MLC
Thanks. Playing devil's advocate, i'm putting two and two together and assuming that it was deliberate, i don't know.
On the other hand;
My Neighbour (who's happy to be a witness for insurance) did say that he motioned to my car and labelled it as her son's. Given that if you're not really concentrating, a blue Impreza's a blue Impreza, then i can certainly see how he made the link and decided to give it a wallop to teach her son a lesson after whacking the Ex Gf's car.
I only found this out today - i'll bring it up with Collisions, but wish i knew that yesterday.
Thanks again
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Midlife's right - from what you describe it's criminal damage. I'd skip collisions unit and report (firmly) as a crime, then ask what the station expects to do, and who the officer in the case will be - you'll have a name (and their supervisor!) to speak to. You must be prepared for the good old UK criminal justice system though. Doubtless he'll deny the action and it'll only go to court with good evidence. If no-one actually saw the collision and can categorically state (by recognition) that it was he driving, it may not get to court. Even if he is charged and found guilty, the court may not order he pay your excess, but your insurer would be in a stronger position to recover it. You could help yourself and gather what evidence you can, record it, and go for him through civil court. The burden of proof is lower and you may get somewhere. Myself and a colleague have used the process in private matters and claimed all expenses, and time, (at our overtime rate) successfully. Your chances are improved by gathering evidence now and being seen to be reasonable in what you claim. You will have to ask him first for payment and get a refusal or no response in order to proceed this way.
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"I'd skip collisions unit and report (firmly) as a crime then ask what the station expects to do and who the officer in the case will be - you'll have a name (and their supervisor!) to speak to. "
I wish. Avon and Somerset have one number for non emergencies, so i called that again and they've asked me to call Collisions when they open tomorrow morning at 10am because it's alredy on their system and the non-emergency system is different to the Collisions. Very apologetic operator, but pretty poor system IMHO.
Anyway. Spoken to Neighbour's son. Idiot has been in contact with Ex GF and found out he clobbered the wrong car. Still waiting for my apology and box of chocolates (not!).
His ignorance has strengthened my resolve to go for Criminal Damage, once i get to speak to an officer. Luckily ex GF still talks to his parents who also run the business and the Discovery is covered by the business insurance - so i'll have a copy of that tomorrow. i feel much happier that his vehicle is insured and i can claim off them rather be out of pocket on my excess. I will be claiming the cost of a new number plate, parking at the police station, three hours of my time at £25 per hour etc etc.
Thanks
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Does your insurace not provide legal advice/cover. Use that it's what you are paying for and make them work for you. You may well have to be pushy but that's the way it is.
Best of luck.
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Good point - i do have legal expenses cover. I forgot that. so once i get his insurance details, i'll it to them. Thanks for that!
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mare,
Whilst the advice above about criminal damage is factually correct, i really cannot see how that could be progressed, because even with a witness, all he has to say is "i made a mistake". Even though you know and i know he probably did do it intentionally..and witnesses could say he thought it was the lady's son's car, that still won't prove his intent and leaves him an outer. There's no way the CPS will run with that.
I think the collision reporting route is likely to be the more fruitful, particularly if you can get hold of an officer who deals i.e. not a civilian case clerk.. because then you can drop in the bit about the suspected deliberate act etc and most PCs will get their teeth into something like that. Your main problem is getting it to someone who 'cares' and doesn't just paper sift it....and increasingly nowadays that is the main problem.
Good Luck
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Unless I'm missing something, it would appear that the idiot hasn't exchanged the information with you which is required after an accident. This would be a traffic offence. Does getting the information from his gf count? I would think probably not.
The other alternative is, of course, for him to report the incident to the police within 24 hours. From what's been said here, I somehow doubt whether he's done that, either.
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If you don't have sufficient evidence for a criminal conviction you should be able to get redress in a civil court. Gather all the evidence you can, give him the opportunity to cough up and if not, take him to the small claims court. Likely as not, he'll pay up as soon as he gets the papers. If he doesn't, you'd be very likely to win, judging by what you have said.
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Westpig (great name) there'd be no prosecution under RTA with the circs. described if he claims an error of judgement, with the CPS published guidelines in respect of RTC's it sits firmly in the 'minor error of judgement'. Fail to stop/report likely as we both know. If he claims mistake (ie meant to hit another car) then crim dam is proven in that very admission. As you say, intent is all, and interview required by an OIC who's bothered.
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Time for an update.
Having finally navigated my way around Avon and Somerset's system, i spoke to a decision maker in Collisions, who appreciated what i was after and was very helpful. He gave me the method by which to get this moved up the list - simply, phone non emergency number, speak to the Control Room, and report a crime with a known offender.
Bingo, one PC popped up to the house tonight, took away a copy of my notes and photographs and took statements off three witnesses. One of these actually seen the guy aim at both cars and is adament that it was deliberate. She is therefore my star witness! PC who came up was firmly of the opinion that it was criminal damage and is taking it further, i.e. talking about nicking idiot in the next day or so. I know he'll out on bail, but he won't be expecting the visit in the first place.
