Car for Snow and Ice

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 18:54
Car for Snow and Ice - Paul Robinson
I'm fortunate and have been able to say at home today, but if you have to be out and about it todays snow, ice and particularly low tempertures, what would be the best car for the job?
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:04
Car for Snow and Ice - oldnotbold
The best car for the job would have a high safety rating but no value. Volvo 7/9 series, perhaps?
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:10
Car for Snow and Ice - NARU
I remember my little triumph 1500. Heat would be blasting out the heater by the time I got to the top of the road. I presume that it had a fairly clever way of blocking off much of the coolant circuit. Thin tyres and front wheel drive made it wonderful in the snow.

A far cry from my diesel today, which took 2 miles to pump out some lukewarm 'heat'.


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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:08
Car for Snow and Ice - woodster
Reliant Robin. I think we should think of the most unsuitable cars for snow! Back to your question - do you mean for ease of driving in these conditions or for fun on the snow? I've always had the most fun in rear wheel drive, preferably on virgin snow, which is 'grippier' than compacted snow. Front wheel drive is far easier to manage though. I find many people over hesitant in icy/snowy conditions and conclude that they're unfamiliar with skidding and how to deal with it. My most fun was in the dead of night on about 3-4 inches of fresh snow in an automatic 2 litre Sierra Sapphire. Yes, I spun a few times...
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:11
Car for Snow and Ice - b308
C'mon 4x4 owners here's your chance to justify your ownership for the couple of days its really bad!

A few years ago I had a Fabia 1.9TDi woth their ASR/ESP set-up - only once in the 5 years I owned it did I come across weather where I really needed to use it (as opposed to playing with it!) - that was when Brum ground to a halt with a few inches of snow about 3 years ago... I was driving into town which meant uphill for parts of the way and found that I could easily stay with the large 4x4 I was following (at a safe distance), the electronics gave me all the control I needed...

So, as far as I'm concerned, and bearing in mind that the vast majority of the UK does not suffer that badly, any car with decent ASR/ESP is sufficient, with the addition of winter tyres if its really bad...
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:19
Car for Snow and Ice - Old Navy
C'mon 4x4 owners here's your chance to justify your ownership for the couple of days
its really bad!

I wonder how many school run specialists know how to use 4 wheel drive or the damage that can be done to certain systems in 4 wheel drive on tarmac.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:31
Car for Snow and Ice - Nsar
4x4 is no better than 2x4 on sheet ice, unless it's patchy and you get a better chance of intermittent grip.

If anything 2x4 better there is probably less mass to try to bring to keep under control.

So a 4x4 Panda is probably your best bet - light, bit more traction and narrow tyres.


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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:28
Car for Snow and Ice - NARU
C'mon 4x4 owners here's your chance to justify your ownership for the couple of days
its really bad!


Yawn. There's enough of this on the other thread!
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:32
Car for Snow and Ice - mikeyb
I used to have an Audi A6 2.8 Quattro - that was pretty good in snow / ice. Always felt very planted and secure.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:35
Car for Snow and Ice - zookeeper
when i was a lad half the fun of walking to school in winter was the snow ball fights , and mass ambushing the milkman and postie... the thought of going by car would be unforgivable
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:41
Car for Snow and Ice - injection doc
with all my 4x4's I had the best was a Panda 4x4 fire which i used for 20 years & 200,000 miles & yes it really did it. In snow it was fantastic as it was so light it didn't slide & with the 4wd went anywhere. Some of the heavy snow we had in 87 & 89 it ploughed through no probs. The wheel arches used to pack solid with ice & had to poke it out but I can remember driving down a motorway in the outside lane through virgin snow when miles of traffic were using the N/side lane only. Had to carry an extra 20ltr gerry can of fuel due to a small tank
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 19:41
Car for Snow and Ice - mss1tw
2x1 worked fine today. Good fun sliding it out of corners on the throttle too!
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 20:09
Car for Snow and Ice - bathtub tom
Rear engined Skoda.

I outdragged a Cossie once, in a traffic light grand prix, on hard-packed snow.

Problem is, you couldn't then get it to go round corners.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 20:49
Car for Snow and Ice - daveyjp
Our Aygo is just the ticket. Very light, front wheel drive, skinny tyres and no traction control - just like my Fiesta Mk1 which was an excellent snow car.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 20:49
Car for Snow and Ice - Pugugly
2x1

Very brave !

