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I would suggest a policy of every foreign vehicle that is involved in an RTA in this country being seized on the spot and subject to rigorous inspection by VOSA. Perhaps a spot of inconvenience might make some of these foreign drivers think a bit harder about their activities whilst using our roads.
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I would suggest a policy of every foreign vehicle that is involved in an RTA in this country being seized on the spot >>
Even if it's not their fault ?
That's a bit of a "Daily Mail" reaction!
In this particular case the OP was - if I understand correctly - overtaking the truck and was level or just ahead of the cab when the truck pulled out.
Trucks don't pull out for no reason - presumably someone was either joining lane 1 fron a slip road, the truck was coming up against slower moving traffic, or changing lanes where the carriagway splits - if the OP was level with the front of the truck(and in a known blind spot) he maybe should have read the road ahead and anticipated and been prepared for such a maneuvre.
There seems to be a presumption that because a truck is "foreign" it must be guilty of bad driving.
I'm sure that the Polish driver will be found to be the cause of the accident - as he did indeed change lanes - but many accidents are preventable with a bit of anticipation.
I'm not having a dig at the OP - just the view of some that every "foreign" truck is badly driven and given to reckless maneuvres.
J
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In this particular case the OP was - if I understand correctly - overtaking the truck and was level or just ahead of the cab when the truck pulled out. Trucks don't pull out for no reason - presumably someone was either joining lane 1 fron a slip road the truck was coming up against slower moving traffic or changing lanes where the carriagway splits - if the OP was level with the front of the truck(and in a known blind spot) he maybe should have read the road ahead and anticipated and been prepared for such a maneuvre.
>
We had just entered a temporary 50MPH speed limit (roadworks) and all three lanes were full and travelling at the same speed. we were about half a mile from the next exit, no one was changing lanes, he must have lost concentration and let his truck wander into my path! He MUST have been able to see my bonnet at least (I was in a Legacy, not a Ka).
If I had anticipated his lack of judgement or seen it was about to happen I might just have side-swiped the car in lane 3 myself (having avoided being hit by the truck), and therefore would have been responsible for the accident whilst the lorry simply went on his way!
The Policeman who attended knew the score and gave the driver a good rollicking (even though he pretended (or otherwise) not to understand. He also told me that the CPS refuse to prosecute the foreign legion, much to his disgust.
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He MUST have been able to see my bonnet atleast (I was in a Legacy not a Ka).
Not true, there are huge blind spots on the passenger side of an LGV, even with all the mirrors they have to have!! Best protection is not to be there in the first place. Not saying it was your fault, but this type of accident can nearly always be avoided.
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'That's a bit of a "Daily Mail" reaction!'
He'll take that as a compliment.
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Absolutely spot on Jacks:)
What a refreshing change for someone to understand just how the real world really is.
Latvian, Polish, Estonian?
What's wrong with foreign or LHD lorry?
If I have a bad plumber come to fix a tap, |I never seem to get around to the problem of finding out his place of birth.
Yes, he is to blame and yes, it would have been a scary experience, but next time you will be aware that LHD lorries with foreign number plates have a blind spot and it's best not to get in it, it's better still not to linger too long in it.
And for those of you who call for vehicles to be impouned etc when this type of RTA occurs, don't forget that to be fair, it has to apply to you when driving in the EU, on holiday or business.
The British driving test should be followed by an awareness course and a progressive driving course, before a full licence is granted.
That way, so many accidents would be avoided.
Pat
As
Edited by pda on 10/03/2009 at 19:28
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So there you have it Nick, guilty by being daft enough to put your car beside a LHD truck and not know you were going to be hit, high time you took a test i would say..;)
I understand Mystig Meg has a spare crystal ball going cheap, perhaps this could be a good purchase.
Sorry mate, i have every sympathy with you really, my sarky comments are in blind fumation (is that a word?) at the insinuations that you were somehow partly at fault by being there, perhaps you should have shoved the guy in front of you along a bit, maybe then you wouldn't be in the way when the next one decides its time to blind lane change.