Thanks all for the advice; i've written up my version of events, got three good witnesses (PC confirmed everything tied up) and printed off the photo's from my phone.
Sadly, the most frustrating thing has been getting through to the right bit of the Police in the first place, as acknowledged by the PC and decision maker at Collisions. Part of it is down to me not understanding that the guy did it on purpose and therefore it's CD not FTS. I can certainly have sympathy with the theory that the police aren't interested, because the public facing people in the call centre, while polite, don't seem that interested, but the people with the actual power to do something seem to be quite professional and interested in doing something. If I'd posted Saturday morning and had the benefit of the advice earlier, Idiot might well have been nicked that day.
Thanks again
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And done for drink driving?? It carries the ultimate punishment in these circumstances.
Edited by Fullchat on 03/02/2009 at 21:58
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Good result - just an overview of what will happen next - the guy will probably arrested, interviewed under Caution - the Custody Sergeant will make decision based on all the available evidence whether it passes the evidential "Threshold Test" if it does the Officer will see a CPS Solicitor, the Police xan also make other "disposals" either by Caution or Fixed Penalty Notice - he may require to do more work, take no further action, Caution or charge the other driver. Once it passes the above hurdles its off to Court. May take a couple of weeks a lot of it depends on Force practice. Has he asked you to document the costs of any damage to your car ?
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He should, so get a written estimate ASAP to help speed things along.
If its a first offence he may get a 'Caution', in which case no immediate compensation will be forthcoming via a court so you would have to chase this up via normal insurance procedures.
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It'll still allow you to claim off through County Court though.
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Sorry , should have been a little more specific ;-))
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Thanks for that, i'll read it again tomorrow with a clearer head. PC's just called back with the crime number.
I won't know costs to my car - I've claimed through my insurer having checked and double checked with them that NCD is unaffected, which they assured it was because car was unattended etc. Car will be off for inspection and repair next Friday. On the surface, it's just the bumper, but who knows what underneath? I've done that way for convenience, peace of mind and get it out of the way.
I have to pay the excess, but i will recover that and my other expenses, as i have legal cover, and hopefully i'll know by the back door who his insurance co is, so the legal people can argue with them.
My other expenses total £2.80 parking next to the Police Station, £10.90 for a new number plate, 8 hours of my time at just under £24 per hour. Is that unreasonable? Will the police care about those expenses, or it it just the car? Am i taking the wossit with claiming my time? The cost per hour is based on my cost to my business (salary plus NI etc / hours per month), but seemed cheap if anything.
Thanks
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Sadly the most frustrating thing has been getting through to the right bit of the Police in the first place as acknowledged by the PC and decision maker at Collisions.
really irritating for all....and caused by the civilianisation of former police posts to save money. Not the fault of the people in the call handling centres, but they don't know the score and often just follow 'crib' sheets or comply with SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures).
Part of it is down to me not understanding that the guy did it on purpose and >>therefore it's CD not FTS.
why should you have to understand it...i don't suppose i know most of what you do for a living.... and you wouldn't expect me to...(excellent news you got those witnesses)
I can certainly have sympathy with the theory that the police aren't interested >>because the public facing people in the call centre while polite don't seem that >>interested but the people with the actual power to do something seem to be quite >>professional and interested in doing something.
most people do not differentiate at all, why would they. To them they've called the police, not a call centre with staff employed by the police. There used to still be a degree of quality when the management posts in these places had police managers
...now they've been civilianised as well.
>>.....might have been nicked that day.
that's another irritating bit, (as Fullchat has alluded to)...by then valuable evidence is lost
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UPDATE
Idiot has been traced by Police, presented himself at police station 9am today, been arrested and given a caution and sent on his way. Apparently he meant to wallop ex-girlfriend's car, but "must have tapped" mine by accident.
I'm waiting on a letter from the very nice PC who ran with this, will attach letter to my expenses (excess, time dealing, new numberplate) and give it to the legal people to sort out. I'm half wondering whether or not to go for direct letter and follow up with stat demand, but legal service is paid for so will probably go that route.
Thanks to (i think) Fullchat for making the link for me with the Criminal Damage. Once i got through to the right bit of police, it got sorted fairly quickly and painlessly.
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Thanks for the update. I think it might have been midlifecrisis that mentioned Criminal Damage first though. But we're still talking good advice from current/ex police.
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Thanks for the update. I cannot take the glory that's down to MLC on this occasion.
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The OP/ip sounds like a sensible and reasonable guy as well, which always helps.
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Good story, mare - I hope it all works out. The difficult thing to allow for is the possibility that someone who behaves as described, if taken to court and seriously dealt with, may decide to repeat the offence to your car (or worse, house), making sure there are no witnesses or evidence next time.
Hope not.
Edited by Andrew-T on 26/02/2009 at 11:15
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