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Lets all volunteer to do our stint. A nice nap in a deckchair by the side of the road, lovely.
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of course all the tickets issued will have to be chalenged in court as I am sure these people will not follow the correct guidelines when setting up and using these guns. if you see anyone using one of these take a picture of them and the surrounding area. you will see they just like the police will be hiding behind things in order not to be seen by the motorist. this is illegal. also if used where no sign is in evidence that speed guns are in use. this is also illegal. read up on the police guide lines on the use of speed guns. even they break the law to try and catch people out.
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THERE WILL BE NO TICKETS TO CHALLENGE !!!!
Speeding motorists will get letters from the Force in question that's all.
Edited by Pugugly on 23/07/2009 at 19:21
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But will the car have a "marker" put on it in a database for future harassment?
Edited by Old Navy on 23/07/2009 at 20:32
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Wouldn't be so sure. The letters make it clear that should you be stopped for speeding in the future, this event will be taken in to consideration should the matter be put before the courts.
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Have you seen a letter ? - anyway it would be inadmissible.
Edited by Pugugly on 23/07/2009 at 20:40
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Googling as we speak. There was one floating around a motoring form but it was about 18 months back
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The trouble with police forces (and other public bodies) is that to get anywhere, you have to come up with ideas. Even if there were no more ideas left in the whole wide world, you have to think of something that will resonate with the chiefs and get you noticed.
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Its not a new idea been around for the last 5 years at least - not done well anywhere from what I remember reading.
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Trawling through Humberside's Website you can see that speeding is a constant in what local residents want the Police to address - so it looks like the local Police are responding to what people actually want.....so, maybe, just maybe this might be the way to do it.
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If the locals think that speeding is a problem, traffic calming is a better solution than vigilantes, and it works 24/7.
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Then you'll have everyone moaning about speed humps !
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Tough, shouldnt complain, and it doesnt tie up police resources.
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Gonna say re humps!!
I'd much rather have Cpt Mainwaring wannabees aiming hairdryers.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 23/07/2009 at 21:33
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More info on this subject, this time from the Norfolk
tinyurl.com/krzkmq
'Offending drivers are logged and contacted by letter in the first instance. After a second offence they are again warned and their vehicle targeted for enforcement.'
Targeted ?
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Some Forces are putting together intel packs on so called "top ten" bad drivers i.e. those that draw attention to themselves through S59 notices and motoring offences. Basically to take bad drivers off the road along with the cars they drive. Don't see anything wrong with that.
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Neither do I but as we have seen from the attitudes of some law enforcement officers, they won't stick to the really bad boys . It will be downgraded and downgraded to inc just about everybody as forces struggle to reach government conviction targets.
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Trawling through Humberside's Website you can see that speeding is a constant in what local residents want the Police to address - so it looks like the local Police are responding to what people actually want.....so maybe just maybe this might be the way to do it.
Till the residents find that they are the ones mostly getting done, then it will be whinging letters to the local paper about catching rapists, murderers etc.
It is amazing the number of people who think speeding means doing fifty in a thirty and they are fine as they trundle through at their normal 35-40.
Edited by Robin Reliant on 23/07/2009 at 21:35
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You're right - that happened in our village - how we all laughed ! What it boils down to is that people have no real clue what they want Policed and its always the usual suspects that turn out to "set the priorities" for the Police. Reading the local papers in various parts of the country it becomes quite apparent.
Edited by Pugugly on 23/07/2009 at 21:38
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'Offending drivers are logged and contacted by letter in the first instance. After a second offence they are again warned and their vehicle targeted for enforcement.'
Targeted ?
Its all hot air, spin, gimmick or whatever you want to call it. You are either nicked for speeding or you are not and that includes speed seminars. No such thing as a 'caution' only words of advice.
Edited by Fullchat on 23/07/2009 at 23:21
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A few months ago a Police Officer pointed a speed gun at my car.
All I saw was an intense red point of light from the speed gun.
Firstly, its a pretty odd way to improve road safety by shining laser light into driver's eyes.
Secondly, if the Police make mistakes like this, I certainly don't want unpaid volunteers doing the same thing.
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Hand held speed detection equipment does not emit any visible light/laser. So you were either dreaming it or there was a rifle/pistol barrel under it.
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>>Hand held speed detection equipment does not emit any visible light/laser. So you were either dreaming it or there was a rifle/pistol barrel under it.<<
It was his second offence, he was obviously being "targeted".
:)
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Trawling through Humberside's Website you can see that speeding is a constant in what local residents want the Police to address - so it looks like the local Police are responding to what people actually want
Exactly the same here in Northants. Top of the list in all the suburbs and commuter villages is speeding.
We've also had what is known locally as community speedwatch in this village. Run by the same stalwarts as man the Parish Council, clear the footpaths and maintain the churchyard. Those logged over the limit got police letters except for the two clocked at 50 who got a home visit as did multiple offenders.
Not seen them out recently - either it's gone out of fashion with the police or the volunteers got bored with it.
EDIT - like in Manatees place many of the offenders also live here!!
Edited by Bromptonaut on 26/07/2009 at 15:28
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This has been done here. What was interesting was the number of locals found speeding who when spoken to were more or less indignant and thought the gunners should be concentrating on the non-locals!
