Good.
I was amused yesterday by the antics of drivers in one of our local towns. There is a large pay and display car park outside a shopping mall. Drivers were queueing and waiting for the limited spaces and generally blocking the whole thing up while they waited for spaces to become free. You could see tempers being lost as they fought to gain access to spaces.
Less than 100 yards away is a free car park which was half empty. People are so lazy that they would rather queue and pay to gain a few yards. Lots of them were fat too, which maybe tells its own tale.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 15/12/2008 at 11:55
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Sainsbury in my town had started issuing automated PCN if you are minutes over by 2 hours limit. They actually display a notice saying vehicles will be clamped if you park there over 2 hours.
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Two of the local supdermarkets round here are doing the same with Parent and child spaces... good on 'em!
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Any supermarket that wishes to impose such rules on me when I am spending upwards of £50 or more will find my custom going else where.
As for this disabled parking malarky, I'll make this my one and only comment on the matter-
I fully understand the concept of the special parking and the reason for it , how ever, in the last 10 years, the sort of disabilities included in the term ' disabled ' has been increased beyond all reasonable comprehension.
Further more, I fail to see how some one who claims the need to park yards from the front door due to difficulty in walking, is then able to pace the aircraft hanger sized superstores complete with a loaded trolley with no difficulty what so ever. The distance covered is many times more than the short walk from special car spot to door.
Where arethe special disabled tills to prevent such people having to stand any longer then necessary ?
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Disabled spaces are not just close to the store - there are plenty of other spaces at my local store which are just as close so thats a poor, poor arguement.
The most important aspect of disabled spaces is the access around the car as some disabled people cannot stand or not for any length of time, so it is helpful to be able to take a wheel chair to the door of the car and in the case of my grandmother, open the door wide as she has little feeling in her legs, so has to manually haul them into the car, which is impossible if she only has 2 ft access inbetween cars.
Tesco atleast have two 'Martcarts' which allow those who cannot walk to do their shopping. They also will lend you a member of staff for those who cannot manage to get all their shopping and also have many wheelchairs on offer.
The disabled badge criteria is NOT up for discussion here ( that is a governmental policy not related directly to motoring ), I was bring the new policing to the attention to those in the BR for which this matter is very real. It is to my mind, something of a breakthrough.
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I support sensible disabled space provision, but it seems that the pandering berks are having a competition over how many they have, regardless of the utilisation figures for them. Also, during the last 10 years, we have seen virtually every skiving unemployed oik get a dole-pole and pretend to be disabled to get extra benefits such that they can afford to drive around all day while everyone else is at work keeping them in TV subscriptions and nylon leisure suits.
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I see I am not a lone voice in the wilderness. Thank you Hamsafar.
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Regardless of the fact there might well be (or might not be) nylon clad people with badges who shouldn't have them... the rest of us won't know the difference between a genuine case or a non genuine case, so shouldn't be parking in disabled bays
I wholeheartedly welcome rigid policing of it as it is incredibly selfish to park in one if you're able bodied (as it is to use a relatives badge or apply for one when you don't need one).
if supermarket A adopts this policy and supermarket B doesn't...i'd go out of my way to avoid supermarket B
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I wholeheartedly welcome rigid policing of it as it is incredibly selfish to park in one if you're able bodied (as it is to use a relatives badge or apply for one when you don't need one).
For once, I can wholeheartedly agree with with Westpig! Spot on.
As for Mr X, who wrote:
Any supermarket that wishes to impose such rules on me when I am spending upwards of £50 or more will find my custom going else where.
95% or more of the spaces in my local supermarket carpark are not reserved for disabled people, so I don't see why you think that these rules impede an able-bodied person at all.
I hope that the supermarkets are ready to tell people with your attitude that they don't want your business. Disabled people spend money just like you do, and it's the same colour of cash, so if it's a choice between welcoming the disabled customers or having them pushed out because Mr X has taken the only parking spaces they can use ... well in that case, I reckon they'd probably prefer to retain the disabled people rather the antisocial Mr X.
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I cannot work out if Mr X is a troll or a "Pixie" king. He sees things differently to me at least.
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Im just waiting for Mr X to recommend disabled folk to be banned from public places altogether lest they dare come into his field of vision :-) - if it will oppose the majority, Mr X is there. Still, he is making me look almost mild mannered.
Just dont take it too seriously folks, its a bit too 'obvious'.