Some comments on threads like this beggar belief, Nick is entitled to travel the motorways without being knocked all over the place, as far as i can gather he (i presume you're a he Nick if not apologies) didn't change lanes, the truck did without making sure the way was clear.
No excuses, the truck driver should have the passenger side mirrors set to cover all areas, if the mirrors are set correctly there is no blind spot....period.
How many times does it need saying...it's the truck drivers responsibility to drive the thing properly, it is not up to everyone else on the road to do it for them.
I'm pleased and impressed that your car maintained its path and didn't get spun round onto the front of the truck, and i hope you get some justice from the insurance situation.
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My friend had this happen to him. the driver could not be traced as he was from that area. Now he has a written off skyline, and no come back! SORRY but that is what happend.
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It's nice to know that whilst foreign truck drivers are attempting to kill us with their lack of driving skills there are those amongst us who will defend the truckers all the way and blame us for being on the road in the first pace.
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"foreign truck drivers are attempting to kill us"
Really? All of them? Deliberately?
"there are those amongst us who will defend the truckers all the way..."
Oh, come on. Who's defending them "all the way"? Mr X just loves that bit of tabloid-style, sensational distortion, doesn't he?
"...and blame us for being on the road in the first pace [sic]"
It doesn't get more absurd than this. Or is it a bit of trolling?
Edited by ChrisPeugeot on 10/03/2009 at 23:21
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GB you have cheered me up no-end. Whilst I understand other posters comments about "always maintaining a clear/free lane distance" from these LHD rigs, it just isn't possible all of the time. Perhaps some of the posters have discovered a method of getting straight into lane 3 without having to use lanes 1 and 2 in the process?
Like you said, I could have caused an accident on my own and not bothered the truck driver at all!
And yes, you presume correctly, it is Nick.
To answer an earlier question, he (the lorry driver) gave/showed me his identity card, that's why I know he was Polish.
Edited by nick62 on 11/03/2009 at 00:42
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Was his name Mr Prawo Jazdy? :-)
It's disgraceful that the CPS don't wish to prosecute foreign drivers. They probably don't think it's cost effective, but what price justice?
Along with the failure to tackle unregistered and uninsured vehicles It just sends a message to the UK motorist that the government is only interested in prosecuting the generally law abiding who are easy to trace and who will roll over and accept their punishments.
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I followed another car yesterday thro' some miles of roadworks;the driver sat right alongside a truck in the blind spot all the way thro' tho' there was nothing in front of him-he could have moved up a few yards or dropped back by the same.
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Was once overtaking a HGV, going about 10mph faster than the HGV. He merely indicated to change lanes, I noticed and scared the hell outta me. Since then, I am acutely aware of HGV blind spots and avoid them as far as possible.
Edited by Webmaster on 24/03/2009 at 00:25
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That's when you need air-horns.
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No excuses the truck driver should have the passenger side mirrors set to cover all areas if the mirrors are set correctly there is no blind spot....period.
Aww, come on GB, you drive a transporter, probably a Volvo FM or similar low cabbed unit, possibly with the glass panels in the footwell area of the doors. These have much smaller blind spots then a full size ( ;o) ) proper tractor unit.
I have never yet driven or seen a truck in which you can eliminate 100% of the blind spots. You have been doing the job long enough to have had the trick played on you when you are reversing and someone sneaks up on your passenger side blind spot and bangs hard on the door - makes you jump about 3 ft normally!!!
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There is always a blind spot for any HGV, but if you can see the surface of the mirror, then the driver should be able to see you.
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While I aggree that truck driving standards vary, the average car driver has no concept of truck driving and can put themselves in danger through ignorance and poor vheicle positioning. This combined with the "blame anyone but me" culture can cause car drivers to blame others without being fully aware of the circumstances other than "he hit my car". Truck drivers can do without the hassle of accidents.
