I've read HJ's explanation on this on the site but its a little vague.
So many car dealers say there is no warranty offered on their cars, some say 1 month, some say 3 months. Today I had a knew one and was told it comes with 1 month engine and gearbox warranty but that excludes electrics.
Now the cars in question range from £1500 to £2000 so I am not talking about £300 bangers here. I understand that a buyer cannot expect a compreshensive warranty on a £500 car or even £1000 one but the law seems a little vague on this.
Can anybody else explain this to me in more simple terms? Are the traders braking the law by not offering a warranty?
|
Can anybody else explain this to me in more simple terms? Are the traders braking the law by not offering a warranty?
No, the law states that their product must be of merchantable quality at the point of sale. That does not mean a warranty must be offered.
If they sell without a warranty, and an electric window or a CD player breaks 6 weeks later you will have very little comeback, after all, a car that cost £18,000 new and sold second hand for £3K cannot be reasonably expected to be as durable as a new one can it?
If the same car suffers total engine failure 6 weeks after purchase then it is much more likely that you could clim that the car wasn't of satisfactory quality at the point of sale, and on a £3K car a judge would most likely agree with you (maybe not on a £200 banger though)
The problem that you have wih the cover afforded you under SOGA is that if the dealer says he believes the car to be of satisfactory quality and you feel that it isn't, you may very likely end up going to court to allow a judge to rule on whether it is or isn't satisfactory. This is hardly condusive to hassle-free motoring.
I know that you have said before that you are put off if a dealer says that no warranty is provided as you are under the impression that you have one under the law. I hope you understand from my explanation that whilst SOGA provides some cover, it can hardly be called a warranty (which is something that should cover most failures)
|
No the law states that their product must be of merchantable quality at the point of sale. That does not mean a warranty must be offered.
I should also point out that as you know, it's the dealer's duty to prove that the car was of satisfactory quality at the point of sale should a failure occur, *your* problem is in showing that the failure is serious enough to render the car of unsatisfactory quality.
|
Yeah that makes sense but it gets very complicated. What say if it developed a knock from the big ends but the car was clearly drivable? The car is still fit for the purpose but the engine could conk out soon.
What if the chasis turns out to be a bit rusty but just about meets the MOT standards?
I am also being very reasonable here, if I buy a car and the central locking packs up after 1 month of onwership I would expect to pay for it out of my own pocket, I am more worried about the serious side of things, e.g buying a car which soon develops a terimnal engine fault.
The law just seems to be purely a matter of opinion.
|
Yeah that makes sense but it gets very complicated. What say if it developed a knock from the big ends but the car was clearly drivable? The car is still fit for the purpose but the engine could conk out soon. What if the chasis turns out to be a bit rusty but just about meets the MOT standards?
In either of those cases, if you are relying on SoGA, then you simply hope that the dealer rolls over and agrees with you and provides a refund or repairs. If the dealer doesn't agree then you have to take them to court and argue it out with a judge. It'll be up to him to decide whether you're being unreasonable or not. I would suspect that a chassis that's about to give way through rot on a £3K car would be classified as unacceptable, the noise would be more debateable (see example below)
It's not a level of protection that I would be factoring into my decision making process when buying a car, if I was buying something pricey I would be keen to see a decent warranty, if it was only cheap then imo I'm not on this planet long enough to mess about arguing things in court.
In the case of the big end example that you give, my car has had a slight knock in the engine since I bought it 20K ago, it's still driving absolutely fine *touches wood*, therefore I think that if I had tried to argue with the trader I may have lost! (car isn't worth it anyway as it only cost £2,200 so if something mega catastrophic goes wrong it'll be Ebayed and I'll buy another)
|
|
|
|
So in otherwords it is probably a lot risky buying a car privately than some dodgy back street garage in some industrial estate, and if it does brake down the money saved will more than pay for it, tbh the only reason Iam having dealings with the trade is because the private market is dead, and in the past we have only bought from the privare market as we just haven't had good experience with traders.
I think you have explained it like HJ did, the problem is some people on here are under the impression that a 3 month warranty is law and some trading standards websites are worded more like that too.
A few traders have told me that they do check everything before they sell the car, and the one I was talking to today said he would put a new cambelt on if it needed one, the fact it had just a mechanical warranty seemed more than fair enough. The places to avoid seem to the ones which don't have any workshop facilities offer no warranty or just a insurance job, I doubt these cars have been properly inspected before put on the market. I might visit the place I went to today, the cars all looked straight and genuine, there was just nothing that took my fancy.
I am not that bothered about a warranty anyway, its just if I am paying a premium trader inflated price I expect a lot better service than I would from a private sale, a lot of these traders seem to think they can charge £800 by offering no more value to the customer.
|
" but the law seems a little vague on this."
Thats exactly the problem. Its difficult, if not impossible to be precise; but the vagueness is what causes as many problems as it solves !
From a buyers point of view, you expect the car to be sensible and reliable etc ( and so it should be). But cars get returned and customers get irate over things like headlight bulb blowing.
From a sellers point of view, you expect the car to be maintained correctly ( and so it should be) but problems also arise when basic maintance has not been done.
|
|
|
My understanding is that if you buy a car from a 'trader' you have some protection from the SoGA. Dealers can offer a warranty as well, which is basically an insurance policy giving cover with exclusions in the small print. A policy costs money, so if you are prepared to buy the car unwarranted you should be able to reduce the price by that amount. That is basically buying 'as is', with only SoGA protection.
A long time ago I got about £200 off just by asking. I don't know if many dealers play ball like that nowadays, but you can always ask.
Edited by Andrew-T on 03/03/2009 at 23:18
|
|
|
|
|
Can anybody else explain this to me in more simple terms? ... >>
Are you saying that you have been running a "customer facing" business all this time without knowing what the consumer protection laws mean?
|
|
I understand exactly what consumer protection laws are in my business, cars are very different.
|
I understand exactly what consumer protection laws are in my business cars are very different. >> >>
Interesting. Since you "understand exactly", can you tell me where in SOGA
www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/ukpga_19940035_en_1
you found that "cars are very different".
Other Acts are listed here
www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/buying-selling/...l
|
|
|
|
