My son's Citroen AX threw its alternator belt while he was taking his g/f home last night. As far as I can gather from a morose 19 y.o. teenager, the events were as follows;
a small sharp noise comes from the engine, simultaneously the lights dim and the battery light comes on;
son stops car and phones g/f's stepdad to shepherd him to g/f's house (by this time some 10 miles away);
son and g/f listen to radio until stepdad arrives;
car starts reluctantly and covers nearly 8 miles until lights go to candle mode and engine stops;
g/f's stepdad arrives, kicks tyre and they abandon the AX and travel to g/f's house, stepdad slagging off Citroens in general during the journey;
son phones me to ask if he still has recovery service, I explain that he is part of the family's pay and reclaim GEM recovery service, something he has known about for 18 months;
son goes silent for a long time and then says he has £6 in his bank account and the GEM membership card is in the car;
before I go all sarcastic and congratulate him, Mrs H chimes in and says I should go and recover him, I ask what the point of paying for GEM mebership is if I have to turn to on a freezing night with a tin of Guiness consumed and rescue his nibs;
having just put a new cat and lambda probe on the car, I insist that no attempt is made to start the car, even with the spare belt (under the boot carpet) fitted;
I leave Mrs H and son to sort out the finances and irritably pour a Scotch;
Mrs H says if I don't want the car started, I should go and supervise the recovery; I refuse politely;
I warm to my subject and criticise son's lack of organisation and expectation that everything will be done for him, quoting the time I bodged a fuel pump diaphragm with a piece of plastic bag by the side of the road on my VW Beetle, and other exaggerated feats of mechanical ingenuity;
Mrs H's eyes glaze over, she may have heard this one before;
an hour later the car arrives on the back of a low-loader, with the key turned to free the steering, there is barely enough juice to light the battery light;
the extremely helpful recovery driver and I push the car to where I can connect the battery charger while son makes phone call to person unknown;
the battery charger reports that it's giving 8+ amps and I leave it to cook overnight.
When cross-examined as to the wisdom of driving the car until the engine stopped, son says he was told to keep driving if the alternator light came on and only stop if the oil light came on. Not by me, he wasn't.
We are now at a Mexican stand off where son expects me to put the belt on so he can continue in his role as g/f's taxi driver, and I think it would be good for his life skills if he put the belt on; it's simple.
I also have to consider the effects of running the battery completely flat; it's a tiny budget thing about the size of a tin of Spam.
Don't feel a need to comment on this ramble, writing it is good therapy for me.
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Early contender for post of the year?
>>I warm to my subject<< one of my favourite phrases but used in close proximity to the word "wife" generally means that nuclear winter is but a short step away.
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Great post, thanks. The bit which particularly rang a bell for me was
"while son makes phone call to person unknown;"
I remember being called out to daughter (- I had to be driven, as I'd spent a good evening in the pub) who had inadvertently (not her fault, you understand) slid off the road, over a quite high kerb and very nearly into a 4 foot ditch quite late one cold night. While I was single handedly trying to push said car back she was busy yapping to someone about how late she was going to be...it was already nearly midnight!! I don't recall even getting a verbal thanks, let alone a gift of atonement... The joys of parenthood eh?
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I like the bit where he sits there listening to the radio... and draining the battery!
I think that you should "supervise" him putting it back on but perhaps a breakdown company where you pay up front might be more appropriate in his case, at least then his current state of his finances would be less of a deciding factor in calling them out?
And a word in the father of the g/f of the stupidity of expecting a car with no charge to last for several miles at night with the lights on may be in order!
Nice story, though! :)
Edited by b308 on 05/01/2009 at 11:13
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I have 3 sons. They buy their own cars and pay everything themselves. No subsidy, no HP. Hard on them but they really care for their cars. They have to or it costs them. I did buy them a house though or rather they live in a house I own. They can't crash it, the rent money stays in the family and over the long term it should go up in value. They don't do much mileage in the cars. They tend to stay at home with girl friends - often all weekend. Why have a romance in the back of a car when you have a comfortable house to go back to?
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>>And a word in the father of the g/f of the stupidity of expecting a car with no charge to last for several miles at night with the lights on may be in order!