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GB was that you at Cherwell valley this morning about 5am on the forecourt?
Pat
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GB was that you at Cherwell valley this morning about 5am on the forecourt?
Fraid not Pat, later start so preparing breakfast for swmbo, i know which side my breads buttered too.;)
Does that mean there's 2 George Clooney doubles on my company?
3am again tomorrow though, eyes like the proverbial...
R75
Yes i drive a low cabbed truck, not a Volvo though (not keen on wardrobe door mirrors on the offside), wouldn't be much point having a high cab unless its OK to total every car on the peak.;)
And it is quite easy to adjust passenger side mirrors to alleviate this blind spot that isn't.
Most drivers have the wide angle mirror set too high wrongly thinking its only for seeing where the trailer is on tighter turns.
With a little judicious angling of all 3 (usually) passenger mirrors and setting the one over the windscreen correctly all mirror views can overlap each other, as you well know.
Managed to not to lose anybody in the blind area when i had Crusaders, S80's, 88's, 111's, F90's, Yorkies and the like, and they were as high and as small windowed as anything now, if the truck wasn't equiped properly we'd sort our own mirror specs out, blimey flat mirrors on some of those old uns.
As for windows in the lower doors, don't they use them on refuse trucks?
Don't see many Dennis tractors under car carriers....;)
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R75 Yes i drive a low cabbed truck not a Volvo though (not keen on wardrobe door mirrors on the offside)
Are they the ones that give you a huge blind spot behind them so that you can not see approaching traffic at junctions etc??? ;o)
As for windows in the lower doors don't they use them on refuse trucks? Don't see many Dennis tractors under car carriers....;)
And some FM's as well as the older FL's I seem to remember the Iveco's had them as well!
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'Truck drivers can do without the hassle of accidents.'
Really ? On two recent journies on the M6 ( north bound past Preston ) on what were quiet stretches with light traffic, myself and co driver have observed on FOUR occasions, HGV's leaving the first lane for no reason at all and traveling half on and half off the hard shoulder before correcting their vehicle. Thats FOUR different HGV's on just two journeys . As we both remarked, ' glad I'm not trying to change a puncture when they're about ".
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Why do I need to take a test because I have observed HGV's making a dangerous maneuver ?
I was safe in lane two watching these antics unfold a head of me.
Edited by Mr X on 11/03/2009 at 19:57
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Done any advanced driver training Mr X?
Edited by Old Navy on 11/03/2009 at 20:41
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I don't need any ' training " I wasn't the one who left lane one, drove half on and half of the hard shoulder for several hundred yards. Are you saying that it was my fault the HGV's did this. I don't understand.
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I don't need any ' training " >>
I wish I was that good a driver.
Edited by Old Navy on 11/03/2009 at 20:53
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Please answer the question you seem so desperate to avoid
How was I responsible for the HGV's entering the hard shoulder of the motorway when I was some distance behind in lane two
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Guilty conscience? I didnt say you were responsible for anything.
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I say ' I saw trucks HGV's wandering on and off the hard shoulder '
You ask about my levels of training as if to suggest that I caused this .
Clearly my levels are some what higher than the trucks in question as I don't feel the need to endanger those who may be broken down on the hard shoulder.
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There are a number of reasons why LGV's leave the inside lane, only one of them is down to lack concentration of the driver.
It could have been the weather, high winds can easily blow you out of a lane. But more likely is the tramlines in lane 1, these can be extremely dangerous on some stretches of road. In a car you will not notice them as much as they are at the same axle width of an LGV. But I can tell you from experience on many different occasions that the tramline can easily throw you out a lane and onto the hard shoulder.
