|
Cure the disease, not the symptom. The problem is the cable between the alternator and fusebox. The alternator output can get close to 150amps with all loads on. The fuse is rated at 150A and that must be the weakest link otherwise the object is defeated. Over time the cable becomes hot with use and it's conductivity reduces. The copper strands will eventually go crispy, and can no longer carry the high current the alternator is producing. The result is excess heat which must go somewhere, and in this case is dissipated on your fusebox.
Renew the cable with one with a rating of at least 150A and the problem is cured.....
|
|
Gee, is this problem still dragging on? This was a known issue back in the early "noughties".... I have a Jan 2001 Galaxy TDI and a few years back I had this very same issue, main feed fuse box partly melted along with end of cable from alternator to this fuse box. Genuine parts from Ford were around £50 and it took me under an hour to fit the cable and 'box. Fingers crossed, but so far no repeat incident. I don't know what may cause the wire termination to overheat and melt the fusebox, but I keep an eye on this now. Incidentally once I had changed the parts, the car ran smooother than it had since I bought it when it was 2 years old.. maybe constant volatge through this electrical joint rather than a fluctuating voltage as the resistance of the poor joint interfered with the electrical system. I have read that some people just re-terminate the cable, but as it was so comparatively inexpensive for such a long wire (it comes complete with ternimations and all the new clips to hold it in place across the engine bay) I deemed it better to buy the complete cable.
|
|
I have recently had this on my 1.9 td 55 plate galaxy. so far I have replaced the alternator, fuse box and wire. the alternator was new but the fuse box and wire was from the scrap yard, all replaced by myself as I cant afford garage prices right now. But depite replacing everything that was suggested im still having the same problems. the abs and airbag light are still coming on, driving is still slugish, I am driving about with a spare battery so I don't get stuck anywhere in the daytime. I cannot use the car at night cause using the lights drains the battery, as does the heater, heated rear window and heated front window that I know of so far. Has anyone else got any ideas what else I need to check for, im desperate now, I am a childminder and my car is used for transporting children around and is currently unreliable.
|
|
The car should not be on the road especially if you are transporting children how do know if the air bags or abs will work if needed,your list is on the face of it is a few different faults the engine is in LHM probably caused by dirty or faulty EGR valve ,the battery is not charging probably due to a faulty alternator or battery,
You really need to get it looked at by a professional and you should not be driving it I no its not the answer you want to hear but harsh reality sometimes comes up and bites you..
|
|
You can see why Ford decided that the latest Galaxy would be Ford developed and manufactured!!
|
|
This failure has been a characteristic of transverse engineed VAG vehicles and their derivatives for about a decade. It's a disgrace that VAG have done nothing about it.
As I used to design vehicle charging systems (albeit for much bigger vehicles), I've had a look at this and in my view, there are several design stupidities and one legislative idiocy.
Lead acid batteries generate a "fog" of acidic fumes whilst being charged. Putting a fuse box on top of a battery is stupid as the connections will tarnish. Although the OE battery is vented via a side tube, the acid fog exisits and of course, aftermarket batteries may vent through the caps. Not a design for the real world.
The contact pressure on the ring tag for the alternator fuse depends to some extent on the integrity of the plastic moulding and a thermoplastic moulding will relax when it warms up. Contact resistance can therefore increase and the overheating will snowball. VAG do not fit spring washers to their terminal posts in order to reduce assembly cost. There is therfore nothing to maintain contact pressure following thermal cycling and vibration.
I have seen VAG use unplated copper cable in the crimp for the output lead ring tag. Untinned copper is very vulnerable to acid fume corrosion.
Current legislation requires a fuse to be fitted in the alternator output lead to minimise vehicle fires on frontal impact involving engine damage. Such a fuse, carrying up to 150A will generate considerable heat if it is to be of a rating which will provide protection when needed. With the VAG design of fusebox, heating can produce a runaway failure as detailed above.
