This NOT what it is usualy is. I never use it. My MP is also behind this supporting this but I wondered if anybody knew anything which would speed things up.
Local traders are trying to get the car park owners to change their attitude but they are refusing.
Basicaly people are charged £1 for the first hour to use the car park, but now they are charging people just for driving through. Before the preicent was built cica 1970 (Ted will probably know the exact date) it was a local road with houses on both side, that road is now the car park road.
We are convinced something must be ilegal here. Local roads round the car park are now dangerious to drive to because of all the ilegal parking because people refuse to use the car park.
The car park uses ANPR and is this an ilegal use of it? You enter then enter your neg number at the machine then if you enter in peedo code:-
If number plate = entered then don't fine
If no number plate entered send out fines for all drivers.
It just sinks of a money making racket.
There is lots and lots of shops here and this is the only car park, there is also lots and lots of offices. We about 8 years ago lost one big carpark for a block of flats. There is a Morrisons just down the road also in the village centre and now that gets so full it causes problems for their shoppers as spaces are now hard to find.
Sorry I am just in a rage.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/08/2009 at 20:07
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Hi Rats,
Strangely enough, I was just going to post about this, using the previous thread.
There are two items in the paper referring to this.
The first, a pensioner who has just driven through as a short cut. He's not going to pay the £60 and is willing ' to go to jail ' over it
The second, who wrote in, a disabled pensioner who parks just to get his prescription from Boots, about 50 yds away, has had a few £60 ' fines ' With a blue badge
The first has enlisted the support of a local MP, who is photographed with him.
I cannot believe that an MP does not know the law on private parking and has not bothered to research it before getting into the paper. I have e-mailed him to appraise him of the situatiion.
I have the phone number of the second but he has been out when I have phoned. I'll try again later.
I don't think there's any criminal activity here by the PPC, The system just can't differentiate between parkers and those who drive in, decide not to stay and drive out again.......an immoral and sneaky system, I just wish the local paper would be more help and publicise the law...I'll be ringing them in the morning.
We ought to get a campaign going, Ratboy, perhaps now the MP is in on the act something might happen.
Watch this space.
Ted
Edited by 1400ted on 13/08/2009 at 20:33
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It is a tricky one, John Leach cannot openly say don't pay if you get a fine otherwise the system would become a shambles but I think they could word it like seek free legal advice from where ever if you do get fined.
I a few times I have been to car parks realised its too full and gone out again. I wonder how long you have to stay in the car park before you get fined?
For those that don't know the story delivery drivers have been fined too.
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I found something else out tonight, Rats.
I spoke with the guy who got one nipping in to Boots. He has taken advice and has not paid...and isn't going to.
However, he got his ticket, through the post, not on the car, in the evening when all the other shops and offices were shut. It looks as though the camera is on all the time, whilst there is light. As you know, we have over 30 wine bars, etc in the village and I'm sure customers will be parking there after hours'
The PPC must be raking it in.
I don't see why the MP cannot say anything, after all, he's not telling any lies or giving out misinformation. Any BRs out there MPs ?
Ted
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why not just shop elsewhere?
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It is not that simple. It is a large suburban shopping centre and its extremely popular. The nearest competing place is probably Stretford and I know a few people have gone there instead.
There is certainly a very large night life developed in the last five years in the area but its more wine bars and food places. I guess the town has become a victim of its own sucess and the council has failed to realise just how many people will own cars in the area.
I am sure people won't mind paying 50p an hour but its much more expensive than that.
The tickets are based on an ANPR system so probably all automatic. I wonder if this is a legal use of the system?
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just shop locally
i had the nicest carrots ever from my local grocer last night,he even put the name of the farm and town on the price bar (10 miles away)
i dont go in for namby pamby shopping malls or rip off wine bars smuzch
i prefer local shops for local people and my local club
use them or lose them
gee i even walk there
car not needed
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I don't remember it but my mums family have lived in the area for ever and I am into local history so have seen all the pictures. It used to be a lovely Edwardian village then this shopping centre was built reuining a large part of it. The least they could do is give us free parking as compensation.