There's one road here where the traffic comes off a NSL, through about 200yds of 40 into a 30 which is narrow, with houses on one side directly on the road - no gardens or footpath. Traffic is often well above the limit at this point. The volunteer group asked permission to use the gun there, but were refused because the gunners would not be readily visible to the drivers. The police were asked if they would do some enforcement there, but declined on the grounds that it would be too dangerous...
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Sounds just right for a camera then, M... just before the narrows?!
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So two options available. Have your Scamera van positioned just inside the start of the 30 mph zone and protect those that are in the zone or at the very end of the zone where the speed limit changes to a faster one and the people you catch have all ready created a risk to those in the lower limit area.
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I know that about 2 or 3 Chief Constables ago Northumbria Police had a problem in that local residents were complaining that police officers were speeding on the approach to Police Headquarters in Ponteland (quite a smart little area) in their personal cars on the way to and from work.
The CC setup a covert speed camera and captured everyone who broke the speed limit on the approach road, I can't remember the exact numbers, but he eventually held a public meeting to address the issue (and of course all of the complainers were there) they got a nasty surprise when he revealed that almost everyone caught by the speed camera was actually a local villager, the complainants suddenly dropped the issue.
Anyway, I won't have a bad word said against them, I just had a brisk drive home tonight, I was quite enjoying myself actually when I entered a roundabout on the A1018 rather enthusiastically to find two of Durham's finest 3 Series parked on an unused approach lane. I made my exit from the roundabout in a smooth and orderly fashion with correct lane discipline and use of indicators but was unable to remove the erm, briskness, from my approach. Much to my pleasure neither of them followed me, they obviously recognised that I was still safe and within the limit. :-)
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i've been to public meetings in the past, the ones where local people turn up to liaise with the police to set their local priorities (nowadays it would be with 'safer neighbourhood teams'). You spend half your time trying to prevent a 'one issue' person trying to take over the whole proceedings..and the other half trying to inject something worthwhile into the discussion.
...then at the end of it...you have the 'issues' for that area...the ones that the police and local authority will pledge to iron out, because local people wish it so...and those priorities invariably are:
1, dog fouling
2, cycling on the pavement
3, speeding
trouble is, in an area that might have say 20,000 residents, only 12 -15 will have turned up for the meeting and invariably a noticeable percentage will have been elderly. Representative of what the local community wants?
What about the burglaries, street robberies, thefts from shops, etc....unfortunately that falls on deaf ears
dog doo-doo should be the local authority, not police. Cycling ought not to be a priority. Speeding maybe, but the comments above are all relevant.
In an ideal world true local democracy sounds great. In reality you're better off leaving it to the local police chief to set priorities, having all the facts and no ulterior motive...and the day we have elected mayors directly fiddling with it or elected police chiefs..then there'll be politics injected into it as well...deep joy.
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www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00b2glh/Traffic_Cop.../
Might be worth some time viewing this - gives a nice and timely perspective of the problem !
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Westpig - the proper manner of community engagement (straight from the NPIA's original neighbourhood policing model) is for 'Key interested nominals' (people who represent the views of those in their community) to come to a 'neighbourhood action panel' which, as you say, decides the 3 priority issues. This panel was never intended to be chaired by the Police, nor were they there to provide all solutions. Issues that cannot be dealt with by the community should be taken forward to a 'Joint action group' with reps from the CDRP - from where intervention and enforcement type solutions are tried. T & CG should be addressing burglary etc.. and can have non CDRP people sitting in, but rarely does, as you doubtless know.
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Translation.
NPIA = National Policing Improvement Agency.
CDRP = Crime and Disorder Reduction Partnership (LA/Police/Fire Service/CPS etc) known as the CSP in Wales (Community Safety Partnerships)
T&CG - Tasking and Co-ordination Group - does what it says an internal Divisional Police meeting designed to identify crime trends in the area of Priority Crime in a particular area.
When NIPA starts talking about "nominals" instead of "people" you can bet your bottom dollar that its a Dream Factory staffed by pseudo academics.
I have a particular interest in this area of work - my own community's priorities were set by villagers (around twenty) with the local PCSO - If you trawl through the Police websites and look at village notice boards this is the pattern across the country. NIPA is in a world of its own.
Not getting at you, but "Key Interested Nominals" ? what a load of piffle - along with mysterious acronyms exactly what turns people off - when will these people get the message ?
Edited by Pugugly on 26/07/2009 at 11:16
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The 'three priorities' system works quite well, according to a residents' association chairman I spoke to a week or so ago.
Some of their recent priorities included off-road quad biking, discarded drugs needles and general anti-social behaviour in one street.
So for them, at least, it's not all dog mess and speeding.
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Pug - there's absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that they're in a world of their own. I never said I thought any of it was good!! I get frequent NPIA 'newsletters' and spend the next ten minutes howling at the English within. The dreamy, meaningless phrases conjured up by people with no background in Policing whatsoever. I had to 'entertain' two of them for a day recently. They wouldn't reveal their agenda and so they got a good run down of what we were doing. I teased their backgrounds from them - nothing to do with Policing. I got feedback that they'd had a really good day! Well, thanks very much - perhaps they imagined I had nothing better to do for a day, which couldn't be further from the truth. No criticism or comment or suggestions, just that they'd had a good day. Totally infuriating. They really do dream things up for us to implement. No wonder the public lose faith, we are driven by a dream factory. Consultation my pink fluffy dice!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 26/07/2009 at 19:25
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