I passed a car who was stationary in the left lane waiting in a queue at a set of traffic lights. As I did, he sounded his horn and moved out of the left lane and drove right behind me and tried to overtake me. I was in the right lane so he tried to overtake in the lane of the oncoming traffic. I sped up and he wasn't able to overtake. At the next set of lights it was red. He stopped and came out of the car and up to the passenger window and hit it hard (no damage). His passenger also came out the car and was behind him. I lowered the window slightly and he said "what the pink fluffy dice are you doing " I just thought he was a maniac and didn't want confrontation so just said loudly "sorry". I had to say it about 3 times before he went back to his car. He tried to make a point by cutting me up afterwards but I was almost stationary and waiting to turn right anyway. What a loser. He was driving an old shape corsa. This was just a few hours ago in busy traffic.
I had thought of taking his number plate details and reporting it to the police. Not because of the incident but because I'd thought it was possible the car may have been stolen or uninsured/untaxed, they may have had weapons in the car. But I decided to turn right to my destination.
I would like to know other people's comments and views, whether have they been in that situation before and what did you do (or would have done)?
Edited by Webmaster on 19/12/2008 at 00:20
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snip
Sorry you had to go through that mind, its always a bit scary and shoudl be reported to the Police - maybe next time he will get hold of someone.
Edited by Pugugly on 19/12/2008 at 11:41
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" I sped up and he wasn't able to overtake"
I`ve never tried doing that....
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So was he waiting at the lights for you for something he thought you did earlier?
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"So was he waiting at the lights for you for something he thought you did earlier?"
NO, I just passed him and he flipped. Sounds hard to believe but that's what happened.
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I was in a car driven by my driver once. Someone tried overtaking him and he would not let them (this was Longsight Manchester mind!). It was single carriage-way as you come came under the railway bridge near Asda in Longsight if anyone knows it.
We then got to a set of lights and all four got out of that car that had been behind us. Brother quickly locked the doors but they hammered on the windows and were kicking the doors in. So he started to reverse and they went. But he then reversed into another car.... and that driver started to drag him out of the car when the doors were unlocked - despite them seeing what had happened.
Moral of the story is let other stupid drivers do what they want to. This cost my brother's company thousands in repairs. But it could have been pretty serious. This was probably 1991 so no mobiles then either.
Edited by rtj70 on 17/12/2008 at 22:11
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Sounds like you did the right thing. A friend once confronted some people who drove like loonies and got beaten up. They were a criminal gang. I am told that one appraoch is to sound the horn continuously, to attract attention, so there are witnesses. I doubt the police care, unless there are independent witnesses, and explicit threats of violence are made, or damage occurs to a vehicle, or a person. Apparently being verbally aggressive and putting someone in fear or attack is not per se a crime.
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Apparently being verbally aggressive and putting someone in fear or attack is not per se a crime.
I think that is more or less the definition of assault and is a criminal offence
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It seems to go against the grain to let someone get the better of you on the road but you really don't know the mental state of some of these people - they really could be nutters or be high on drugs. On the odd occasion I've had someone want to force their way past me I've pulled over and let them get on with it.
The other thing is that if someone is agressively trying to pass you there could be a good (to them) reason - I was called by the hospital my Dad was in and told to get there as soon as I could. Most of the journey is the 2 dual carriageway and 2 lane motorway and the number of people who sat in lane 2 and held me up was ridiculous.
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I was in the right lane so he tried to overtake in the lane of the oncoming traffic. I sped up and he wasn't able to overtake.
I am sure there must be something more dangerous than speeding up when somebody is trying to overtake, but I'm not sure I can think of it at the moment.
Grow up.
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You did the right thing and defused the situation. Just take comfort in the fact that one day, by sheer weight of odds, he's going to do it to the "wrong" person who will get out of their car, and express their displeasure at his attitude by comprehensively "knocking his bung in".
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There are some odd motorists out there.
When my dad was being loaded onto an ambulance about 2 years ago a car pulled up behind and beeped his horn for them to get out of the way! There was no where else for the ambulance to go as it was a narrow road with loads of parked cars and sadly my dad was seriously ill. I was simply steaming and when I started to walk towards the car one of the paramedics said best to leave it and concentrate on my dad.
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I thought the highway rule says you should always allow a faster car to overtake you as soon as convenient. You could never know why they were in a hurry.
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Me: "Apparently being verbally aggressive and putting someone in fear or attack is not per se a crime."