Edited by Pugugly on 06/01/2009 at 20:50

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Tue 6 Jan 2009 20:53
Car for Snow and Ice - Alby Back
Mk 1 Cavalier. Skinny tyres, RWD, torquey engine, light weight. Huuuuuge fun. Best in yellow so it can be more easily found when you get it wrong and put it in a ditch......
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 20:55
Car for Snow and Ice - Pugugly
Mrs P had a Beigie Yellow one as a company car when we got married. Curiously the word VAUXHALL was miss-spelt on the back. Very good, well made motor with a stonking 1600 valve in head engine.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 21:04
Car for Snow and Ice - Alby Back
Well funnily enough I was actually describing my first company car. The thread reminded me that I was once up in Glencoe in a snowstorm in it. Hadn't seen any other cars for a while and was surprised by a Westland Wessex rescue helicopter landing on the snow covered road in front of me. I had to stop and one of the crew got out to ask if I was OK and would I like a lift? apparently there was no one else left in the glen that day and they had shut the road at both ends. I was only young and while I thanked them for their concern told them I was fine thanks and carried on.

Not going to publicly go into detail but consider this. You are young, a bit stupid, with a RWD company car, you have it on good authority that the road is closed but it's actually hard packed frozen snow and you have a wonderful twisty winding route ahead.......

;-))))

Edited by Humph Backbridge on 06/01/2009 at 21:06

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Tue 6 Jan 2009 21:05
Car for Snow and Ice - mss1tw
Very brave !


Hmmm, maybe - needs must!
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 21:36
Car for Snow and Ice - mrnikko
My 1973 Renault 4 was almost unstoppable in the snow we got in Cumbria in the 1970's. 845 cc engine and skinny tyres plus excellent ground clearance made it the go anywhere vehicle among me and my mates at the time. All my friends rear wheel drive Ford Escorts just spun round in pretty circles on the road .
Today our Shogun Sport is very good on the ice and in the snow we have had ploughing over Shap fell just before christmas was really fun.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 22:00
Car for Snow and Ice - PhilW
"1973 Renault 4 was almost unstoppable in the snow"
Those were the days - and the car! Remember once setting off from Lake Garda in late August to come home. We were wearing shorts and t- shirts. As we headed north it got colder and colder until, somewhere in Switzerland it started snowing. By the time we got to one of the passes (Fulda?) there was 6 ins of snow, we had several layers of clothes on and there were numerous cars abandoned by the roadside. Good old R4 got us through though. Still got a favourite photo of us standing by R4 in a blizzard at top of pass!
Mates Renault Dauphine Gordini was good fun in the snow in the late '60s!!! Even if it did spend most of its time spinning backwards into hedges! Not much traffic on roads of N Yorks in those days! Shovel for digging it out of snowdrifts was essential equipment!
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Thu 8 Jan 2009 10:06
Car for Snow and Ice - boxsterboy
My 1973 Renault 4 was almost unstoppable in the snow >>


2CVs are still popular in Switzerland for the same reasons, with the added benefit of no worries about the coolant freezing.

Mind you, I think I would insulate the roof if I drove one out there!
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 21:47
Car for Snow and Ice - Big Bad Dave
"if you have to be out and about it todays snow, ice and particularly low tempertures, what would be the best car for the job?"

All cars are up to the job. It was -21 degrees when I left the house this morning, rising to -17 at midday, the river is completely frozen and the roads are awful. I've been driving all day yet I haven't seen any incidents, accidents, breakdowns, I haven't even noticed a reduction in traffic speed. As long as you have good screen-wash and antifreeze any car will be fine. And you do need a lot of screen wash, I used about 6 litres today just trying to keep the screen clean.

Nice to see so many kids being pulled to school on sledges too.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 21:49
Car for Snow and Ice - Alby Back
Hope your boiler's working now !!??
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 21:53
Car for Snow and Ice - Big Bad Dave
It's stuck permanently on - which is better than permanently off I suppose but still no hot water. And in answer to your next question - I'm washing it in the bidet.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 21:57
Car for Snow and Ice - Alby Back
Too much information!!
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 22:04
Car for Snow and Ice - Alby Back
Mk 1 Pandas were brilliant in snow, even the standard 2WD ones. Same reasons as the Renault probably. Low powered, high clearance, lightweight etc.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 22:30
Car for Snow and Ice - Pugugly
Anything id better than a BMW - trust me.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 22:32
Car for Snow and Ice - Nsar
I'm washing it in the bidet<< Bit punishing on the knees I imagine.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 22:37
Car for Snow and Ice - Pugugly
As Humph said too much information - move on :-)
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 22:43
Car for Snow and Ice - rtj70
The second time I had a rear wheel drive car for a day (hire car for work - Omega)... it was as cold as it is now! Heated washer jets froze too. They wanted me to drive my ten year old Fiesta...

