***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 10 *****
This is a sub forum to discuss the problems associated with the ever changing cost of fuel.
This is Volume 9. It will be locked after approx 100 replies and another volume opened.
Usual rules apply.
Any newly opened threads surrounding fuel costs will be moved in here.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/06/2009 at 11:16
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After what must be the briefest price war in history, I noticed today that diesel in the North West has started to edge back to the £1.00 lt and above. Several supermarkets that had it at .98.9 for the last week have upped it to .99.9 some time since the weekend. Some independent fuel sellers have moved back to the £1.00.9 from .99.9.
Petrol doesn't seem to have been affected and the reductions have stuck. Saw that at .87.9 at a lot of places. What has happened over the last couple of weeks ?. I know the pound has slipped against the dollar but fuel has been around the $45 a barrel mark for the best part of 9 weeks.
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Still below £1 round here - even saw it at 97.9!
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Not much of a price war in the East Midlands. 99.9p is the lowest diesel price, still, I've seen recently. But I am only a petrol head nowadays.;>)
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Well, the oil price did rise a few days ago, but is falling again, but not yet back to the low of the start of the month.
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They have the excuse of a weak Pound.
Odd how when Sterling was all powerful we weren't getting cheap fuel then... or cheap cars for that matter.
Good ole' mugs us Brits in rip-off land. Must remember to bend over the next time we go to fill up.
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99.9 pretty much everywhere in these parts too.
I was only commenting to a colleague this morning that the price gap between petrol and diesel seems to have fallen in recent weeks from 15p to around 12p.
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At 12 pence, that still equates to around .54 pence a gallon ( remember them ! ) difference between derv and petrol.
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Good ole' mugs us Brits in rip-off land. >>
No matter how deep in the economic poo we get, rip off Britain will be fit and well.
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Odd how when Sterling was all powerful we weren't getting cheap fuel then... or cheap cars for that matter.
tawse: Perhaps you would care to back up your claim with a table/chart for the last 24 months showing:
month, and for that month
$:£ conversion rate
the price of fuel in £ at the pumps [excluding fuel duty],
the price of barrels of oil in $,
that price converted to £.
Until you do so, your claim is nothing really but a baseless rant.
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Snip quote
You have to be really gulliable if you think otherwise. What kind of anal person asks for info like that? Gee, get a life!
Edited by rtj70 on 17/12/2008 at 18:01
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Well Tawse and jbif, I don't have the figures for road fuel but I can tell you that when the price of a barrel of oil was consistently rising, I could always predict how much it would cost to fill my tank of heating oil - for example when oil hit $140 a barrel and the exchange rate was $2/£1, it cost £700 to fill up. Now at say $1.50/£1 and $45 a barrel it should cost £300. The lowest quote I can get is £410. Maybe suppliers of petrol/derv are trying the same trick - quick to react when it goes up, drag their feet when it goes down.
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... $140 a barrel and the exchange rate was $2/£1, it cost £700 to fill up. Now at say $1.50/£1 and $45 a barrel it should cost £300.
The flaw in that calculation is demonstrated if you consider the case of free oil, i.e. at $0 per barrel. In case you cannot see it, it is called the fixed costs of delivering to your tank at your property. The supplier has overheads that need to be paid regardless of whether the oil costs $0, $45, or $140 and regardless of the exchange rate being $1.50 or $2 or whatever.
[To make it easier for you, think of it like the callout charge that you pay when a repair person comes round to fix your faulty appliances. Even though the repair may be just a washer or a carbon brush cosing a few pennies, a repair technician will charge his/her fixed callout charge.]
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Good point jbif, but I doubt it costs £110 to deliver oil to my property :)
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Good point jbif, but I doubt it costs £110 to deliver oil to my property :)
1. The price you pay is based on the cost of stocks held by the supplier, not his restocking costs.
2. The fixed portion of the cost is not just the cost of delivery, but the whole costs of his premises, staff, rates, rent, utilities, elf&safety, insurance, tankers, drivers, accountants, lawyers, council and gubermint busybodies taking up time, etc. etc., plus a little profit margin.