CGNorwich: "I think that is more or less the definition of assault and is a criminal offence "
No. If I was to walk up to you in the street, and start shouting at you in an aggressive manner, making you fear for your safety, that is not a criminal offence. But if I said "I'm going to kill attack you", or if I punched you, that is. At least that is how it was explained to me by the police when I was confronted in a petrol station by a rather frightening and aggressive person, and they took no action.
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Leif - I found this, but I can not vouch for its veracity:
'Threatening behaviour' is covered by Section 4 of the Public Order Act, 1986. The following is taken from www.freebeagles.org/articles/Legal_Booklet_4/lb4- 12.html
"Section 4 ? Fear or Provocation of Violence
A person is guilty if he either
a) uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or
b) distributes to another person any writing or sign which is threatening, abusive or insulting
and either
i) he intends to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person or to provoke such immediate violence, or
ii) it is likely that the person will believe that such violence will be used against him, or it is likely that such violence will be provoked."
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oldnotbold: All I can tell you is that I had someone use their car to block my exit in a petrol station, then walk up to me while I was refueling, and have a go at me in a thick unintelligible Glasgow accent. All I could understand was the F word repeated often, and a lot of verbal aggression in terms of tone of voice. The attendant thought I was at risk of attack. When I later reported this person to the police, I was told it was not a crime. When I complained in writing, I was told the same. Their attitude was that 'mentals' (their word) are commonplace. It was frightening (and I have been the victim of attempted muggings which were less frightening), but as I say, the attitude of the police was "not a crime". Now maybe had I hired an expensive lawyer, it would have been different, but not many of us can do that.
Edited by Leif on 18/12/2008 at 13:23
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mapmaker, you're trying to be a lot more clever than you really are. First, he didn't like the idea of being passed (yes, just passed at normal speed while he was stationary). Second, he was the one who tried to overtake me in the WRONG lane ie. in the lane of the oncoming traffic. When he came out of his car he hit my window and I considered 3 options:
- told him to pink fluffy dice
- gone out of the car and whacked him
- say sorry and forget it
So who needs to grow up and who was being dangerous?
The thing was, if he'd had damaged the car in any way (eg. kicked the door) I would have gone out of the car and retaliated.
Edited by Webmaster on 19/12/2008 at 00:20
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>>he was the one who tried to overtake me in the WRONG lane ie. in the lane of the
>>oncoming traffic.
Cool! So you endangered:
1. Your life
2. His life
3. The lives of oncoming car drivers and passengers
because your manhood is smaller than his? Or maybe some reason of national importance. Very grown up. I'm guessing you're about 17?
If you had behaved in a more mature fashion, you would never have ended up in the situation you describe. No doubt you will learn these things as you gain in life experience.
>>The thing was, if he'd kicked the door I would have gone out of the car and retaliated.
Uber cool. A prison sentence for assault!
Edited by Mapmaker on 18/12/2008 at 13:44
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mapmaker, you just don't get it. And you're making a fool of yourself.
Use your "brain",
HE drove on to the lane of oncoming traffic
HE was the one who flipped for NO, I mean "NO", reason and tailgated me
HE was the one who got out of the car and punched my window
I was the one who said sorry 3 times immediately to avoid confrontation
Clear enough????
If someone damages your property, insults you, assaults you, you're saying you don't have the right to defend yourself and your property? How do you know what I meant by retaliation? I won't bother explaining as it seems you've lost it.
"I'm guessing you're about 17?" Err no, I've been driving for 12+ years, no claims and accidents except for 1 no fault claim.
It's interesting you haven't commented on the actions of the lunatic driver. That says it all about you.
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mapmaker you just don't get it. And you're making a fool of yourself. Use your "brain"
Um no... I agree with Mapmaker, I in your position would have let him pass, so possible save the lives of oncoming traffic, but i would have been ready for him to do something stupid like passing then stopping.....
If someone damages your property insults you assaults you you're saying you don't have the right to defend yourself and your property?
No, these days you DO NOT have the right to defend yourself, or your property - read the papers! there have been MANY such cases where the 'innocent' party ends up under arrest!
"I'm guessing you're about 17?" Err no I've been driving for 12+ years no claims and accidents except for 1 no fault claim.
about 30 then? you still have some anger management to learn.It's interesting you haven't commented on the actions of the lunatic driver. That says it all about you.
I would say enough has been said about that idiot, with people like that, its better to let them go, and probably kill themselves.... hopefully without taking some other poor so and so with them...