A "fix" is to run a separate additional heavy cable from alternator B+ to the battery positive terminal. This will prevent the design fault which causes this failure, but of course, fuse protection for the alternator is lost. As a huge number of existing vehicles lack this protection with few problems, this may be a reasonable risk - but be aware that it is a modification which bypasses a safety device. My view is that by maintaining supply integrity, it enhances safety.
Any additional cabling should be very well protected (run in a plastic conduit) and a secure insulating cap should be fitted to the alternator output terminal.
This, together with a few other legislative requirements (eg. diesel fuel filters with non-integral cans) has reduced vehicle reliability, added needless cost to owners and may have caused more accidents than it was designed to prevent.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 20/03/2014 at 13:54
|
This failure has been a characteristic of transverse engineed VAG vehicles and their derivatives for about a decade. It's a disgrace that VAG have done nothing about it.
As I used to design vehicle charging systems (albeit for much bigger vehicles), I've had a look at this and in my view, there are several design stupidities and one legislative idiocy.
Lead acid batteries generate a "fog" of acidic fumes whilst being charged. Putting a fuse box on top of a battery is stupid as the connections will tarnish. Although the OE battery is vented via a side tube, the acid fog exisits and of course, aftermarket batteries may vent through the caps. Not a design for the real world.
The contact pressure on the ring tag for the alternator fuse depends to some extent on the integrity of the plastic moulding and a thermoplastic moulding will relax when it warms up. Contact resistance can therefore increase and the overheating will snowball. VAG do not fit spring washers to their terminal posts in order to reduce assembly cost. There is therfore nothing to maintain contact pressure following thermal cycling and vibration.
I have seen VAG use unplated copper cable in the crimp for the output lead ring tag. Untinned copper is very vulnerable to acid fume corrosion.
Current legislation requires a fuse to be fitted in the alternator output lead to minimise vehicle fires on frontal impact involving engine damage. Such a fuse, carrying up to 150A will generate considerable heat if it is to be of a rating which will provide protection when needed. With the VAG design of fusebox, heating can produce a runaway failure as detailed above.
A "fix" is to run a separate additional heavy cable from alternator B+ to the battery positive terminal. This will prevent the design fault which causes this failure, but of course, fuse protection for the alternator is lost. As a huge number of existing vehicles lack this protection with few problems, this may be a reasonable risk - but be aware that it is a modification which bypasses a safety device. My view is that by maintaining supply integrity, it enhances safety.
Any additional cabling should be very well protected (run in a plastic conduit) and a secure insulating cap should be fitted to the alternator output terminal.
This, together with a few other legislative requirements (eg. diesel fuel filters with non-integral cans) has reduced vehicle reliability, added needless cost to owners and may have caused more accidents than it was designed to prevent.
659.
Many thanks for a good explanation. I have had this problem twice now on my Ford Galaxy 2004 1.9 TDi. On both occasions the first indication of a problem is when the front windscreen heater starts to operate intermitently, then the battery light comes on a couple of drives later, and then the battery charge warning light goes out when the front windscreen heater intermittently cuts in. I think this is all something to do with the intermitent failure of the connections when under high current loads but can be very misleading and I first started looking at the front windscreen heater as the problem. Fortunately found this forum before I went to far. On the first occasion the problem was the cable as described above and so I put a new termination on the existing cable and with a bit of modification of the plastic fuse box terminated the cable onto the other side, bypassing the fuse. This gave me a couple of years good service. Recently, exactly the same symptoms appeared so I looked at all the same connections but could not resolve the problem. On this second time I replaced the alternator and that solved the problem. Thought I should put up a post so people are aware that these problems could be either the cable and fuse box OR the alternator. Obviously the cable and fuse box is the right place to start because it is the cheaper alternative (recon alternator was £160).
|
|
|
|
The car should not be on the road especially if you are transporting children how do know if the air bags or abs will work if needed,your list is on the face of it is a few different faults the engine is in LHM probably caused by dirty or faulty EGR valve ,the battery is not charging probably due to a faulty alternator or battery,
You really need to get it looked at by a professional and you should not be driving it I no its not the answer you want to hear but harsh reality sometimes comes up and bites you..