As I said, it does not cost £50 to change a 5p washer, yet that is what a plumber may charge you.
Edited by jbif on 18/12/2008 at 09:54
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The lowest quote I can get is £410
yeoman: How does your heating oil price compare with prices given here?
www.boilerjuice.com/heatingOilPrices.php
www.oilpricecheck.co.uk/latest.htm
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Hi jbif, I use boilerjuice, saves ringing round but doesn't usually undercut by more than about £10 per 1000 litres. Current price for my postcode (4 quotes) varies from 39.15p to a staggering 58.95p per litre for 1000 litres. With the VAT that's £410, same as last time I checked a few days ago.
Edited by yeoman on 18/12/2008 at 10:36
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Prices in Merseyside still around 98.9 p p litre as of 16:45pm .
If you see fuel at £1.00 p litre just drive on by...
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I did.. at least twice. Both times from garages that where previously .98.9 and .99.9 just two days ago.
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Isn't diesel distantly related to heating oil? Isn't it getting colder? Isn't demand for heating oil going up at this time of year? Thus diesel price rising? I did wonder what we were paying for petrol and diesel when oil was $40 a barrel on the way up. I bet it was a lot less than it is now with the price on the way down but I can't prove it or be bothered to do the research!
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It's going to back up again by a fair bit - oil production cuts are coming.
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And there is less capacity to refine crude oil into diesel but the demand for diesel cars went up in recent years.
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I'll take a punt at derv being back to around £1.15 come the end of Feb.
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Off to France this weekend armed with a calculator. With the collapse of the pound against the euro in the context of lower oil prices - will it be worth going over with an almost empty tank or not?
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>Off to France this weekend - will it be worth going over with an almost empty tank or not?
Could be I suppose. But remembering when (a few years ago) that was a no-brainer when going to France or Ireland, what must the French or Irish have said watching their prices rising faster than ours have?
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>>> It's going to back up again by a fair bit - oil production cuts arecoming.
Don't be too sure, just yet anyway:
newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7786456.stm
From Weds 17th December:
"Despite the record cut, oil prices continued to fall as US data provided fresh evidence of falling demand. US light, sweet crude for January fell as low as $39.94 a barrel, its first time been below $40 since July 2004."
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Some one tell the forecourts on the A64. Seen derv at £1.04.9 today. If it were a Motorway I could accept the usual excuses but this is an A road.
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This is a sub forum to discuss the problems associated with the ever increasing cost of fuel.
Isn't it now ever decreasing?
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It was but derv is rising quite fast again.....
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Not round here - 97.9p for Shell diesel and it's been that for a couple of weeks - cheaper than the local supermarkets.
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You lucky lot!
Diesel hasn't dropped below 101.9p in my local area, even at my Shell station which is always the cheapest around me.
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Diesel has gone from 94.9 to 97.9 in 7 days at my local Morrissons with the two other nearby supermarkets following with in hours.
Now putting a side the fall of the pound and a few cold days in the United States, we are still seeing oil at $41 a barrel and have done for 3 months now.
Looks like the pound a litre figure will be common place by the mid of Feb. Must be the shortest price war in history. Noticed petrol has increased as well by 3p a litre at most of my supermarkets.
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Now putting a side the fall of the pound
you can't ignore that though - it's fallen a very significant amount.
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Took a stroll up to the Tesco's near the office at lunchtime to grab a sandwich, and diesel there is up over a quid again.
Petrol going up slower, so the gap is getting bigger again. 15p/ltr gap at this particular outlet, so if I had the diesel version of my car it would be nearly ten quid more to fill up. Makes quite a dent in the diesel's cost advantage, even if it doesn't completely wipe it out.
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Dervs 3p a lt rise is the equivalent of 14p a gallon. I don't understand how these price rises are happening over days rather than months as we must be talking about oil bought and refined months ago when the pound was higher against the dollar and oil was at $40 a barrel .
