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Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Just when I thought it could not get any worse. Just dropped my sister off

First off all just when i left my house the car was being lumpy in 3rd, I suspected it had ran out fuel (was also on the way to the fuel station) but it when I changed to 4th it was ran fine. Thought nothing of it, but maybe a fuel pump problem see how it goes.

A couple of times during the last month when moving of lights the car has been slow to move off with a bit of over revving, I did think then I hope its not the clutch but it seemed fine so again thouht nothing of it.

Anyway done 20 miles in it today and the over reving slowness thing had become more frequent, suspect it is no longer my dodgy driving. Got petrol (£8 worth thank goodness
I was just about to pull in and heared what sounded like an explosion, it turned out it was the spare wheel tray, put it back up let the clutch cool down and managed to drive it home fine with but with the clutch constantly slipping.

I can get this fixed for £150, but I am drawing the line now, I am going to rob swap the ICV, MAF and other sensors which are working fine put them on my dads (which is not running right), then sell my car on ebay.

I have already spent £200 repairing as they were safety things:-
Tow bar removed general check over and oil change - £50
New door latch, reverse switch and cv boot £80
Two new Pirerri tyres at £39 each, £78
New air filter - did this myself £5
New brake fluid cap - did myself £7.00

I am now kicking and screaming at myslef for letting my dad test drive the car (he knows nothing about mechanics) I didn't have insurance so could not test drive it myself. I also never listen to my own advice which is why I have a reputation for buying sheds. My heart just says car, I have money, me buy.

As we have a donor car it seems another incentive to swap spares rather than keep this car on the road, its a shame because the engine is in good condition.

I am tempted to find a larger car for my dad (better value for money) then me have his Fiesta, but then I know there are issues with that, so its probably no point.

I have a feeling my next car will be a Korean one :(, but it has not put me off Ford, I cannot blame Ford for buying bangers.

Sorry for long post, I need to let of steam.

Edited by Webmaster on 11/12/2008 at 00:36

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Hector Brocklebank
I offer my condolences, Rattle. I think that your fiesta falls into the 'more bother than it's worth' category, reinforcing my view that old, small cars are best left alone.

I think that if you really want cheap motoring, buy a new city car (panda, c1 et al) for around £5k-£6k. These cars are holding their value extremely well these days, aided by the current economic climate, and could loose you as little as £500 per year over a 3-5 year ownership period. Obviously there is the initial outlay to consider but there are numerous advantages;

1. Full 3 year warranty, insuring you against any big bills.
2. Citroen C1 - £35 tax, group 1 ins, 60 mpg.
3. Low servicing costs, cheap parts and tyres.
4. The proposition of owning a fresh-out-the-box, brand new car that you can take care of.
5. Infinitely better reliability than your fiesta!

I think that by the time you add up the costs of running a banger, you won't be far off the overall cost of running a new city car. Alternatively, find yourself an obsolete Korean saloon that has been lovingly cared for by an elderly owner (low mileage, FSH, always garaged) if you'd like another go at running a sub £1k car. There is no reason why this shouldn't work, just steer clear of superminis and go for a bigger, sturdier car.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
I am not sure how easy it will be to get credit, I am having a big argument with my bank atm, who have screwed up, but once its sorted I might be ok. I have thought hard about a newer car like a Panda but it is a lot of liability, what if I crash it? At least old bangers you can throw away.

The parts my dad needs are worth about £200 new, and they both work fine on my car MAF and ICV, so I can swap them, so even if I don't make money on that it is something. I will sel at least one of the new wheels, maybe for £20? some recovery. I can get money back of tax, so even if I get rid of it for £200, the cost of the car has been £100 per month or £25 a week which is a lot, but far cheaper than a hire car.

I have also learnt a lot about mechanics in the short term I have owned it, so not a complete waste. Really though it does have to be a small car not just for insurance reasons but also for parking, my job takes me to peoples houses and it can be hard to park.

Bangers are not for me, I like the logic but I can't do much repair work myself, and I am not one of these people who waits for all the suspension, brake, tyres etc to be done at MOT, if its dangerious it needs doing now. So in the end I think it will all work out ok.

I am entirely to blame for all of this. I am a new driver so I am sure that would have gone some way to burning out the clutch, I have been a bit heavy on it twice, and I ride it at lights (the way I was taught)

I am sure it is worth something for a mechanic, rust free in terms of an MOT, already got 5.5 months ticket, two brand new tyres, two newish tyres, good engine, just needs a new clutch, I know if I kept it it would not stop there though, there is that buzzing from the fuel pump area at times which might be a problem.

I have very good credit history, but I don't want a loan any more than £60 a month really. My sister has just offered to give me £100 towards the clutch because she gets lifts in it so I guess that is something to think about.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Garethj
Good luck with what you decide - if you run an old car you should be prepared to repair it, but it's not necessarily true that a new car will be more reliable. Our last 3 cars were cheap, had all done over 100,000 miles and have never failed to get us anywhere over the last 7 years.