Firstly im not using the car to currently transport the children incase of breakdown.
Secondly I have only been driving it locally to test it out to see if the battery was draining. Where when it first happened, just sitting, the battery would drain in about 2 days, since the repair it can sit for over a week, so something is better, I just wanted to know if there was anything else that I have missed that I can do to sort it.
The abs and air bag light comes on when the battery starts dying and being sluggish, this I have found from previous people is a common display/fault connected to the fuse box. The car was running fine before this happened. Could it of caused damage to fuses etc, just dont want to be pulling the 2 layered fuse box apart unneccessarily. when perhaps it something else under the engine
|
|
Perhaps you should think about reading some of the posts on this thread and act on them. Your charging system clearly needs attention by what you describe, and myself and others have pointed it out to you. If you can't fix it yourself then get a competent person to do it for you.
|
I have recently had this on my 1.9 td 55 plate galaxy. so far I have replaced the alternator, fuse box and wire. the alternator was new but the fuse box and wire was from the scrap yard, all replaced by myself as I cant afford garage prices right now. But depite replacing everything that was suggested im still having the same problems. the abs and airbag light are still coming on, driving is still slugish, I am driving about with a spare battery so I don't get stuck anywhere in the daytime. I cannot use the car at night cause using the lights drains the battery, as does the heater, heated rear window and heated front window that I know of so far. Has anyone else got any ideas what else I need to check for, im desperate now, I am a childminder and my car is used for transporting children around and is currently unreliable.
Sorry to hear about your problems but the simple fact is its an old car and old cars have problems.
But the important thing at this time is not to carry on using the car for transporting children as part of your role as a childminder. That is a position of great responsibility and to be putting those children at risk is simply not acceptable.
If something went wrong and it was c;lear that you knew of the problem you would be prosecuted, heavily fined or possibly more, in addition you would probably be banned from carrying on your business.
Either get the car fixed or stop using it, lack of money is not an excuse.
|
|
The sub-heading in this Forum is "Technical Matters" which I interpret as being a facility for members of the Back Room to assist each other with any specialised knowledge or experience they may have. It can be extremely valuable when used in this way and has exposed many engineering and trading mal-practices for everyone's benefit.
I fail to see that moralising as to the usage of a vehicle falls within the remit of this Forum. It's not relevant to the original question - and we all live in a real world and have to take practical decisions in the face of difficulty. Let's put our collective efforts into making the best of the problem for the benefit of the original poster - and I suspect, in this case, very many others.
659.
|
|
You are entitled to your own opinion no matter how wrong it is,if person is driving a car that in the opinion of various backroomers should not be driven it is their perogative to state this fact to the OP.Nobody is moralising just stating facts.This vehicle should not be on the road until its looked at no matter in what conditions its used that is simple fact of statement,do not forget it could be you or a relation that this vehicle runs into..
|
The sub-heading in this Forum is "Technical Matters" which I interpret as being a facility for members of the Back Room to assist each other with any specialised knowledge or experience they may have. It can be extremely valuable when used in this way and has exposed many engineering and trading mal-practices for everyone's benefit.
I fail to see that moralising as to the usage of a vehicle falls within the remit of this Forum. It's not relevant to the original question - and we all live in a real world and have to take practical decisions in the face of difficulty. Let's put our collective efforts into making the best of the problem for the benefit of the original poster - and I suspect, in this case, very many others.
659.
Thankyou for your support, I wanted advice in getting my car road worthy and getting back on the rd having had a similar problem to others on this thread, feel let down and lectured. I mentioned it was my childmnding vehicle for transporting children and people have jumped to conclusions. I know this car is fixable and I dont want to send it to the scrap yard just yet, I would prefer to fix it myself with advice from others who have had the same problem than pay rip off garages money to tell me what I already know.
|
|
I have recently had this on my 1.9 td 55 plate galaxy. so far I have replaced the alternator, fuse box and wire. the alternator was new but the fuse box and wire was from the scrap yard, all replaced by myself as I cant afford garage prices right now. But depite replacing everything that was suggested im still having the same problems. the abs and airbag light are still coming on, driving is still slugish, I am driving about with a spare battery so I don't get stuck anywhere in the daytime. I cannot use the car at night cause using the lights drains the battery, as does the heater, heated rear window and heated front window that I know of so far. Has anyone else got any ideas what else I need to check for, im desperate now, I am a childminder and my car is used for transporting children around and is currently unreliable.