Don't forget there is another 2p plus vat to go on in 2 months time as well as a further 2.5% vat increase by the end of this year.
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Unleaded now at 89p at my local Morrisons and £1.00 for diesel.
It's going to get ridiculous again.
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Its at 85.9 for UL in Northampton as of yesterday.
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Hauliers have been quiet for a while but an almost weekly increase in derv prices might re awaken them. They suffered from the drop in Vat to 15% as they are now reclaiming less on fuel but paying more due to the excise duty increase.
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Over the last couple of weeks the price has steadily risen. Tonight 102.9 a litre.
Any reason for the sudden increase?
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Probably a result of OPEC's cut in production.
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Oil has risen from $38 to $55 at the start of the month and is still $45.5 at at the moment so I guess it is an aggregate of this.
Edited by Hamsafar on 26/01/2009 at 22:41
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Plus oil companies greed. They know they can get away with it in the UK a lot easier than they can in other european countries. Even with the low pound-dollar situation, still around $45 dollars a barrel. My view is that it will be back to an average of £1.18 by the end of Feb.
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Bet you all forgot that fuel duty is set to rise by 1.84 ppl plus vat on first April 2009.
It was in the pre budget report on 24th November 2008 and as yet has yet to be with drawn.
I seem to remember that this time last year gormless gordon promised no more fuel duty rises.
This is not an early April fools joke this information came to me at work from the Petroleum Retailers Association.
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No, not forgotten. The duty on derv is set to rise by 2p plus vat if I'm not mistaken. That should wipe out the small fall to 97.9 in my area. Just the sort of news business's need at present.
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yep more details (and comments) here :-
www.petrolprices.com/blog/duty-rise-set-to-bring-f...l
yet another kick in the teeth...
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Seems this govt is obsessed with having derv at a minimum of £1 a litre, no matter what market forces are in operation. The duty rise will make sure it hits that £1.00
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Wow ! just over a £1 a tankful, financial doom and gloom for me ;0)
Gordon's got to get the money he's throwing at failing banks and businesses back from somewhere, why not us affluent motorists ;0)
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I got Shell diesel for 94.9 last weekend, not a million miles from Warrington. It did seem unusually cheap ...
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Oil jumped to over $50 a barrel today so with the low dollar - pound rate, expect to see another 2p a litre plus Gordons grab by mid April.
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And why shouldn't gordon the moron take a bit extra? He does so much for the average working (driving) man, and his team provide excellent road transport networks and a public transport system second to none!
Recession? Surely not. ;-)
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Has anyone noticed that the usual price difference between petrol and diesel has diminished?
Used to be around 6 to 8 pence a litre but I passed a garage today and they were both the same price! Why?
The price is up to around £1.00 a litre yet oil is $66 a barrel. Let's hope it doesn't go up to the bad old days of $120 a barrel. How much would it be a litre then?
Perhaps they were hoping we wouldn't notice...
Bend over.
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i agree these prices grind you down
but you need to protect windscreens and things from the sparks :-)
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I am very pleased to see this gap diminished, as it was a huge rip-off having diesel oil selling for more than petrol anywhere, and as far as I know the UK is the only place where this is so.
Fuel is still too expensive though, given the recent oil prices.
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I guess diesel is cheap as there is less demand for heating oil at the moment. At my local filling in station in Munich, diesel is 1,01 Euros, Super Unleaded is up to 1,30 Euros (ouch).
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Anyone remember when diesel was cheaper than petrol? So everyone went out and bought a diesel car. Then, surprise surprise, the price rocketed. Excuse being it wasn't a clean fuel. The environment and all that. Let's all get our cars converted to lpg and see what happens to that. That's a clean fuel, surely they won't increase the price of that if we all converted, would they?
Bend over. And over.
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Don't worry we'll all be getting a discount when Kim Jong-il starts letting his WMD off (more than 45 mins. from London you see).
I paid 94 cents last week in Holland for a litre of diesel.
I'm surprised the Government hasn't made diesel 11% dearer than petrol by default as diesel has 11% more energy per litre.
