and have a FSH.
Car-by-car on HJ says I should consider in the order above, bangernomics suggests actually that order should be reversed for ease/cost of parts/servicing etc.
The Mrs thinks the Signum looks like the sort of car her 6 year old school kids would draw - and she has a point. The Skoda like a stretched Passat but the Subaru "interesting".
Does anyone have any experience or advice to offer? All gratefully received.
(Edit to correct the title - my t button is sticking)
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/09/2009 at 02:03
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Interesting question.
Rather than a Subaru Legacy why not have a look at the Forester. You will be able to get a newer model than the Legacy I think, possibly even into the 2.0XT (light pressure turbo model which drives beautifully). It is a small estate, so great for the tip and DIY, but also very comfortable and relaxing for the longer journeys.
The Superb has much more interior room than the Subarus (of any description) but is more mainstream than a Scooby. I have an Outback and if I see one Outback or Legacy a week its a lot.
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The Skoda like a stretched Passat but the Subaru "interesting".
That's funny, because the Skoda Superb is a stretched Passat. It's based on the version of the Passat sold in China where the European version is considered too small.
From your list I would consider the Subaru, but for your mileage the 3.0 version is far more desirable and must be as cheap as chips in the UK with the present tax regime.
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Well good luck. I had a Signum 2.2 Direct. It was OK, I quite liked it. My Mondeo is though, and indeed always was, a far better car but you don't want a Ford so.....
;-)
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That's funny, because the Skoda Superb is a stretched Passat
The first Skoda Superb was the stretched Passat B5 but the new one is based on a stretched Octavia. Therefore the same platform as the Golf and current Passat, albeit stretched.
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A Legacy estate would be my (totally biased) choice as I wouldn't have the dog on the rear seats or lock it in the boot and they're quite a rare sight on the roads and IMO classless. They cost a bit more to run but with your mileage it shouldn't concern you. The Signum is the only hatch so that would come second on practicality and they are quite rare too. The Superb is a big car with a monstrous boot and a decent dealer network.
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I have an 04 plate Legacy 2.5 and by chance I was thinking on the way into work today that I have done 50k miles in it in about 3.5 years and was thinking about how reliable I felt the car had been.
In that time I have had no failures and replaced two parts, the exhaust mid section (my fault for grounding it) and recently a full set of discs and pads which came to about £500.
The parts are I understand more expensive but one significant parts bill in 50k miles is a pretty good deal, and anyway, I'm sure Ford/Peugeot etc parts are not given away for free! So perhaps I have paid £100 more than I would with other makes but over 3.5 years that is nothing.
The Legacy had quite a big facelift around the 53/04 plate switch so shop around and try to go for the updated and look carefully at the parts bill.
Minor services at indys are OK. A major sevice at a main dealer will cost a fair bit but I don't think I'll have mine serviced at the main dealer any more.
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The parts are I understand more expensive but one significant parts bill in 50k miles is a pretty good deal
FWIW I was looking up the Forester in the CBCB and found this:
Subarus had second highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 217.72 v/s lowest 31.93) due to the high cost of individual repairs. Subaru 3rd bottom of Reliability Index for 2004 combining very high average cost of repair of £993.58 with low 19.82 failures per 100 Warranty Direct policies.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=376
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Well we have two Foresters in our family for a total of about seven years and have never needed any form of repair. The only costs have been service consumables.
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...combining very high average cost of repair of £993.58 with low 19.82 failures per 100...
Espada,
So statistically, some poor sap has been hit with a couple of thousand pound repair bills to make up for your reliable Scoobys. :)
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So statistically, some poor sap has been hit with a couple of thousand pound repair bills to make up for your reliable Scoobys. :)
I suspect that many of these high repair costs on the small number of cars that need them will be modified cars to suit the boy racers. Have you ever heard anyone on here mention any form of significant repair on a Scooby. The only repair on my Outback has been to removed green algae in the washer bottle.
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I suspect that many of these high repair costs on the small number of cars that need them will be modified cars to suit the boy racers.
Would they show up on the Warranty Direct figures though?
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who knows? All I know is that I have never met anyone who didn't swear by their Subaru rather than swear at it.
I cannot think of another car I want at present - hence the reason I have kept it for for longer than anything I have owned for 14 years.
I could fancy a Merc B-class (because of its size and internal space/layout) but can do without the gin palace prices and dreadful four cylinder engines.