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If the OP did indeed accelerate to block an overtake, then IMO that is potentially very dangerous driving. Not that it excuses dangerous driving (if that was the case) and aggressive behaviour by the other driver.
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I was in the right lane so he tried to overtake in the lane of the oncoming traffic. I sped up and he wasn't able to overtake.
I'd have let him overtake. Two dangerous drivers on the road are much more of a menace than one.
When he thumped your rear window you should have called the police (assuming you had a mobile). I doubt if they'd have done anything but if he was 'illegal' it would have put the frightners on him.
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" I sped up and he wasn't able to overtake"
Two wrongs make a right then?
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I once was on the receiving end of verbal abuse etc. from a driver who "lost it a bit". He started driving dangerously etc. behind me so instead of going to where I was I went the wrong way for a bit and he followed. I then stopped to turn the car around.
But he got out and started coming towards me. By now I'd already decided to report this to the police so wound the window down and got a mouthful of abuse from him. He eventually walked away. Unknown to him I was on the phone (handsfree) to the police control room by now and not only did they hear his outburst but they had it recorded.
Later that night (11:30pm on a Sunday) there was a knock on the door. Two traffic police apologised for coming so late but they'd been held up. They'd seen where the other car was now parked and came to get a few more details from me before going to visit the other driver. I don't think I'd have liked having two traffic policemen in their Volvo estate coming to talk to me that late at night. He might have got the message though.
Edited by rtj70 on 18/12/2008 at 13:36
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It sounds like there could have been misapprehensions for both parties here.
Perhaps he's queued in the left lane thinking the right lane was for right-turns only - saw you going past & thought 'smart alec!' - and maybe felt a bit of a fool himself also.
The horn beep may have been accidental - perhaps quickly grabbing the wheel to get into the right lane - it seems he was actaully intending to go straight on from the description - then assumed you were blocking his progress.
I'm not in any way condoning his aggressive & childish behaviour - but he obviously thought he was the 'wronged' party.
As others have said, you just don't know the motivations & mental landscapes of other people - I always assume other people are nutters until proved otherwise & act accordingly in those type of situations. It sounds like you acted sensibly in letting him have his little victory when you said sorry though. Don't worry, the Darwinian principle invariably catches up with drivers like that - just don't be around to be the 'natural selector' when it happens!
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To be honest, if was me I don't think I would have liked them to pass me either. If had another drive sound horn for no reason, then deviate to tailgate me I would have to assume bad intentions.
Other driver could have wanted to force the op off the road or to stop- or got in front to do an emergency stop and force op into a crash (someone recently tried to the latter to a friend).
Best option may have been to look for a sideroad, so can disappear into it whilst they're overtaking.
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Leif wrote: ...if I start shouting at you in an aggressive manner, making you fear for your safety, that is not a criminal offence....
Mmm - try the legal definition of affray for starters:
"That you used or threatened unlawful violence, and that a person of reasonable firmness, present at the scene, would fear for their personal safety."
Think that about covers it.
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As usual, though, it takes a determined officer to push it through. CPS standards mean a lot of cases just fall away.
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"That you used or threatened unlawful violence and that a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene would fear for their personal safety." Think that about covers it.
No it doesn't. The other person did not use physical violence, and neither did he explicitly threaten violence. The threat of violence was implicit in the tone of voice. As to whether that constitutes violence, well probably not, as it is too subjective. Of course I'm not a copper, or solicitor, so I can only go on what I was told ...
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Just noticed oldnotbold is ahead of me further up the thread by mentioning a "section 4" Public Order Act offence.
Section 4 is beneath affray in the criminal pecking order.
If affray is not made out in the example given, section 4 almost certainly must be.
In old parlance, "threatening behaviour," which this clearly was.
Put it this way, if you told the copper his pension depended on this bloke being charged with something, he'd be in the magistrates' court quicker than you could say: "Good evening all".
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Mmm ... re the suggestion of affray ... may I mention Sanchez?
[/Mexican accent]
Edited by GroovyMucker on 18/12/2008 at 20:38
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Focus1.8TDCi
You did the right thing. It really hurts when you acceed to an idiot but you don't regret it later. It is unclear whether you might have rubbed this guy up the wrong way, perhaps unintentionally, to cause him to "break". Perhaps you committed the crime of "not letting me out of a junction when you should"
.*********
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FocusDriver, I'd just simply passed him while he was stationary - nothing more, nothing less. An earlier poster said
"Perhaps he's queued in the left lane thinking the right lane was for right-turns only - saw you going past & thought 'smart alec!' - and maybe felt a bit of a fool himself also". That could have been the reason, or may not. Your guess is as good as mine.