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Ah, but you see, according to the fuel companies there's a significant time lag between the price of oil and the price we see at the pumps. That's why it instantly rockets up to follow the price of oil but takes months to drop afterwards. It's also due to the weakness of the pound against the dollar, and since Sterling is at its highest for months ($1.66 IIRC), the price of fuel must go up to match.
Don't you love oil company logic?
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Diesel is now cheaper than petrol in Spain, after a period when it was more expensive.
Gasoleo A (ordinary diesel) is around 86 to 88 centimos a litre.
*Smug mode on*
I filled up our Fabia, to the absolute brim yesterday. I squeezed in 50 litres and paid £31.75 for it. Where - Gibraltar, where "cooking" diesel is £0.63.5 per litre at every single filling station!
*Smug mode off*
Edited by malteser on 31/05/2009 at 16:53
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Price difference between the the two fuels is down to a little as 1p per litre at some stations round here as demand for diesel slumps due to oversupply.
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For the first time in years I have seen petrol at 1p more than diesel at one of my regular filling stations. It almost made me happy to fill up!
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Diesel about 3p/litre difference around Grantam but the fuel price itself varied by up to 6p a litre, depending on where you buy it. Sainsburys 99.9p, Total garage on the A1 105.9.
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I feel pretty strongly about this, but there never seems to be a reasonable explanation. In my area, at the moment, Unleaded is 100.9p a litre, Diesel is 103.9p a litre.
When crude dropped, it dropped around 65% a barrel, but only 30% at the pumps.Now as it is going in the 'upwards' direction, the % rise, is like for like.If crude ever returns to the prie it was at, we are in deep poo. Unleaded has increased from 82.9p a litre in January to 100.9p a litre in June. 18p a litre rise (22%), yet it is not getting mention at all on the news and we are in the middle of a credit crunch.Crude is still only at $65 a barrel and we are at 100.9p a litre.At its peak ($147 a barrel) we were paying 118.9p a litre. I fear the worst !!!
(In the midst of all this, Diesel seems to be untouched). Why???
Edited by Pugugly on 03/06/2009 at 19:48
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When crude dropped, it dropped around 65% a barrel, but only 30% at the pumps.Now as >> it is going in the 'upwards' direction, the % rise, is like for like.
Even more bizarre when you look at how Sterling has risen against the US$ in the past three months.
The problem with an essential such as petrol and diesel is that we set ourselves up to be fleeced, and can do little about it.
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Cue traditional excuse from oil companies; it's now the "US driving season".
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its a shambles.Another 2p will go on in September - the Government has to fill the black hole that is the economy. The 'formula' that is used to determine the price structure for the prices at the pumps seems to change to suit the supplier. They simply move a figure here and add a figure there and we, the consumer just get totally shafted.
'If' the price of crude returns to $147 a barrel, based on the rises we are seeing now, we will be paying approx £2.23 a litre ($66 - $147 is a 123% rise) and the %rise at the moment is like for like.
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'If' the price of crude returns to $147 a barrel based on the rises we are seeing now we will be paying approx £2.23 a litre ($66 - $147 is a 123% rise) and the %rise at the moment is like for like.
Fuel is still affordable at the moment (£1 a litre), IMO, its only when it hits around the £2 mark that people will start to struggle and are forced to consider alternatives.
The price of oil has dropped a bit today, I doubt we will see oil over $100 this year. However, if the global ecomonmy picks up next year, it could easily pass $100 and could even hit $200.
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Fuel is still affordable at the moment (£1 a litre) IMO its only when it hits around the £2 mark that people will start to struggle
You're clearly employed and on a good salary. In common with lots of other people we're retired and my occupational pension is fixed. We have no public transport so we're totally reliant on my car. We'd struggle long before the price of petrol got to £2 per litre.
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You're clearly employed and on a good salary. In common with lots of other people we're retired and my occupational pension is fixed. We have no public transport so we're totally reliant on my car. We'd struggle long before the price of petrol got to £2 per litre.