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Of those, it has to be the Subaru. As suggested, Legacy estate, Outback or Forester, depending on what's for sale and your preferences in handling vs ground clearance and appearance in estate vs pseudo-SUV.
Legacy saloon is probably less in demand than estate if the boot doesn't matter to you - I assume its not a top priority if you're considering a Superb?
I admire Skodas as decently buit cars, and I've nothing against Vauxhaul/Opel, but a Subaru has remained at the top of my wish list since first I drove one.
Now, how do I justify getting rid of a Renault Scenic 6 months after I bought it :-)
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An update.
I went to look at a 2004 Legacy Estate 2.0 with 70k up, full Subaru history, 2 owners (first supplying dealer, second owned it from 4 months old to last month). Generally clean with some parking dings visible if you looked "down the line with the light", a small dig out of a bit of the passenger door interior and a finger nail size bump on the top of the bonnet. Drove well, everything worked, no sign of any accident repair damage, no sign of rust, no damage underneath, good tyres and no scraped alloys, cold climate control. It appeared to be a car used by someone who cared for it, but used it - the passenger door looked like a bit of wood pushed through the car just caught the bit of trim. Otherwise all clean and tidy so after some negotiation got to 4.9k with years warranty, new MOT, full service, road tax.
I think if I had spent the weekend of the next couple of months hunting up and down the country I might have found one with slightly better bodywork or cleaner interior, but they would have cost me more to buy, would only have been marginally better and what would the cost in time and effort have been.
Collect a week Saturday and while I am a little sad at selling my 1.8 TFSI A3, I am looking forward to the release and freedom of owning a reliable and relatively unique car that I am not hunting around the supermarket car park to "hide" it where the trolleys can't hurt it!!!
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Welcome to the club....and enjoy!
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Very nice. You will really enjoy it and there are about three of four of us on here who drive similar cars, so ask for advice whenever you need it.
You will find that the climate control needs setting on about 23C to find a sensible 'set it and forget it' temp. Any lower and its too cold in winter and any higher its too hot in the summer. It needs an occasional manual prod but pretty rarely.
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You will find that the climate control needs setting on about 23C to find a sensible 'set it and forget it' temp. Any lower and its too cold in winter and any higher its too hot in the summer. It needs an occasional manual prod but pretty rarely.
Are you aware that you can adjust the temperature while driving to suit how you feel on that day? :)
Climate control is wonderful cos it saves having to tweak heater controls all the time, but that doesn't mean it needs to be left at the same setting all year long.
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Sounds good. Let us know how you're getting on in a few months time.
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The Superb is not a good drive, not an entertaining, rewarding car to drive. The Signum is .... well Humph says it all.
I would er toward the Legacy however a Ford "Mundaneo" is likely to be superior to all.
EDIT: Sorry, just noticed you have bought a Legacy, sounds like a good deal!!
Edited by cheddar on 25/09/2009 at 14:26
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Thanks everyone!
I will check back in a few months once I have put some miles on the clock.
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If you need any bits for japanese cars, try here:
www.importcarparts.co.uk
I've not used them myself but was recommended by someone else.
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Well, three months on and I think I can comment on the Subaru.
I have done 1,500 miles - many more than I expected due to travelling to visit an unwell family member. I sold a new Audi A3 Sportback as having a 20k car sitting in my garage depreciating was a bad use of money when I use the train and push bike 5 days a week to go to work. The Mrs has a new i10 (bought on scrappage against our old Mazda 323) as she was not that comfortable driving the Audi (due to the little me sitting on her shoulder apparently whispering "don't scrape the alloys" etc).
The car has surprised me. It replaced a 1.8T petrol A3 which was much quicker in a straight line and quieter on the road. Before that I had a 150 diesel Saab 93.
The Audi was like sitting in business class - I miss the steering wheel which had this fantastic soft leather that I would catch myself stroking when driving. I loved the dash layout with the big LCD speedo and the ICE was top quality. The driving experience was such that this luxury meant that you were detached from the essence of what you were doing - driving. Yes you got a whizz when you floored it and it did 0-60 in 7.6 seconds, but you couldn't really tell what it was doing round a corner and you had to watch the rev counter as you couldn't hear where the engine had got to. I enjoyed it, but it didn't put a smile on my face.