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Ah, I used a mild swear word so I've been bleeped. Quite right.
One of my more interesting pieces of utter drivel but never mind.
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Some months ago , in daylight I was almost sideswiped by a young blood in the obligatory black BMW trying to change lane on the approach to a roundabout. A generous dose of horn told him I was right beside him. He sped up, got in front of me and got to the line first. Getting out of his car, incandescent with rage, he saw that I was twice his size as I sat there looking at him. He soon scuttled back to his car and sped away into the distance. I don't let these turnips worry or intimidate me. Just let them go on their way, they'll hit something sooner or later. Really shouldn't be on the road if you can't see a big FWD a foot from your side window !
Ted
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I saw an incident in the same vein today.
A fellow undertook someone, then cut them up, then when they beeped, he braked hard infront of them causing them to skid, then he raced up behind me and queued up. On seeing the car that beeped at him 200M back coming up the right hand lane, he moved out to block them passing him and only let them go when the lights changed - I let him pass me quick and he went flying through town.
I was scared for the other driver, they did nothing wrong really except be in his way.
Edited by rtj70 on 18/12/2008 at 23:27
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Apologies for the earlier post that then was edited. No offense intended.
Edited by rtj70 on 18/12/2008 at 23:28
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Some months ago in daylight I was almost sideswiped by a young blood in the obligatory black BMW trying to change lane on the approach to a roundabout.
Yes, sadly using the horn for a legitimate reason can cause road rage. Then again, having moved away from Luton, I have less need to warn other drivers that they are about to be involved in an accident if they don't wake up. ;)
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there are too many "fingerwaggers" on here who think it's their job to tell other peoiple how to drive and to point out faults, the most infuriating example being "you shouldn't have been speeding should you" after someone gets caught out doing 32 past a hidden camera.
When the fool in the old corsa tried to overtake the OP may well have been right to speed up. We can't see the road don't forget. The old corsa might have wanted to block the OP in so he had a better vantage point to launch his attack.
I've been chased by angry motorists who let road rage get the better of them. It's disgusting and they are beneath contempt.
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Hi Focus1.8TDCi,
I sympathise with your situation. There are way too many nutcases and sad individuals on the road who are clearly exorcising some kind of angst on their fellow motorists. You've obviously fallen foul of this, and its going to take some time to get over. Bear in mind that the vast majority of your fellow motorists are sane and rational though.
However, there is one matter I would take you (and some others on this post) to task on- speeding up when another motorist attempts to overtake is dangerous and potentially provocative. I don't know if there were any restrictive markings on the road, but if there were none then the other driver was doing nothing illegal- the onus is on the other driver to ensure that they have read the road properly and can make the manoeuvre. No-one else can make that decision for him.
The sensible and safe thing to do is slow down, let them complete the overtake. You'll get to your destination with less hassle , the nutter will move on to another victim.
tt
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Who knows why this guy was originally upset. People change the moment they get behind a wheel and a thugs mentality will be enhanced.
The OP may have upset him before the 'not allowing to overtake' part. Maybe something happened half a mile back that the OP didn't realise and the thug waited for him to catch up. I bet everyone here has been cut up by another driver at some time and the other driver has absolutely no knowledge of having done so. Nobody's perfect but constant awareness of your surroundings help.
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TDCi, let it go.
Today I had nutter who cut me up on dual carriageway- he pushed in from the left after under taking, then proceeded to mimse along. (He got a flash of headlights and I kept on my way.)
At the roundabout at the end of the dual carriageway he proceeded to ignore the lane priority which is clearly marked on the roundabout, and decided he would try to just muscle in front of me again. Unfortunately for him, my posiition was correct so he had brake or hit me, or the oncoming reservation.
At the next set of lights this poison dwarf and his troglodyte of a wife are out shouting and swearing at me, as if it was my fault he doesn't have any real driving ability, or spacial awareness. Just love it how when you are bright enough to let other peoples bad driving go you are accosted because they are too stupid / small minded to understand that they have made a mistake and if anything it should be you out shouting and swearing at them.
Still, big silly car payments, expensive diesel costs, ugly wife and kids, credit crunch, hopefully he'll lose his job if he hasn't already, nothing I could do to him would outweigh or better what these idiots will do to themselves or already have.
Considered going to the boys in blue about this as they were threatening me and my missus with violence in the middle of the road, but really, what is the point? Local police interested only in easy collars, and our word against theirs at the end of the day. Still, if I had landed one on him like I wanted to, I would have been the bad guy.