I'm currently unemployed and with a young family and no public transport we are also reliant on a car. Hence, my interest in the price of oil/petrol/diesel. What I see around my way is that most people drive big cars/SUVs/4x4/BMWs/Merc etc, rather than toyota aygos. Therefore, I come to the conclusion that the price of fuel is not currently an issue for most.
As is often mentioned on this site, motoring is a privilege, one that is likely to get very expensive in the future.
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I come to the conclusion that the price of fuel is not currently an issue for most
Surely it will be an 'issue' (do you mean a problem?), but most people who have to drive a car will not change that car just because of changes in fuel cost, unless it becomes extremely expensive. They will probably drive less, or possibly get on a bike.
As an intermittent, rather than a regular, driver, my impression is that the roads are noticeably less congested than they were a year or more ago.
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It's a no win situation. You realise that you can't afford to cover the cost of your fuel because you own a guzzler but you can't chop it in for something more economical because it's lost so much value and you need a hefty wad to start over a fresh.
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Cue traditional excuse from oil companies; it's now the "US driving season". >>
No, actually it is to do with the price of forward hedging contracts that were struck by traders [including those acting on behalf of the airlines] 6 months ago for delivery now.
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Good ole' mugs us Brits in rip-off land.
I wonder how many people think about how they're ripping off their employer when the time comes round to negotiate a wage rise!
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I wonder how many people think about how they're ripping off their employer when the time comes round to negotiate a wage rise!
Completely different scenario. The word "negotiate" for starters. I don't recall having any input whatsoever into the pump price of fuel.
An employer can always refuse an increase. Staff member puts up with it, or leaves. It happens every day of the week. Fuel prices are imposed. Fuel is essential to the very fabric of our society.
We have no choice, and are therefore in a prime position to be ripped off.
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The word "negotiate" for starters.
I'm sorry I worded that badly. What I should have said was "demand", not "negotiate".
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I'm sorry I worded that badly. ............
The point I was trying to make is that people only direct the term "rip-off" towards suppliers or the government. How often do you devote the whole of the working week to the interests of your employer? How many hours per week are you "ripping off" your employer? Come on now, be honest.
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Do not really see the relevance to this topic. Maybe you should start another thread?
We already get taxed on our salaries then get taxed again on fuel. The government control what happens and we,the consumer cannot do anything about it. If the Government are filling the black hole, that is the economy, they willl be delighted, on the other hand, if people are forced into a position that they cannot afford a car as a 'luxury' something else will get taxed heavily to compensate. I for one, currently work 40 miles from my flat.I have an 80 mile round trip 4 days a week.I cannot afford a home closer to my work due to the ridiculous house prices. I work continental shifts (7am-7pm) so I cannot use public transport AND I car share with other people.
The figures at the pumps,relative to the price of crude do not add up.They did not add up on the downward trend and do not make sense in this upward trend.
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As we await the next two pence duty increase just two months away and the extra 2.5% Vat at Christmas, I read these wise words this morning.
'The Chancellor said the volatile oil price - which this week reached an eight-month high above 73 dollars a barrel - had "the potential to be a huge problem as far as the recovery is concerned".
"We've got to convince everyone, including some of the Gulf states, who really have been badly affected by this downturn in their broader economies, it is in no one's interest that we allow a high oil price to impede recovery.'.
tinyurl.com/lhyvtv
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Well at least in the Highlands it is. In fact yesterday when I filled up normal unleaded was one pence more than diesel. Today Tesco have them both at the same price.
Really strange, although as a diesel driver I'm not complaining.
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Down in Hampshire, my local Shell has diesel 1p more than unleaded, which is the closest I've seen for years. Morrisons still have diesel priced 6p higher.