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There are a number of reasons why LGV's leave the inside lane only one of them is down to lack concentration of the driver. It could have been the weather high winds can easily blow you out of a lane. But more likely is the tramlines in lane 1 these can be extremely dangerous on some stretches of road. In a car you will not notice them as much as they are at the same axle width of an LGV. But I can tell you from experience on many different occasions that the tramline can easily throw you out a lane and onto the hard shoulder.
so that makes it ok?
surely the right and proper thing to do, would be to slow down to a speed where the vehicle is controllable, and/or get off the road and use an alternative route?
to my way of thinking, to continue driving at a speed where the vehicle is uncontrollable is at the very least an offence of dangerous driving, or driving without due care?
FYI I am not a professional driver, but have in the past put a fair few miles on 7.5tonners so have a (limited) idea of how highsided vehicles handle.
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Old Navy....pink fluffy dice?????
I have also seen HGV's drifting from lane to lane on motorways, does that make me a poor driver also?
I have not seen Mr X state he is a better driver than everyone else so I dont understand what your posts are about?
IMHO I think that the poor quality of driving in the country needs looking at, and not by more cameras. but good old fashioned policing - but I dont get why, when someone posts their observations on a motoring forum they get stupid childish comments returned.
by your name, I guess you arent some wet behind the ears teenager, so stop posting like you are, please?
Edited by Webmaster on 11/03/2009 at 23:51
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Come on, Tony - you're as bad as Mr X - missed Old Navy's point completely.
However, in your defence, I must admit irony doesn't convey itself very well on the forums like this.
I did have a chuckle.
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Come on Tony - you're as bad as Mr X - missed Old Navy's point completely. However in your defence I must admit irony doesn't convey itself very well on the forums like this.
please explain then.........
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Something to do with "casting the first stone", I suspect... I quite enjoyed it as well, ON!
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>> However in your defence I must admit irony doesn't convey itself very well on the >> forums like this. please explain then.........
Im still waiting..........
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I'm astonished people are still getting smacked by left hand drive trucks.
There has been so much publicity in the media and so many sighted on the side of the motorway picking up the pieces after a sideswipe - and I don't even do a very big mileage these days!
And on the move, it's not exaclty hard to spot them if you are paying attention. The funny number plates are one clue, and the odd names and places signwritten on the rear are another. Add the odd wander onto the hard shoulder as they are over on their hours and tired out and, hey presto, "This is a truck I should avoid!"
There has been so much publicity about this that anyone getting caught out by casually cruising alongside at any speed instead of either hanging back or overtaking very quickly should themselves be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention!
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cruising alongside at any speed instead of either hanging back or overtaking very quickly should themselves be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention!
Got it in one!
Edited by Old Navy on 13/03/2009 at 23:12
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Missed the edit: I apply this method to all HGVs and busses, and anyone who gets alongside an articulated, (or any), truck on a roundabout needs their head examined.
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anyone who gets alongside an articulated (or any) truck on a roundabout needs their head examined.
ON we're not all buffoons incapable of controlling our vehicles or knowing whats happening all around us, some of us really do take a pride in a job well done.
Maybe if you paid more attention to the way the truck's being driven, anticipation, road positioning, vehicle handling and driving competence in general you'd spot the ones you need to avoid.
As it is we're all tarred with the same brush, oh well no change there then its been exactly the same for the last 30 years plus.
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Surely what he suggested is just "defensive driving" GB, not a dig at all truckers?!
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GB : I held an HGV1 (later C+E) licence for many years, I havent driven proffesionally for a long time as I am retired. I stand by my statement and as b308 says "defensive driving", laced with self preservation, and I make a point of trying to maintain a high standard of driving. I have seen suicidal antics by car drivers on the blind side and inside turning artics when I would have given the HGV driver room to manouver safely. I assure you my statement applied to unthinking car drivers not realising the implications of their vehicle positioning.
Edited by Old Navy on 14/03/2009 at 10:20
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I'm sure GB wasn't referring to you Old Navy, we love to see ex HGV drivers in cars and can tell them a mile away:)
Keep it up!
Pat
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No problem, GB had probably just been carved up on a roundabout! :-)
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probably just been carved up on a roundabout! :-)
I only get carved up on roundabouts by other HGV's, usually of the left handed variety (expected) but increasingly by our own too.