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Well a few years ago I had alternator problems ( it appeared to have packed up) but with a normal battery.
I managed 50 miles at night and the lights went out so swopped to a fully charged battery and did the remaining 50 miles of my trip.
Flushed with success, I charged up both batteries and repeated the proceedure on the way home.
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Explain to the nipper that car dashboard lights work the same way as traffic lights.
Orange = proceed with caution; red = stop NOW.
Pretty simple theory, actually.
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You son is taking you for a ride. I think it's time he left home and stood on his own two feet.
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My dad once completed half a driving lesson with no alternator belt. It was an old fashioned Ford diesel though, so demands for power were very low and the car kept going on the battery.
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It's hard to break the habit of helping your children though. I got an early morning call a month or so back from my 23yo son, who'd just filled up only to find that his debit card was refused and he had no other form of payment. Luckily it was a local filling station.
Mind you it turns out that he was unexpectedly overdrawn because my wife had been using the wrong cheque book and removing funds from his account...
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Suggest to your son that he does all his shopping and fuel purchasing at Tesco. When he has enough points on the Clubcard he can buy his own RAC cover using the points. He needs £14.25 in points to pay for RAC Roadside cover.
We do this and get family cover paid for every year. Painless, and almost idiot-proof.
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Does the belt drive anything else? Water pump perhaps?
Lovely post. Been there myself - two daughters :>(
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" Sharper than a serpent's tooth is the ingratitude of a thankless child" - the late but great Aunt Margaret, paraphrasing Shakespeare I believe. I have two daughters and have been through all this myself. My eldest said the other day that the elderly but lovingly cared for one-owner Y reg Astra that I bought her when she was 18 was seriously uncool (whatever that is) and was the subject of much derision amongst her friends some of whom would not ride in it. Its not often I lose my temper..... As for your son, time for him to wake up I suggest and learn how to replace his own belt.
MGs
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"My eldest said the other day that the elderly but lovingly cared for one-owner Y reg Astra that I bought her when she was 18 was seriously uncool (whatever that is) and was the subject of much derision amongst her friends some of whom would not ride in it. Its not often I lose my temper"
Mine have a P reg Corsa - what would Miss MGs think of that? I've not had any complaints, and the fuel economy is a bonus, as they see it.
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Sounds just like my dad 10 years on the M62. The car started vibrating, I was in the back and said it smells like burning, my dad kept driving on as he stopped the car might brake down. In the end he was forced to stop, I got out to see a lot of smoke from the wheel and half road of the M62 covered in melted rubber which was the remainds of my dads tyre.
He also thinks the oil light means "It could do with a top up soon", I always keep an eye on the oil level so its not happened since but after nearly 40 years of driving he still has not got into his head that a red warning light means stop.
Whats wrong with a Y reg Astra? There are far worse cars some people are far too stuck up and snobby. Mind you after being dropped off at school with a 3 cylinder lada (was original 4 cylinder) which belted so much blue smoke it the plod would stop it often and the wings were made of holes. I think its last MOT would have had a two page list of advisories if such thing existed back then!
That said the oil preasure bulb does not even work on my car, so the only way of knowing is listening to the soind fo the engine and checking for unusual smoke, checking the breathers etc.
That said my dad once had a car which passed its MOT which for my dad is amazing.
My cousin was once bought a 1.6 Zetec Escort int he late 90's the car would have been worth about £4k back then, he was driving on the motorway and the oil preasure light came on, he thought it meant it needed a service how wrong he was! 10 miles later engine siezes on the motorway, £200 recovery fees charged by the police, £50 garage diagnoses fee, £2000 bill for a new engine, he just got rid of the car and has never driven since.
The problem is many young people don't remember the "chi chi chi chi bang chi chi chi zerk chic chi bang!" sound you used to get every winter morning as people tried to start their MK2 Escorts with damp points. I only just about remember those glorius days when you had a posh motor if all your wings were the same colour.
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"Y reg Astra ... 18 was seriously uncool"
Simple: let Daughter return the Astra and finance her own trendy transport. I think she'll find the bus isn't that fashionable among her mates either.
The other side of the coin: when I was learning to drive, my mother talked my father out of giving me his old VW bus because my younger brother would be embarassed to be seen taking a lift in it. Which condemed me to waiting at bus stops in the rain for buses that never turned up for my college years.