These things happen, I'm getting on with my life, and so should you. Don't change your habits because of these morons, just sit and be happy that natural selection and their inbred stupidity will surely rid the world of them. Hopefully before they breed.
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mr. wednesday, why did the troglodyte have to undertake in the first place?
were you just at the end of a section of dual carriageway? jag.
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Jag, Two lane left hander at start of dual carriageway decent length queue in both lanes. (He was well back in the left lane at the lights.) Lights change, everybody sets off, his progress in his lane obviosuly not fast enough so proceeds to weave back and forth between lanes - hence interpreted as overtaking on the left. Moving to right hand lane ok, no problem, but then to try and slip round steady moving traffic by dipping into the slower lane and back, daft and stupid when you need to muscle back in - or plough into the car in front.
I'm really not guilty on this one, are you suggesting I was mimsing?
Ironically, saw an equally silly manouver earlier today when a small car which had to slow in a queue of traffic approaching a set of lights at the end of this dual carriageway was promptly hit from behind, as instead of being a little more patient in the queue and getting home without incident, had to pull out from a near stationary line of traffic into a lane which had traffic moving in excess of forty miles an hour without considering /checking for other traffic.
Can Christmas really be an excuse for such poor quality driving? I mean, I know we all suffer from some stress and strain as the end of the year looms, and none of us a saints, me anyway, but with some consideracy and patience these things could have been avoided.
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It's notable that some posters on here have regularish run ins with other drivers; and some don't. I suggest that it takes two to have a fight.
So what if somebody undertakes you? You're a "much better" driver than he is, so you saw him, no problems? Or what have I missed on this?
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So what if somebody undertakes you? You're a "much better" driver than he is so you saw him no problems? Or what have I missed on this?
If you have been undertaken you are probably in the wrong lane, causing frustration to other drivers and not a "much better" driver.
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Mapmaker, you make a fair point. The undertaking was only an issue due to the bullish nature in which it was completed, further in my post I pointed out that he had also made a hash of a clearly marked roundabout- nearly to the detriment of my wing. (It is possible he was just incompetent, too short to see his mirrors over his door, or just a dolt.) None of it was an invitation to get out the car and get in my face.
Thanks OldNavy, however my post wasn't an invitation to invite critique or get into a who's better who's best type of argument. As I said, I'm no Saint, but this time my Sinner hat wasn't on either. It was to highlight to TDCi that while I had travelled along a road showing proper control and lane discipline, this idiot and his wife thought it more appropriate to jump out of their vehicle and attempt to berate myself at a set of traffic lights, rather than to accept that they had driven in an incompetent manner.
As I didn't start off at the head of either queue and was faced with the same obstructions to making proper progress I fail to see how the cause of frustration was down to myself. His final undertaking of me didn't get him to the front of the lone or into any clearer road.
Still, whatever his issues were, getting out at the first oportunity and go off at someone, well, to me that underlines their instability and would have me describe him as TDCi put it, a 'nutter on the road'.
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I can empathise with TDCI and MrWednesday after an incident I was involved in about 6 months ago. A car overtook me at speed on a short stretch of dual carriageway that had recently been 'resurfaced' - you know the scenarion where the final stage is to dump a load of gravel on the tarmac and let the vehicles compact it. of course there were signs indicating the loose chippings and a speed limit of 20mph, so when this guy sped past at about 60mph showering the the front of my car with the chippings Ihad the audacity to flash him. He slowed almost to stop on the dual carriageway bringing the traffic to a stop, waving his arms around and jumping up and down in his seat. I just indicated with my hands that he should move on and he did until we reached a two-way stretch of road and were caught in a small tailback behind a bin lorry. He got out of the car and I lowered my window about 6 inches hopefully enough to show I wasn't scared of him but not sufficient to let him get at me easily. he launched into a tirade of foul language and threats about me flashing him I didn't get a chance to explain why I flashed him.
I was frankly shocked by the bloke's rage, so much so that I didn't get his reg. I regretted that afterwards because I really believe that the police need to look into this guy.
In a strange sort of way I'm proud of myself for not reacting in any way (I just looked him in the eye and listened to his opinions of me - swearing etc), but I do wonder what would have happened if he'd tried to hit me or started kicking my car. I'd probably be down the job centre.
Best to let it go and move on. Not always easy, I kow!
Edited by rtj70 on 22/12/2008 at 00:16
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