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Well, BB, people are now and that's just the point, my pal, who has a small clothing shop there is almost out of business since these charges came in. There is also a large local DWP office on the same site with lots of people, who have been used to free parking for the last 45 yrs, not noticing the inadequate signing and getting caught.
The shops will wither and die in due course. Shoppers will not come back and will go to the Trafford Centre where it is free.....it's human nature.
Ted
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Not to mention lack of parking at the health centre. A few of my elderly customers have complained they have to now pay a fortune to pay just to visit the doctors. Also opposite the shopping centre is a large school, so now there is a lot of ilegal parking right outside the school (a lot more than they used to be).
I think the area is quite unique as its mostly a residential area but with a load of very popular shops in the middle of it. It is not a town centre.
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And rightv opposite one of the entrances, the biggest funeral diectors in Manchester with clients coming in in the van and leaving by the 'Black Line ' fleet. Ted
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Nobody has mentioned yet that these are not "FINES".
They are unenforceable bits of rubbish.
Go ahead, ignore it, and tell EVERYONE to ignore them. They'll pester you with a few letters and empty threats of court action then they'll go away once they realise you're not a sucker to pay up.
Anyone in doubt, just read up at www.pepipoo.com and click on the Parking section.
If nobody pays the parking company will go bust and that's a win win!
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Well said wbm00 but there's a leap of faith required that the PPC can't or won't come around with the Police and drag you off to jail. Some people just aren't comfortable with that risk.
Lead by example. If some of us challenge the PPC, post copies of letters here or on whatever forum is appropriate and present evidence that they can be challenged and beaten then more people will do it.
Good advice here: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=77...6
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I think I have got them. I know quite a bit about the DSA act 2005 as I used to work as a CSS coder on public sector websites. None of the pay and display machines seem to be accessible to a wheel chair. You have to go up kerbs to get to them all.
There is also no staff on hand to help.
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How come the parking company can get hold of someone's address from knowing the details of a number plate. Isn' that a breach of the Data Protection Act on someone's behalf?
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How come the parking company can get hold of someone's address from knowing the details of a number plate. Isn' that a breach of the Data Protection Act on someone's behalf? >>
Google, DVLA and the ICO [www.ico.gov.uk/ ] are your friend.
{link amended as the ']' right at the end was stopping it from working}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/08/2009 at 19:46
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I think the DVLA will give details to anyone with a couple of quid and a reason to know.
Not a good idea, IMO, when these people are operating on the fringes of the law.
A further point, cloning. I have a LWB Vitara, I pass an identical one, same colour and year, most days parked in a road a few hundred yards away. Nothing to stop me asking DVLA for owners name and address on spurious excuse of 'a passer by gave me the reg no as he clipped my car in Morrisons ' Now there are 2 Arnold Thrutchbuckets driving around in identical cars.....his car ! Number plates no problem. I even know if he's insured. I can speed everywhere and he'll be banned.
Ted
Edited by 1400ted on 14/08/2009 at 17:38
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The ico site says "reasonable cause" includes "To trace keepers who have parked on private land without paying the parking charges". However in the discussion here it is not always the keeper who has parked, so that clause does not apply.
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The ico site says "reasonable cause" includes "To trace keepers who have parked on private land without paying the parking charges". However in the discussion here it is not always the keeper who has parked, so that clause does not apply. >>
In which case, lodge an official complaint as per instructions on the ICO website. The more of us do so, the better the chances of the ICO removing or sorting the anomaly of keepers being chased for the actions of drivers.
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I never bother to pay the parking charges in retail car parks. I get 'penalty notices' every now and then but I always ignore them. I have saved a lot of money doing this.
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My local Sainsbury's has evidently engaged a scam outfit for enforcing 'Mother and Child' and 'Disabled' Bays in the Car Park. 'Offenders' against the rules will receive a 'Parking Charge Notice' for £50. Wonder why those initials are 'PCN'. Might it be to make it look like the real thing? It really is time that this whole nonsensical business was properly sorted out. By all means enforce the rules but fake fines and threats along with the exorbitant charges are really not on.
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