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Good. I almost gave up nudging the 'security' personnel at my local Tesco to do this. I hope they introduce better supervision at all their branches.
From the comments of a few here, it seems they're experts on disability & what type should qualify - probably the same mindset at work in those I see abusing the system.
The proportion (or %) of spaces is probably based on the national average for disabled people in the population or of those who would qualify for blue badge, i.e. about 8-10%.
I hope they go further & announce the registrations of cars parking in blue-badge bays without badges over the supermarket PA - might even make the supermarket run fun.
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Talking to my local Police Hate Crime Officer he made a thoughtful point about Disability (one of the recognised strands of diversity) - its the one group of minorities that the majority are only a hair breadth away from joining at any given time. Therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee (he didn't actually say that end bit - but you get my drift.)
Edited by Pugugly on 15/12/2008 at 17:12
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"send not to know for whom the bell trolls, It tolls for thee"
Nothing like a bit of Milton (no, not the disinfectant fluid) for raising the tone!.
Edited by rtj70 on 15/12/2008 at 18:35
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Oh, pink fluffy dice - Johnny Donney - my favourite poet - and guess what, I was reading a book on Milton this weekend and got confused - to quote Donne again "busy old fool"
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions...
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True. Ive often said that those who park in disabled spaces through laziness should have a baseball bat to the knees - give them a legit reason to park there and a better understanding of what lack of mobility is like.
Of course, parking attendants are somewhat more legal :-)
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Nowwheels, are you deliberately trying to twist things or is it just a simple misunderstanding of the way I have worded my post?.
I am not saying I would not use a supermarket that provides and polices disabled bays, I was referring to the rule that they will only offer ANYONE two hours parking before issuing tickets.
'Sainsbury in my town had started issuing automated PCN if you are minutes over by 2 hours limit. They actually display a notice saying vehicles will be clamped if you park there over 2 hours.'. Seems the post are a litlle in the wrong order.
With an average weekly shop of around £140 in the same store at the same time, surely I should not be encouraged to run down the aisles and get the hell out of the place as soon as possible ?
'having them pushed out because Mr X has taken the only parking spaces they can use ... well in that case, I reckon they'd probably prefer to retain the disabled people rather the antisocial Mr X.' Do show me were I have posted that I WOULD DISRESPECT the disabled bays and use them ' What a pity that some on here wish only to attack the poster and not the points raised in the post.
Edited by Mr X on 15/12/2008 at 18:51
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Nowwheels are you deliberately trying to twist things or is it just a simple misunderstanding of the way I have worded my post?.
I think the misunderstanding is on your part rather than Nowwheels Mr X.
If a supermarkets has a limit on time then you should follow it, you wouldn't pay to park and then come back some time later after the time was up. Harsh but its the way it works, they write the signs or a reason.
As for parking is disabled bays, I think the cars should be clamped if no badge is found and then released on evidence of the badge or a fine being imposed.
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Supermarket car parks are a whole different ball game to other types. They want your business then it's up to them to make you feel welcome. A well known burger chain are starting to feel the negative impact on their parking time limits. They are finding that the reps and others who used to schedule meetings at their places and whilst there, scoff large amounts of doughnuts coffee and burgers , have started giving them a miss for fear of falling foul of their 2 hour limit. I know because I have seen a management memo asking for other ideas.
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>>Supermarket car parks are a whole different ball game to other types. They want your business then it's up to them to make you feel welcome.
In my experience the only supermarket car parks where a (usually 2 hour) limit is applied and policed in this way are in locations where customers park to use other shops as well as the supermarket, resulting in the car park being so full as to prevent other potential customers shopping there.
It's never occurred to me to feel unwelcome but I do try not to be a curmudgeon ;-)
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Any supermarket that wishes to impose such rules on me when I am spending upwards of £50 or more will find my custom going else where.
Do you also apply this to the "policing" of family parking spaces?
Because I am sure the supermarkets would prefer the business of young families who spend alot more than those without kids. Believe me it's not just that there are more mouths to feed, there's clothes wich they always outgrow and if you have to do your shopping with the kids in tow you will do as much as possible in one shop!
Edit: Just seen your latest post and I too misinterpreted your previous post as being about disabled bays, not the two hour limit.
I do find that ridiculous myself, much better system at asda in Huyton, they are in the town centre, 1 hour free then charges after that, but the charges are reimbursed if you spend over a certain amount.