The Legacy does. I love the noise the boxer engine makes - the Mrs describes it as "raw" and that seems spot on. The chassis is responsive and you can feel what is going on with the car and the road in a way that the Audi didn't communicate. The seats are comfy and the dashboard and controls well laid out. The centre console display above the radio looks rather 1980's while the stereo is basic and sounds rather tinny (although better than my 05 Saab 93 which sounded terrible). The AWD has proven useful a couple of times and very useful in the last two days of snow and ice.
Compared to the Saab? I liked the Saab looks but the fit, build quality and standard of trim was behind both of these cars. The Subaru (and Audi) dash feels cast of stone, the Saab dash rattled like it was full of pebbles. The Saab crunched through the gears when cold and the front suspension was noisy - I will stop there as I loved the brand from memories of my dads 900 and 9000.
Interestingly even though it is a big estate car it is fairly narrow - the stats say A3 1959MM and the Legacy 1730MM, in length 4286 to 4720. This means that the car is REALLY agile to drive around town and VERY easy to park. First time we went to the DIY store I thought "why do I have so much space in this spot" - even though I could fit double the bags of compost etc into the boot.
It is churlish to suggest that the Legacy is a "better" car than the Audi. It is a very different car, should be compared against a Quattro A4 and is probably more expensive from new than both once servicing and depreciation are considered. What the Legacy is though is a well engineered, well built car and the stats say it is more reliable than the German. Around here it is also far more individual - there are 6 Audi A3's less than 3 years old in the 5 minute walk between my house and the riverside park - and 3 more if you come back the long way around. There is one Subaru and its a Forrester.
If I keep commuting by train I will keep this car for a good few years. If I start driving every day I would think hard about buying a few year old diesel version instead.
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Subaru original fit speakers are notorious for being cheap paper-coned items.
The head-units are OK, so replacing the speakers with decent branded ones will reap a very noticeable benefit for perhaps 20-25 quid a corner.
It doesn't sound like you care that much, so you may as well just listen to the pleasing thrum of the boxer-4 :-)
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Do you know the size? Mine are loathsome!
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Do you find your Legacy rather loud inside in terms of road noise? I test drove couple of the last generation H6 Outbacks and was surprised how I noticed external noise compared to my old Octavia. I'm not sure if it's a problem of pillarless doors not sealing properly or just general characteristic of a car, but it's a big shame, as otherwise Subarus tick all the boxes for me.
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I must admit that my OUtback is not as quiet at speed as I would like. I have driven many 'ordinary'cars that are quieter which I can only put down to frameless doors and/or noisy tyres.
However I can think of no other car of the size that I particularly fancy.
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Subarus are generally nice cars. Bit thirsty though. Very reliable although parts can cost a fair bit when you do need them. Non-turbo cars from about 2006 had a much more powerful 2.0 engine (four cam).
I worry that Subaru are sinking in the UK. since the new impreza is hardly selling at all a lot of thier dealers have closed up. Dealers are few and far between in some parts of the country.
Skoda Superb is also a very good car. Not a realible of good to drive as the Subaru, but more economical and parts are dead cheap and easy to get when you do need them.
In my line of work you tend to look at part cost and availability when evaluating a car.
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All Subarus are quite high insurance group for young drivers. I think the Legacy starts at 11 and goes up from there depending on engine size, etc. When I'm a bit older I will consider a Legacy, as they are very nice. But I don't plan on buying another car for about 10 years, so who knows if there will still be new Legacy models coming out in 2019... (or whatever their equivalent offering will be at that time).
I very rarely see new Subarus on the road, but see new cars on the roads here from every other manufacturer all the time.
Edited by Jcoventry on 20/12/2009 at 17:44
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Yea, we used to get a lot of Subarus a few years ago, but not seeing so many lately. We have one regular customer with a Legacy saloon 3.0, and until recently a lady with a 2.5, but she sold it recently. We get a few Impreza turbos through for MoTs. Our local dealer (7 miles away) closed so now its about 30 miles to nearest dealer and they never have anything in stock.
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Yea we used to get a lot of Subarus a few years ago but not seeing so many lately.
If you worked in a petrol station you would see more Subarus!!!
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Answer to the noisy question.
It is fine if cruising at 70, no louder than the Saab but not as hushed as the Audi.
At 77 it starts getting louder, but I would never go any higher as that would be illegal... I suspect if you did and as you went up the rev range it would become louder.
It is much quieter around town than the Diesel Saab ever was.
I think the outback uses different tyres and in my experience that is the thing that creates the noise these days.
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