I thought this might justify a new thread.
On another thread a poster is choosing between a Fiesta and Hyundai as new car choice.
They are probably both good cars, and will no doubt give good service to whoever buys.
For us there would have been only one choice here, and that would have been the Hyundai, the unlimited mileage 5 year warranty would have clinched the choice for me.
On another long running thread another maker's very popular small car has been having engine problems at approx 4 years old, though usually well under the 60K miles warranty cut off.
The same maker has not been particularly helpful apparently by the reports many are making. I personally wouldn't have one of their cars again following this little affair.
I'm quite surprised that more makers haven't had to match Hundai's warranty lead to keep their sales up, the only one that springs to mind (apart from Kia of course) is the 5 year offered on the Fiat Bravo.
Now is this an age thing, are the buyers of cars with short warranties younger people maybe more interested in image, whereas the older driver maybe thinks more long term, or are more factors at work here?
What do you think?
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It was a huge swing in the favour of buying the misses Sirion. It meant that for all of the 4 years she is paying the car off, she should have no unplanned bills, just servicing, which is fixed price and they have already supplied us those figures. We dont actually expect it to go wrong really but its nice knowing we have the backup and the budgeting.
Subaru, Daihatsu, Hyundai, Kia and some Fiats are the cars that spring to mind with the long warranties - Fiat especially as they are the first european maker to break ranks, perhaps because their cars have long been percived as a bit fragile - the only question mark is the willingness of Fiat to accept claims and the dealers to give decent customer service while persuing them.
Im always drawn to long warranties because it demonstrates confidence in the build of a product - those blinkered fools who claim they dont do it because it costs extra - well unless the car is unreliable, a warranty is mearly a piece of paper and only costs of the product is weak.
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I think warranties are a classic fear, uncertainty, and doubt marketing tool, and as such, I'm not their biggest fan. I would much rather have the choice of buying a car without any warranty as long as the cost of the warranty is stripped out of the price - I hate it that the choice is denied to me.
I personally wouldn't have one of their cars again following this little affair.
I think that any volume producer would be careful in setting precedents for large claims like these for parts where the costs can't be passed on to suppliers. It's probably also happened at the worst possible time for that particular company - they aren't in a position to be generous at the moment.
Taking the opposite end of the market, MB can be amazingly generous, with work being undertaken on cars well outside warranty to maintain goodwill. A rich company which charges a premium for its products and trades on a reputation for quality and customer service.
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Not for me, GB. Long warranty means someone else working on my vehicle - don`t like that. I like to think I have quality standards for servicing that the trade cannot be expected to match given their time constraints on jobs and the requirement to turn (understandably) a profit.
(Filters only held with new latex gloves, mobil 1 oil, thorough underbonnet cleaning, all alloy and screw heads WD40`d. regrease brake lines, brush waterproof grease into frames and under body seams, battery out - clean check & proof holding tray, air filter housing vacuumed, fuel filter - scrupulous cleanliness - thorough external degrease, clean, dry - new gloves on new filter element not touched at all - thorough clean rinse & dry of housing. And so on)
You couldn`t put that degree of effort into it if having to charge in competition with other garages.
Look at a forum members sump as an example. Main dealer serviced at great cost - yet progressively rusting sump ignored at every oil change (only needed a oilrag (cough) or rag with oil or HMP grease on it - 20 seconds work - but owner informed after a few years of tech watching it it rust "New sump needed"
Abandoned the Fiat warranty on the van by doing the second year service myself. Nothing went wrong, so won the gamble.
I will continue in this way regardless and if bad luck strikes - will pay the repair myself.
So there!
(I`ts not really being thrifty or even Yorkshire thrifty.. cos I`m prepared to pay the price if it goes belly up in what would have been the warranty period.)
;-)
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Agree with NC. I too dislike the fact that I don`t have the choice of not having a ( or a 1yr) warranty - and that I am paying extra + possibly towards others.
Like being in the AA - never using it, yet paying for it while watching it being used almost like telephoning for a takeaway by those who don`t put any effort into maintaining their car.
That said, I did get a Mega discount for no call outs - so bad example ;-)
Edited by oilrag on 07/06/2009 at 12:17
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A couple of thoughts here - I think you find the coverage on longer warranties becomes less as the car gets older, and it's arguably not in car manufacturers interests to do things which would encourage people to keep their cars longer.
I was dismayed that daugher's SEAT Ibiza failed MOT at 4yrs/34K miles. We've had it from new and it's been "fully" dealer serviced. Yet it failed because a suspension bush perished and the rear drum brakes need servicing. I think both of these things are unacceptable - the servicing regime in adequate and the bush shouldn't have failed in such a period.