Edited by Mookfish on 15/12/2008 at 18:55
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'Do you also apply this to the "policing" of family parking spaces?' No. Nor to the spaces provided for humpback whales, aliens or any one else.
The first person fined in a supermarket near me that introduced this system of two hour fines, was a a woman who had taken her downs syndrome son with her. She explained that he had become a bit of a handful whilst shopping which slowed her down a bit and that she had taken advantage of the in store cafe to buy him his lunch. She hadn't used the disabled spaces as she didn't class him as disabled ( her choice ) but they pursued her for the money, even after her explanation.
Now just seen your post !
Edited by Mr X on 15/12/2008 at 19:01
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"She hadn't used the disabled spaces"
If she is a blue badge holder she could have used the disabled spaces. If not then she could not. I would be surprised if did nto win if she appealed the fine.
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Any supermarket that wishes to impose such rules on me when I am spending upwards of £50 or more will find my custom going else where.
Like the OP I live in Northampton.
The town has premiership rugby and a well-supported football team which bounces between the old third and fourth divisions. The grounds are perhaps half a mile apart as the crow flies and have ample (Council provided) pay and display parking. However large numbers of fans prefer to park on industrial estates, ring road verges, residential roads or anywhere else they can save the p&d charge, which is less than the match programme or a pint in the Saints bar.
Not really surprising then that the nearby Sainsbury's limits parking to two hours - ample time for any normal person to finish their shopping. I'd be very surprised if a tale of kids and a cafe lunch, supported by production of a respectably sized and appropriately timed receipt, did not result in the waiver of a PCN.
Were there no restrictions I'd consider leaving my car there all day, bromptoning the last 2 miles to the station and saving £6.50 a day for parking.
Edited by Pugugly on 15/12/2008 at 22:33
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Why not just have the restrictions for match days ?
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Personally knowing the Sainsburys in question, I would say that maybe 3 hours covers all the bases for people using the store - if you wanted to use the cafe and do a weekly shop, you would have to sprint around, so in a way, they are shooting themselves in the foot a little businesswise.
I do understand why they do it however as the sports fans do take advantage and park in the dumbest places. They are damned either way.
I think they should have a flat rate of 50p for those carparks to encourage people to use them. Then again, Northampton council is rather strapped for cash.
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Quite honestly MrX it was your third para of your original post that was offensive to me... yes there are some people who cheat the system, just as people do in other things... but the majority do need blue badges... my wife was perfectly healthy 4 years ago and now can't walk far... far enough to get round a supermarket if she takes her time, but no further...
I, for one, take offence at your first post but in the interests of harmony and good will at this time of year hope that you never have the need for a BB, though with an attitude like yours I came very close to the opposite sentiment...
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I wouldn't dream of using a disabled persons' space; however I do reserve the right to use the "mums and toddlers" spaces after 10 pm if they're available, on the perfectly reasonable (to me) grounds that any parent out with kids after that hour shouldn't be allowed to be in charge of them. ;-)
Note to parents; please note smiley before engaging "Righteous Indignation" mode!
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I've seen previous topics on HJ regarding parent and toddler parking, and how some people use them incorrectly as they consider the extra space around them as insurance against getting a door opened against their car.
Consider this, that extra space is there for a reason, to allow the doors to open further, but is also allows a fully laiden trolley being piloted by a mother between vehicles, who last thoughts is your precious car !! Which is worse door being opened against your car or a trolley being pushed into it ?
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b308, before you get too worked up, may I suggest that you view the thread using the "nested" rather than "flat" option. You will see that MrX's post was related to the two hour limit and, IMO, not directed at all to disabled parking.
BIG
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b308 before you get too worked up may I suggest that you view the thread using the "nested" rather than "flat" option.
I'm sorry but that was not clear from the post at 1247 and if that was the way it was intended then it could have been worded considerably differently, as it stands I still regard it as a dig at BB holders and I have seen nothing in his subsequent posts to change my opinion.
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BiG, if you read 'nested' or 'flat' I think you will understand why b308 and several others, me included, have "misunderstood" the intentions of Mr X:
Mr X @ 12.47
Hamsafar @ 13.21
Mr X @ 13.24
Back to the OP - it is a good thing that there is some policing going on. We have nearly had parking rage at our local supermarket as the spaces do not relate to the number needed, at the best of times. More so when those allergic to rain need parking.
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Why not just have the restrictions for match days ?
Because its easier for all concerned if the rules are simple and known in advance.