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Another 1p a litre today. 2p a week !!! Smashing. Cant wait to see the price by Christmas. What recession? lol
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Yeah, for a while there my petrol car was costing the same per mile in fuel as my similar sized diesel one which was strangely discomfiting for some reason. Anyway I sold the petrol one last month so the price difference doesn't matter to me any more really. Just hope ( in vain probably ) that prices don't go berserk again anytime soon.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 09/06/2009 at 20:31
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Anyway I sold the petrol one last month so the price difference doesn't matter to me any more really
So I go and get busy with work and miss the sale of the Signum? The kids and wife won out there then and the beloved Mondeo estate kept?
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Yes, for now anyway.
The decision to sell the Signum was more led by a succession of niggly problems with the Vauxhall though when set against the absolutely fault free Ford. Despite its advancing years and huge mileage it has, thus far at least, refused to break.
Could still be persuaded into buying something though..........
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Having said all that, being honest, there was a bit of a cheer chez Backbridge when the Mondeo was spared !
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I read in the paper today that ASDA is selling diesel at the same price as petrol, and that analysts believe diesel will soon be cheaper than petrol (due to USA thisrt for unleaded) Anyone else see this news?
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I saw that somewhere today as well Mail/Express I think one has the time to ponder any number of free rags delivered to the Home for Terminally Bewildered where I'm currently residing. Anyway the bike is fuelled up and ready for my Steve McQueen type getaway tomorrow - where's that baseball.
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Not seen that report. However one of the two filling stations here in my town in SW Scotland is selling non-leaded at 4p/litre dearer than diesel. (108.9/104.9) He is the only one doing that though.
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My local ASDA has been selling both petrol and diesel at 100.9p for several days. At most of the local (central Scotland) fuel retailers the price is the same for both.
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Think it was a BP station but might have been a Texaco I passed today where there was only a 1p premium for diesel.
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My local Tesco Express (Reading) has both petrol and diesel at 101.9 today. 13p difference a few weeks ago.
Still don't regret swapping my diesel Fiat Stilo for the petrol Mazda 6 though. And I'm getting a bit fed up with the diesel Touran we have in town driving. Fantastic on the open road it is, but I'm seldom out of town these days so its drawbacks such as lack of immediate throttle response are getting tiresome. Wishing we'd got a petrol powered one now. But then, when I fancy a blast, I can just jump in the Smart Roadster, drop the roof, and head in to the South Oxfordshire countryside. It's medicinal.
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The desperate Socialists in Spain have just slapped 2.9 cents a litre on fuel prices.
Just what we need with 4 million unemployed!
Ordinary unleaded is now around 1.05 cents a litre. (Diesel is about 97 to 98 cents). Taking the exchange rate GBP/Euro into account that's not far off a quid a litre - in a country where many people struggle by on 1000 euros a month and where we expats, paid in GBP, have seen our real euro income drop by 30%.
Thank goodness we are only 20 minutes from Gib where diesel is 63.5p per litre.
Edited by malteser on 18/06/2009 at 10:30
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Passed a Texaco ( pretty sure it was one of theirs ) station on Merseyside yesterday were derv was £1.11 a lt and petrol £1.09. On a main route out of the City and not some backwater. was rather surprised.
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Will the on going situation relating to walk outs at the various oil Refineries in the country lead to fuel shortages ?
tinyurl.com/ln7mkd
There is all ready talk about energy shortages because of disruption in the power stations but I see a large number of oil refineries have lost staff to walk outs.
Any one spotted any abnormal fore court queues yet ?
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Any one spotted any abnormal fore court queues yet ?
no...but i've just gone out and done my bit for 'panic buying' are wifey's car was running on fumes
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I keep my tank full in the good times as I never know when I am going to be called on to move sharpish. I am down to half so I will be filling up first thing sat. I suspect as the news of these events sink in, stations will start to get a lot busier.
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I don't care anymore. If I can't get to my customers to heck with it. Nobody pays my bills on time anymore anyway. When they do half of the cheques bounce or they want to have 6 months credit interest free or a price which makes me a loss or they go bust while they still owe me money..If they have to wait to see me because there's no fuel so be it.
Llamedos, backwards.....
:-(
Apart from that, things are great thanks. Signs of green shoots apparently.
Better now thanks.....
:-)
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