Back end kicked out on the A5103 coming into Manchester as I was about to turn right.... I instinctively steered into it and was fine (how did I have that instinct?)... car in front was a police car! Could have been interesting.
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 22:48
Car for Snow and Ice - Pugugly
(how did I have that instinct?).

Simple - because RWD is instinctive and proper ;-)
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 23:46
Car for Snow and Ice - 1400ted
I came up to a T junction with a stop sign in an RAC Marina van. Sheet ice, did 2 gentle pirouettes across the main road with my hands off the wheel and docked gently against the kerb. Bus driver waiting to turn right into my road gave me a nice round of applause and we both went on our way.
Ted
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Tue 6 Jan 2009 23:54
Car for Snow and Ice - Sofa Spud
When I had my old Land Rover, the only snowy day when I actually needed it to get to work instead of one of our other cars, it wouldn't start!

4x4s obviously keep going where 4x2s give up, but all cars have 4 wheel brakes, so a 4x4 isn't really any better at stopping on a slippery surface than an ordinary car.

And remember, if conditions get really bad - a 4x4 might just mean you get stuck further away from any help!!!

Edited by Sofa Spud on 06/01/2009 at 23:55

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Wed 7 Jan 2009 00:02
Car for Snow and Ice - rtj70
Proper tyres for icy roads are more important than number of driven axels. In extremes studs in tyres are needed (or snow chains).

My brother once got into skiing in northern CA and you really needed a big powerful 4x4 with snow chains to get there.

If it is icy/slippery then 4x4 is no better than 0x4.
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 09:49
Car for Snow and Ice - Mapmaker
>>If it is icy/slippery then 4x4 is no better than 0x4.

Nah. At least with 0x4 you don't even get out of the garage so don't put yourself in danger. 0x4 is better...


In answer to OP's question, the answer has to be a Subaru (with its symmetrical AWD system (or am I falling for the advertising???)) with - importantly - winter tyres.
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 10:06
Car for Snow and Ice - b308
Sheet ice did 2 gentle pirouettes across the main road


Reminds me of a similar episode about a year or two after I'd passed, driving a 1300, did a neat reverse spin and ended up on the opposite side of the road heading back the direction I'd just come, didn't touch a thing and was perfectly positioned in the other lane... no-one else around to witness it, though!
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 10:02
Car for Snow and Ice - b308
Simple - because RWD is instinctive and proper ;-)


Would beg to differ there, P, what is "instinctive and proper" is what you were taught and have driven most of your life... I learned to drive on FWD cars and have driven them most of my life, when I had a RWD car I had to "unlearn" my "natural" (or 'instinctive and proper') reactions to cope with different cornering techniques of the car out on the track...
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 10:12
Car for Snow and Ice - FotheringtonThomas
If it's just slippery, and not very deep snow, then a sidecar outfit is better than any car. If it's deep snow, something with good ground clearance and chains.
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 10:46
Car for Snow and Ice - captain chaos
If it's deep snow something with good ground clearance and chains.

Like a convicts' shoulders? ;-)
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 10:49
Car for Snow and Ice - movilogo
Any 2WD car with proper winter tyres will probably outperform any 4x4 with summer tyres.

So, tyres are more important that cars.

Otherwise I think any permanent 4WD cars will be good for not losing traction.
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 12:17
Car for Snow and Ice - mike hannon
Renault 4s are still cutting it (quite literally) better than almost anything else in this part of rural France, where it's minus 7 and frozen snow.
Best cars I ever had for this weather were a Morris 1800 Mk 3 with 15in wheels and - believe it or not - a Wartburg Knight.
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 13:01
Car for Snow and Ice - Garethj
My ancient Land Rover is good in this weather - the roads are clear but the car park in work is lethal!

It has the advantages of mud & snow tyres which are high profile, so even if you slither into a kerb you don't damage the wheel. It also has 4WD, but I'm not sure it's really needed if you're a little careful with the throttle.

Of course the drawback is Lucas electrics, well known for their performance in cold and damp weather.... Mine has been fine so perhaps the inbuilt faults have gone wrong?
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 22:46
Car for Snow and Ice - 1400ted
Of course the drawback is Lucas electrics


Joseph Lucas, also known as 'The Prince of Darkness'.
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 22:56
Car for Snow and Ice - captain chaos
:-D
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Wed 7 Jan 2009 13:02
Car for Snow and Ice - M.M
Best car ever in snow a 1970s Citroen GS. Narrow tyres (145 or 155 I guess) and FWD added to the ability to raise suspension made it laughably good in the hard 1978/79 winter.

Best normal cars a MK.1 Golf 1600 and Triumph 1500. Again narrow tyres added to FWD and not too heavy.