There is a reasonable debate around whether a family shop + feed kids @ cafe takes 2 hours or three but is it a matchday when the footie team play Yeovil and the rugger guys are away or only when Cobblers play MK Dons and Saints Leicester?
Actually on the latter combination the sane would abandon NH and drive to Towcester. MK or Wellingborough, but you get my drift.
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I live on the edge of the CPZ for Wembley. It is match day only.
There are dot matrix signs as you approach the zone which tell you when the next event day is. At the Zone boundary signs there panels which flip between blank and "Event Today" (manual) - so you know when the rules apply.
Restrictions run 10am - midnight (was 8am - M'night but Brent council did a consultation 12 months after the Stadium re-opened and now start later)
The zone works really well.
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I know of a supermarket that set up new premises with large car park and chipped in to the funding of a new stadium for a rugby club which is right along side. They share the same entrance. However, once everything was up and running, they bought in the outside parking controllers to stop fans using the car park on match days. To their embarrassment, the local council found they hadn't put in place the right protection to stop this happening. result, nice new stadium but no where to park.
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Being the parent and carer of a chronically sick and disabled teenager who at this moment is again fighting for his life in hospital I really get sick of abuse of the spaces but hope that common sence will prevaial in future to allow carers of the severely disabled to legitimately use the badges.
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Our local Tesco (8< snip to name and shame you know the rules - webmaster) does nothing to discourage non-badge holders from using the disabled spaces - in fact, they allow their own staff to park in them! But being in Scotland, we can't use the "we'll clamp you" threat - the one time I think Scotland should allow clamping.
I think it's really weird how many disabled people use the store at 6am on a Sunday morning and are disabled, but can drive taxis, police cars, builders vans, pick-up trucks.
But revenge is sweet when you collect some abandoned trolleys and surround their vehicle with them..........................
Edited by Webmaster on 16/12/2008 at 09:09
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I saw some TV show once where they 'ambushed' people parking in disabled bays, and offered to push them through to their destination in a wheelchair.
Hilarious!
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Remind me, guys, who were the football players caught parking in disabled bays? One was a player out for a meal with his family - he wanted to be able to see his Bentley. The other was parked in a disabled bay near House of Fraser in Manchester. This thread reminded me, but it's bugging me that I can't recall who they were.
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Have you tried google instead of one of us having to do the search for you? Or try asking the Manchester United Press Office?
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It was John Terry, captain of both England and the team from Walham Green Dog Track. What a guy.
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One local football club chairman parked his Bentley in the disabled bay near a local restaurant last week.
The fact that his number plate is AJAX - WP was a bit of a giveaway...
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The tv text thing this morning was saying that the £2 charge limit for blue badges was to be removed and the cost was expected to rise to about £20 to cover admin costs.
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Just to put a different slant on this.....
I spent 12 years as a manager in a few of our large food retailers. Disabled and P&C car parking brought nothing but headache for us. The reason being there was no "uniform" approach to how to classify disabled - was it the badge or was it the person?
Many people had the badges, some of them were forgery, others belonged to relatives who were not with the car at the time. However a badge was being displayed so who were we (or more realistically, the 16 year old trolley boy) to argue with the validity of it?
Then we would have people who were most obvious disabled but did not have badges as they were out in a car different to the usual and the badge was in the other car.
Then what do you classify as a p&c? These rapidly changed to parent & toddlers but were abused all the time.
For both types of spaces, I cannot remember a single time that when either myself or a member of staff queried with a driver of their right to use a space that we didn't get a mouthful back from them.
The simple fact is that anyone who feels they have the right to abuse these spaces is not going to be reasonable.
I fully understand why it doesn't happen, but the best scenario would be for all spaces to be extra width and then have no separate allocated spaces.
And whilst I do not agree with the degree of Mr X's attitude, I have personally witnessed so many instances where shoppers from both criteria feeling it is their god-given right to get these spaces at the front door. Sometimes I feel that if the spaces weren't at the front door, we would then get a true reflection as to how many would park in the spaces due to the need for the extra space for access, and how many are doing it to be lazy. These are the same people who them proceed to spend 2 to 3 hours walking round both my store and the adjacent shopping mall.
If there is a P&C parking spaces at the furthest end of the car park but with a pavement all the way to the front door then what is the issue?
Personally speaking, I always park at the furthest deserted point from the store to try to minimise dings to my bodywork.