I'm still bitter - I just can't decide whether its more at my brother's fashion 'sense' or at my mother's paying any heed to it ;-)
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When elder daughter was in upper sixth, she had an Estelle. Her mates thought it was a hoot. They'd invite her to their places just to see the looks on their parents faces. It was the richest that seemed the least fazed. She once had to crawl under it to give a sticky solenoid a bash - a rich dad was impressed enough to join her to try and help.
Her younger sister used to crouch down in the rear seat to avoid being spotted, but she still preferred it to the bus!
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Funny you should say that BT. About rich people I mean. Guy I know is seriously well off. I mean into the tens of millions type wedge.
Most often to be seen in a rather dishevelled oldish diesel Golf.
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A similar thing happened to me one saturday night when i was 19. driving from Wales to Bolton in Lancashire, warning light on dashboard - thought it might be fanbelt but continued - 10 mins later lights dimmed and engine started to splutter - confirmed in my mind that it was indeed fanbelt, so switched to sidelights and continued, being careful to avoid having to come to a dead stop.
Made it home, went to bed, got up early next morning, confirmed (by its absence) that it was the cambelt, got the bus to the nearest motor factor, returned, fitted belt, test drive showed all ok - end of story. To this day (i was living at home) i have never bothered to tell either of my parents this story.
Was i lucky - maybe
Would my dad have come to the rescue - yeees
Would my mum have had kittens - double yes.
Did i ask for their help - not on your nelly, apron string time was well and truly over (even if i was still living "at home" [paying rent though] ) and i took every opportunity to show that i could stand on my own two feet.
My advice to you is -
pour yourself another guinness ....
tell your son to sort it out ....
when he has done so, pour him a guinness, congratulate him, and point out that he has probably scored high brownie points with his g/f !
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That reminds me of the countless times my ex-wife used to phone me when she finished work saying she couldnt get her car started. The car in question was a mint Talbot Avenger 1600 auto which if started using the time honoured process of judgement with choke and throttle, fired up almost instantly every single time.
Unfortunatly, despite my many attempts to explain how to operate a choke, she just glazed over and thought hard hard can it be.
So every week she managed to flood it and every week I got called out only to arrive, crank it over a bit and with a light amount of throttle, get it to fire up straight away ( then quickly pulling the choke out a half to make sure it didnt stall ). Needless to say, every time she felt rather silly and as a consequence, wouldnt speak to me for two days!
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A red light does mean stop, that said, I would expect that a fully charged battery should have allowed the car to complete its journey, even with the headlights on.
In your son's position I would have checked for loss of coolant (does the belt drive the water pump?), turned the radio, heater blower, headlights (if safe to do so) and any other drain on the battery, off and driven on.
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Hawkeye - Thank You - Thank You - Thank You.
You are a god in my eyes and I can relate to your thinking immediately.
Funnily enough Mrs P is also just like Mrs H - I am so glad it is not just me.
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My parents would both have had your opinion.
Can never understand what seem to be totally polarised opinions of parents. Agree with you 100% by the way.
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Brilliant Post.Three daughters now with own homes &houses. Wonderfull times.
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My 2 daughters left home - but then came back again. :-(
Interesting OP comments on having a drink - if one or both of the kids are out I really don't feel comfortable drinking until they're home. Yet if they're away somewhere I don't give it a second thought.
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I used to work for a major motor manufacturer.As soon as winter came,we had numerous complaints from people saying their cars would not start-so many,that we set up a task force.We would visit the complainer one day,check his car to ensure nothing obviously wrong with it and the following morning ask the owner to start as per the instructions in the driver's manual.Result-100% first time starts.
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Hawkeye,
A friend of mine recently scrapped his AX. Because I am a petrol head he gave me his Haynes Service & Repair Manual..'87 to '94. (D to M reg)! No use to me, so if you want it e-mail me at robertnutton@tiscali.co.uk and I shall be happy to post it on gratis.