The reason for my last post was the assumption that it is dangerous to be alongside any HGV on a roundabout or anywhere else for that matter, that simply isn't true, if there's a danger of me or many thousands like me getting too close, i will time my vehicles' movements to allow the danger to pass with no input or reaction required from the car driver concerned who 99% of the time will be oblivious anyway.
I appreciate the simple courtesy offered by a car driver of allowing a gap (and minor straightening) to speed a junction up for all, they are always thanked, as are those who move lanes to allow flow.
Conversely its not expected of the average car driver and i don't think anything less of someone who doesn't have a clue about trucks and room required, after all why should they, its our responsibility as truck drivers to maintain normal and safe progress and not impede others in theirs, and certainly not wipe them out.
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Sorry GB on the various bike courses I've done (including Bikesafe) - the recommendation is/was to get past as quickly as possible, especially in respect of LHD trucks !
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to get past as quickly as possible especially in respect of LHD trucks !
Thats good sense anyway, all overtaking should be carried out competently and swiftly, minimum time exposed to danger and such.
Its the congested traffic situation i'm more concerned about where people are forced by sheer weight of numbers to drive alongside one another for considerable time, often with the inside lane moving slightly faster.
We had a saying at one company i worked for ''you're as good as your last mistake'', that seems to apply here in a slightly different way.
The one thing that annoys me about all of this is that a drivers record counts for nothing.
Driver A has been driving trucks for 30 odd years and hasn't had a bump in all that time, much of it by luck, but he tries his best and keeps things clean and well maintained to make his job easier and better, and with a small amount of pride.
Driver B has been driving 5 years since he got his reduncancy payout, he takes no pride in his work has a prang or two a year, demolishes sizeable chunks of customers premises regularly, never indicates just pulls straight out causing mayhem in his wake.
Insurance claims/record don't follow the driver round..they should, the chaff would soon be unemployable and we'd all be better off.
Both of them are just scum of the earth lorry drivers in the eyes of the public and most amazingly in most potential employers eyes, who only want a cheap bottom on the seat, not having the nous to know who they are looking at.
This has become the norm as old school transport managers who could sum up their applicants pretty shrewdly have gone the same way as the old school driver A....they've disappeared.
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GB, I agreee with your views, but by saying that you automatically compensate for other drivers actions, (getting too close), without them even realising what you are doing reinforces my view that some drivers are unaware of the implications of their vehicle positioning. Thats why I try to drive so that the HGV driver does not have to compensate for my driving.
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I try to drive so that the HGV driver does not have to compensate for my driving.
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You are one of those who do so automatically ON i'll wager, you probably don't even think about it half the time, you probably don't think about it when you leave a gap in standing traffic beside a turning, its just good practice.
Does it surprise you when you get an acknowledgement for such simple courtesy/competent driving practice i wonder, or has such normal politeness gone too.
I notice so few truck drivers now thank someone for a little road courtesy, such a pity small things like this go a long way to making the hell of the modern road just slightly bearable.
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In general I find professional drivers usually acknowledge courtesy, probably surprised to get it from a mere car driver, but then I do live in Scotland, very civilised.
Edited by Old Navy on 14/03/2009 at 22:01
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I see that this is an old thread but thought I'd add my two pence worth as I too was hit by a non british HGV. I overtook HGV using far right lane while HGV straddled far left and middle lane of roundabout. I stopped at the traffic lights the HGV driver sailed through established red lights from behind me, cut in front of me taking the right exit, his trailer took off the side of my car snapping the steering arm, wrecking the engine control unit, ripping off the wing mirror and part of the panel above the front wheel arch. Caused a massive bang, dragged me about 10 feet around the roundabout with him but drove away totally unaware he'd hit me. I'd be really interested in others opinions especially other HGV drivers.
Edited by lawabider on 19/11/2013 at 22:37
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