Sorry to hear about your problems but the simple fact is its an old car and old cars have problems.
But the important thing at this time is not to carry on using the car for transporting children as part of your role as a childminder. That is a position of great responsibility and to be putting those children at risk is simply not acceptable.
If something went wrong and it was c;lear that you knew of the problem you would be prosecuted, heavily fined or possibly more, in addition you would probably be banned from carrying on your business.
Either get the car fixed or stop using it, lack of money is not an excuse.
Ive said above im not currently using it for transporting children, can people please stop making assumptions, it is or was my childminding vehicle, which is all I mentioned, hence I need it fixed. Will people get off my case about this im not stupid and didn't come on here for advice on transporting kids, I wanted advice on fixing a car that should be fixed following the repairs thats been done.
I wanted advice on what else I can check with the car, ie. could the meltdown of caused problems elswhere that have not been mentioned so far, not how, not to be an irresponsible childminder, there are those about and im not one and not having people jumping to conclusions and it has nothing to do with what I originally asked for help with, wish I hadn't bothered, talk about go off subject.
The point im making is I have addressed what had gone wrong with the car and as far as everything is concerned the repair has been made for what had gone wrong, new alternator, wire and fuse box all replaced, even tried a different battery, but although done it is still playing up, sick and tired now of having this car sat there for months and not being able to use it, even a dyagnostic test gives us no problems.
Came on here for advice on a car not a lecture on childminding.
|
|
You said in your original post
I am a childminder and my car is used for transporting children around and is currently unreliable
but now you say
Ive said above im not currently using it for transporting children
which is it, cannot be both.
Not exactly consistent are you.
|
|
|
|
|
I have recently had this on my 1.9 td 55 plate galaxy. so far I have replaced the alternator, fuse box and wire. the alternator was new but the fuse box and wire was from the scrap yard, all replaced by myself as I cant afford garage prices right now. But depite replacing everything that was suggested im still having the same problems. the abs and airbag light are still coming on, driving is still slugish, I am driving about with a spare battery so I don't get stuck anywhere in the daytime. I cannot use the car at night cause using the lights drains the battery, as does the heater, heated rear window and heated front window that I know of so far. Has anyone else got any ideas what else I need to check for, im desperate now, I am a childminder and my car is used for transporting children around and is currently unreliable.
Ok so I have re read fully my original post, sorry to those who have flown off the handle, reading ''I am a childminder and my car is used for transporting children around and is currently unreliable'' should actually say ''I am a childminder and my car is usually used for transporting children around and is currently unreliable.
Usually, meaning, not at the moment cause its not running right. The kids are missing some of their groups they used to go to cause I now can't take them cause they are not in walking distance for little legs.
|
|
Back to your problem.
ABS won't work if the battery voltage is low, & from what you report, the battery still isn't being charged properly.
Look at 659's advice carefully. You have fitted a used fuse box, so it may have the start of the same problem as the old one.
Check all the engine bay fuses for continuity after removing them one at a time.
You will need a test meter to check voltages & continuity. Check the battery voltage when the engine is running, it should be around 14 volts. Switch on various high current loads like headlights, heated window, & fan, make sure the voltage stays at around 14v.
If not, check the alternator output B+, that should be the same, 14v. If no output from the alternator, check the thinner wire at the alternator, that should have a slightly lower voltage.
|
|
Assuming your car is charging connect a voltmeter between battery positive and the alternator B+ terminal. Your meter must show less than 0.5v with all electrical loads on. Any more and you have a high resistance which must be addressed as your charging system will not be working properly, and will generate heat which will burn your fusebox.
|
|
|
|
|
|