SEAT don't seem to care less. But neither of things would have been covered by the longer warranty from the Korean manufacturers.
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Oilrag, I read that and thought you were describing me. Its refreshing to know that I am not the only one who suffers from an auto form of OCD (well not as bad as that but I hope you know what I mean).
When you do entrust your work to a garage do you have a feeling of deep foreboding as you walk away knowing that they don't really care about your car? You capture this particularly well by describing the mechanic watching the sump rust over a period of years without taking any preventative action.
Edited by Fullchat on 07/06/2009 at 12:26
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Yes Fullchat.
(Not helped by me having worked a week in a main dealers workshop after leaving school.)
You are right too that it`s not OCD - but it`s certainly a personality attribute - less severe than that - that cuts two ways. (IMHO)
1) It also makes you very good at your job - the commitment to detail - which comes naturally.
2) You have to watch the effort (often unnoticed at first) it takes doesn`t cause burn-out.
;-)
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I think warranties are a classic fear, uncertainty, and doubt marketing tool, and as such, I'm not their biggest fan. I would much rather have the choice of buying a car without any warranty as long as the cost of the warranty is stripped out of the price - I hate it that the choice is denied to me. >>
NC's approach is interesting, but if you take it to its logical conclusion, no manufacturer would offer any warranty on anything and you'd be engaged in endless small clains court actions to try and get something back for the money you spent.
I think warranties are only reasonable and should be viewed as the maker puttiing his reputation behind the product by saying it will last at least x years without problems. But three years for a car is not actually very long, is it?
I tend to think that manufacturers get away with the least they think the market will bear. The Nissan Qashqai has an American equivalent called the Rogue. Nissan UK's warranty is 3 years 60K miles. Nissan US's is five years 100k miles. It may be that years 4 and 5 are on different terms, but I doubt it.
I think a warranty might influence new car choice where the manufacturer is new to the market; less so where it has an existing reputation. And in NC's terms the cost of the warranty might be quite small for some manufacturers because their product is good.
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but if you take it to its logical conclusion, no manufacturer would offer any warranty on anything and you'd be engaged in endless small clains court actions to try and get something back for the money you spent.
I don't think that logically follows. I can see the situation where selling the warranty is as, if not more, commercially lucrative as selling the car itself. I don't think the change I've suggested would necessarily mean the total demise of th warranty.
Over the last 30 years or so, the new cars in my family have been bought and have been bundled with warranties which we have never used. We've had to pay for something which we didn't want.
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Just remember that at many of these garages,the car won't be worked on by a "mechanic";it'll probably be an apprentice with an occasional glance from someone more qualified.And I would HOPE that the garage would take responsibility for his work.
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We went outside the Hyundai dealership chain for servicing 'er indoors Getz. I was quoted £380 for the recent fourth year service (all it was was oil and filter and lots of 'checking'). Got it done at a super independent small garage for much less (charged me £20 for new front brake pads)
They main dealer were hopeless when it came to getting an oil filter and listening to the receptionist explain to a customer how they couldn't service the car, because they had ordered the wrong (basic) parts didn't inspire confidence. The service bay seemed to be populated by spotty teenagers in overalls.
The '5 year warranty' is in my opinion, a hook to keep people in the very expensive dealer chain.
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Thanks for that, MLC. We just picked up a new i20 last week, and one of the factors that made us choose that car was the 5 year warranty!
Very pleased with the car so far, but......
There do seem to be a lot of exclusions in the warranty booklet - but don't know if that's the same with all manufacturers. And servicing seems expensive - think it would have been nearly £500 for a 3 year servicing deal. Needless to say, we declined, but looks like service costs are going to be quite high!
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...it'll probably be an apprentice with an occasional glance from someone more qualified.And I would HOPE that the garage would take responsibility for his work.
I would certainly hope so. Considering what main dealer labour rates are, especially!
Probably be cheaper getting a Ferrari pit crew to service it! ;-)
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I personally highly likely to buy my next car from Hyundai/Kia stable because of long warranty. Of course, I like Daihatsu as well for same reason but shame they don't offer enough choices.
The manufacturers are not giving 5-yr warranty because they are getting away without doing it. If their sales tumble, they'd be forced to do it.
The Hyundai/Kia etc. long warranty providers' shares are growing, but not at that pace to force other manufactures match their offer.
If motoring journos start writing that "Mercedes is afraid of their own product as they don't offer over 3-yr warranty" the companies might consider otherwise.
Having said so, for most manufactures, you can actually extend warranty after 3 years till 5 to 7 years by paying a yearly fee [varies from £300-£800 depending on car].
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