Best road vehicle a 1960s Series 2A Land Rover SWB petrol. Narrower tyres than later 4WDs and a lighter weight than the modern Defenders made it my favourite.

Best vehicle a 2WD John Deere tractor... which helps support the importance of tyres issue.

David

Edited by M.M on 07/01/2009 at 13:04

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Wed 7 Jan 2009 13:22
Car for Snow and Ice - madf
As a student at Aberdeen I owned an Austin A30 with Town and Country tyres on the rear. Note this was an A30 with 800cc not the A35 wihich had 950cc..:-(

It got through snow/drifts with ease: light weight/ grippy rear tyres , high wheelbase and narrow tyres.

I remember being the last car from Stonehaven to Abredeen in a blizzard. the next car (a Rover 2000 iirc) got stuck in the snowdrift I had just got through.... the road was closed after that.

The complete lack of any get up and go made a great difference: wheelspin was only possible with lots of revs in 1st gear. As the engine was quite worn, this was inadvisable....

In today's weather: about 2 cms of snow plus frost any big rwd car is carp - eg BMW/Merc unless fitted with winter tyres.

Even FWD needs good winter tyres on the driven wheels for best grip..

I drove a Triump 2.5PI for years which was good in snow asthe weight distribution appeared neutral...


Edited by madf on 07/01/2009 at 13:24

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Wed 7 Jan 2009 13:56
Car for Snow and Ice - Garethj
As a student at Aberdeen I owned an Austin A30 with Town and Country tyres
on the rear. Note this was an A30 with 800cc not the A35 wihich had
950cc..:-(


True, only the power-crazed lunatics needed an A35!

Did you have any problems with the mechanical rear brakes freezing up, or did an oil leak keep all water away? I believe it was standard equipment

Edited by Garethj on 07/01/2009 at 13:56

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Thu 8 Jan 2009 08:49
Car for Snow and Ice - madf
My A30 never failed to work 100% altho it was £30 and full of rust.
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Thu 8 Jan 2009 03:29
Car for Snow and Ice - L'escargot
Something with an electrically heated front screen for a start.
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Thu 8 Jan 2009 09:25
Car for Snow and Ice - ForumNeedsModerating
I had an Audi A6 1.9tdi with CVT (with ESP etc.) & 205/55 tyres - and found this excellent for snowy/icy conditions. The CVT could be feathered to produce just enough forward momentum & be in the correct 'gear' at all times. Coupled with the heavy(ish) diesel engine right over the (thinnish) driving wheels & ESP inhibiting slip, even icy slopes posed little problem - within the absolute physical & grip constraints of course.
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Thu 8 Jan 2009 09:30
Car for Snow and Ice - b308
205/55 tyres -


>>> (thinnish) driving wheels

I'm still trying to reconcile those two bits of info... if 205 is "thinnish" what are my 165s on the Maxi? Size 0?!

Edited by b308 on 08/01/2009 at 09:30

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Thu 8 Jan 2009 09:38
Car for Snow and Ice - ForumNeedsModerating
>>I'm still trying to reconcile those two bits of info... if 205 is "thinnish" what are my 165s
>>on the Maxi? Size 0?!

All relative I suppose - tyre/wheel oversizing is so commonplace these days, that 205/55 seems almost normal to me. My favourite size is 195/65 x 15 - good balance of comfort/ directional stability/ lateral grip - at least for my needs.
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Thu 8 Jan 2009 09:40
Car for Snow and Ice - FotheringtonThomas
the (thinnish) driving wheels


Why should "thin" wheels help grip on ice? Should be the opposite.
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Thu 8 Jan 2009 09:43
Car for Snow and Ice - ForumNeedsModerating
>>Why should "thin" wheels help grip on ice? Should be the opposite

Not in my experience.
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Thu 8 Jan 2009 09:46
Car for Snow and Ice - FotheringtonThomas
But *why*?
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Thu 8 Jan 2009 09:56
Car for Snow and Ice - ForumNeedsModerating
>>But *why*?

Snowshoe effect - skinny tyres have less of this.

Edited by woodbines on 08/01/2009 at 09:56

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Thu 8 Jan 2009 10:10
Car for Snow and Ice - madf
In snow and ice, thin tyres concentrate pressure on a smaller area. So if loose snow, you compress it to get better grip.. and less rolling resistance as less snow to be flattened.

On ice, it makes little difference. No grip = no grip . A wider tyre should give better grip as more surface contact.
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Thu 8 Jan 2009 10:13
Car for Snow and Ice - Number_Cruncher
>>thin tyres concentrate pressure on a smaller area.

Not necessarily.

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