By the way, my fiance has 3 daughters so I spent a few hours on Boxing Day checking the 'fleet'. Low oil, no windscreen washer fluid, wrong tyre pressures etc etc even 2 slow punctures which I steadfastly refused to pump up again after the 3rd time of telling...stern lecture on driving a car with only 6psi in one tyre and the legal consequences did the trick. Losing her liberty if the low psi was the cause of a tragic RTA seemed to focus her mind.
Edited by Honestjohn on 09/01/2009 at 06:28
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>>give me a call (xxxxx xxxxxx) <<
very suprised the mods haven't "hidden" your phone no!!!!
left yourself wide open to unsolicited calls! - was going to ring you to tell you, but thought i'd be better posting it! especially at this time of night!
Billy
Edited by billy25 on 06/01/2009 at 01:35
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>I only just about remember those glorius days when you had a posh motor if all your wings were the same colour<
If I ever get to have wings I guess it'll be too late for the posh motor...;-)
I feel consoled by this thread anyway, having elder son who once dragged me from the fireside to find (my) car on its roof in the road and once to drag (his) car out of a flood while he sat there with his girlfriend. The other son doesn't drive yet but I'm 500 miles away.
Edited by mike hannon on 06/01/2009 at 14:21
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sqother son doesn't drive yet but I'm 500 miles away.
MOVE!
Edited by Pugugly on 06/01/2009 at 20:11
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>My 2 daughters left home - but then came back again ..
My two are now around 40 and deal with their own cars. During their formative motoring years, which were spent mostly with old-style Minis, they managed to stay out of serious car trouble. The younger girl's most annoying trait was to avoid buying fuel by leaving just enough in the tank so that the next driver had to fill up ...
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I lent a 'second car' I had at the time to my brother-in-law. He drove it around after he'd finished the journey he'd borrowed it for 'because he'd put more petrol in it than he'd used on the journey'.
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BT, that loan has performed a very useful service for you - never lend the ungrateful toerag anything again. :-)
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Things can go the other way, of course...
Dad is 68 this year and has never been what you might call "mechanically sympathetic".
Last car was a perfectly serviceable '03 plate Micra, 1.0L. Nothing wrong with it- unless you fail to get it serviced. Ever. In which case, the lack of lubrication causes the timing chain to stretch, the MIL comes on, the chain and crank sensor need replaced...
This has recently been replaced by a newish Ka. Again, a great little motor- in the right hands.
Hands that take care when reversing out of of supermarket car parks, for example, causing most of the O/S rear panels to need replaced.
I could go back aways, but these are the two most recent episodes in a long catalogue. My brother and I pretty much despair of him- our advice has always fallen on deaf ears.
tt
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My niece managed to wreck the engine on whatever Renault MPV she had at the time when she decided that she could ignore the temperature warning light till she got to her dads...50 miles away.
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Thanks for all the replies. Thank you, too, Legacylad for the offer of a manual, but I have one.
I'll just close this off by saying that son's attitude seems to have had a sea-change. Maybe he has had a much-needed finger-wagging lecture from Mrs H. Maybe he's thought about his responsibilities. I'll check later.
Because of the odd hours I work, I didn't have an opportunity to supervise the belt fitting till 4pm this afternoon. When Mrs H and I got home from the strenuous painting job that's on the books at the mo, there's the AX manual on the dining-room table, open at the correct page. Son has apparently done some research. Must ask him sometime how he found it in the messy garage. Son is hovering so I decide to break the deadlock with an offer of help, light and tools. Speedily accepted and with an enthusiasm I hadn't seen before when confronted with mechanicking tasks. I slipped naturally into the arms-folded management role while son lay under car asking for tools. He took a call on the ever-present mobile to hear that the g/f had just passed her test. He then politely dismissed her, telling her he was busy fixing his car. I had to sit down with the shock.
20 mins later the car fires up on the button as usual and runs sweetly. I'm putting the jack away when I see a frown cross son's face as he peers through the driver's window,
"Dad, the red light's still on!" he calls.
Sure of my ground, with a smugness born of 40 years of being an amateur master mechanic, I reply, "I think you'll find it's the handbrake light. It's always on when the handbrake's on."
And so it was.
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Result Hawkeye ! All you have left to negotiate is him taking you for a pint for your trouble and the job, as they say...is a good 'un !
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That's more than a happy ending!
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