Going back to the OP, its great that Tesco have got this policy and are monitoring it, even more interesting to see whether it is an employee of the Car Park firm or the shop itself. If it is the shop itself, I can guarantee that come the first week in January, when all departments have to half the number of hours they are able to use, then it will be the first post that will be sacrificed and you will soon see him serving you behind the deli!
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Nicely put BobbyG.
'If there is a P&C parking spaces at the furthest end of the car park but with a pavement all the way to the front door then what is the issue?'
Great point. It is as if those with children are saying they can't walk to far because they have kids with them. I know they need the space to open doors wide and load and unload from car seats but that doesn't mean those space must be 3 yards from the entrance. I drove around a supermarket car park a few days ago and left with out finding an empty space except for 6 empty disabled bays and 5 empty P.C spaces ( yes I counted ). Lets hope those spaces made up for what I was about to spend .
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One of our local stores has P&C spaces well away from the main entrance - lots of 'free for all' spaces are much nearer.
The P&C spaces tend to used by drivers of expensive motors. Bentleys, Jags etc are not an uncommon sight and a couple of weeks ago my wife had a run in with an elderly woman who was using such a space for her new Maserati. Even though the space is double width she still managed to park it so my wife couldn't open the rear passenger door fully - hence the run in.
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Out of interest, does any one know at what age the ' child ' is not regarded as a ' child " re use of parent and child parking bays ?
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Mr X: Yes, let's put parent and child places at the far end of the car parks, so you have more chance of running over an excitable toddler who dashes away from his parent, who is trying to get a baby into a pram/pushchair also. Small children don't always stick to pavements and do unpredictable things, and a supermarket car park is one place where the supervising adult is highly likely to be juggling several things at once.
Do you really want small children walking across an entire car park just so you don't have to waddle so far? How thoroughly thoughtless and selfish. Would you hold a door open for a parent with children? Would you give up a seat on a bus to a person carrying a baby or toddler? If yes, then the same applies to car parks and it shouldn't be too much trouble for you to let them park a bit nearer the door than you. Make their lives a bit easier and make it a bit safer for everyone involved. If no, then what a selfish attitude that is.
Simple human courtesy and manners.
Good job most people aren't so self-centred in attitude.
Wouldn't it be better, if you see empty disabled and P&C places, to think: "Good. When the next disabled person or parent arrives, there's a place waiting for them. How civilised." Or do you just fume at the affront to your personal rights and take another 10 minutes off your lifespan by sending your blood pressure sky high. How daft.
Edited by Alanovich on 17/12/2008 at 09:58
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"so you have more chance of running over an excitable toddler who dashes away from his parent"
People shouldn't be driving around a supermarket car park in a manner that they could knock down and harm a toddler anyway.
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BBD, our local shopping centres are a nightmare, especially with my pet-hate - mummy-types in over-large SUVs with minimal visibility.
They can't even see me, at 6 foot tall, pushing a loaded trolley... let alone some 3ft high kiddy...
And at this time of year, with everybody dashing about to buy chrimbo pressies, and experiencing peace-on-earth-and-goodwill-to-all-men... NOT! ... the carparks are an even bigger nightmare than normal.
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People shouldn't be driving around a supermarket car park in a manner that they could knock down and harm a toddler anyway.
Agreed, I think supermarket car parks should have serious sized speed bumps, safer for all and a few Saxo's with drain pipe exhausts removed.
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Mr X, the biggest problem with kids, especially toddlers, is trying to keep then reined-in when negotiating carparks, especaially when you have a trolley to push as well, and especially given the way some morons drive about in carparks.
Now my nippers are bigger, I park a long way off, but when they were smaller, the parent-and-tot bays were a godsend.
However, some folk seem to think that a spotty adolescent qualifies as a 'tot' these days ...
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I'm one of those who parks miles away at the back and straddles two bays - not because I care about getting a few more dings on my 7-year old car but because my over excited kids just wallop the doors open. It adds about 25 seconds to my shopping trip which is a small price to pay for not needing a blue badge if you ask me.
The bays at my local mall are ridiculous. If you park right between the lines, you get about 25 cm either side - an impossible target for Polish drivers, most of whom would struggle to park in an aircraft hangar. Considering the car park is never more than half full, I can't understand why they don't repaint them a realistic width.
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The width issue might well be down to the local council. When granting planning permission they might request say 200 spaces in order to approve the application. Now if the area can only accommodate 170, then the slimming down process comes in to play.
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