Perhaps the most useful thing is to buy very very carefully, that goes for whether it's an old car or a new one! As you know, you'll pay for what you choose.

Gareth
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
And that would be my worst nightmare, buying a £3000 to then find the cambelt snaps. I have no such worries on this car, and apparantly my sister is giving me £100 as a christmas present, which would take the shock out of the new clutch. I have spent time and money on this car so what ever I decide I might try and line up a replacement first.

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
my sister is giving me £100 as a christmas present which would take the shock out
of the new clutch. I have spent time and money on this car so what ever I decide
I might try and line up a replacement first.


Don't, just don't. Do not do this. You can buy another car for a few hundred which will be far better than what you have, which is broken and worthless. You will do yourself much better to change.

As I've no cooking on the go at the moment, I will give you a brief thought from Autotrader.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
Use her £100 towards a car with a full MOT and some tax, from a private seller, for about £500.

Good tyres.
In daily use.
Doesn't burn oil.
Isn't all wet inside.
Doesn't smell of petrol.
Cambelt in date/mileage.
Everything works properly.
Engine never been taken to bits to be fixed. This is important, ask for a list of recently-replaced parts, if one is forthcoming, run away.
Oil is cleanish with no scum inside the filler cap (which hasn't been recently cleaned).
Mileage absolutely irrelevant.

If you can get someone to take away your old car for nothing, or get it to a scrap yard for £20, do so.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
it is worth quite a bit for parts just for my dad alone Fortherington, cheap cars are easy to sell especialy Fiestas, I got £80 for my old one and the engine had siezed!

My current car:-

Good tyres. - All virtualy new
In daily use. - This was mistake 1
Doesn't burn oil. - No oil burning at all, no smoke.
Isn't all wet inside. - Completly dry
Doesn't smell of petrol. - Just clutch burning smell!
Cambelt in date/mileage. - Chain
Everything works properly. - More or less at my expense!
Engine never been taken to bits to be fixed. This is important, ask for a list of recently-replaced parts, if one is forthcoming, run away. - Wasn't much history so I asked for this.
Oil is cleanish with no scum inside the filler cap (which hasn't been recently cleaned). - There was a bit of mayo but every Fiesta I have seen had this.
Mileage absolutely irrelevant. - Mine has 67k and is falling to bits! So I would agree!.

I am in no real rush to get rid of it, so the part swapping will be the first phase, then will sell it on ebay. If I get nothing for it I will strip it down to the bare shell and engine, then weigh it in.

If this was the first thing to go wrong I would get the clutch done like that, but this will be the third visit tot he garage and some of the jobs I have done myself, so I know the day I get the clutch down, the next day it will be fuel pump.

Thankfully my car only aids work and is not essential, the idea fo really having a car is to get very confident at driving before applying for a computer job which requires a car for work.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
If you have the luxury of time to store the thing and bits it, well you know it makes sense. I wouldn't try and fix it, though.

Look for something like this:

tinyurl.com/6s2grw

It could be OK, but it's overpriced, & ? the tyres. Find something similar & change.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Thanks will check it out :).

I have my grandmas garage which doubles up as storage for when our bangers are SORN and we are deciding what to do, the garage is damp though and does rust cars, so it can only be there a couple of weeks.

I am hoping the car will be drivable for 2 miles, its only one set of lights, I just need to be aware its slow.

Edit seen the link, my dad had one of them was an ok car, but towards the end it had got like my car now, a new bill every week.

Edited by Rattle on 10/12/2008 at 21:53

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Avant
I think you've been unlucky, Rattle, and one festering Fiesta doesn't knock the whole bangernomics argument on the head.

If you have a friend with some mechanical knowledge, take him/her with you when viewing a cheap car. Go on condition, not make; at this age the remaining life of the car will depend much more on how considerately it's been used by its previous owners much more than on mileage or whether it was a well-designed car in the first place. That said, availability of parts ia also a factor, so don't go for some faded rarity.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
This is my third Fiesta, first one was actualyl very cheap to run but the engine was terminaly warn, we got 4000 miles out of it and all it needed was an oil change, new plugs, some brake work for the MOT, spent less than £150 on repairs, car would not start two months after MOT, knowing the engine was knackered I just scrapped it for £80.

Out of all my friends I consider to have the most mechanical knowledge that is the problem, the BIG problem is I do sometimes see problems but let my heart rule my head, and think oh it won't be a problem in my ownership, which really means it will cost me money next week.

My dads Fiesta has been ok, it does have some issues now but nothing that makes it unroadoworthy and it seems to cope with 12k a year easily. His is the same age as mine but on two plates near (VIN both 96). I think the fact the clutch has gone soon after replacing that door latch is what is making me a bit sick now. Normaly I would just think oh new clutch, they go on old cars so what, but I am worried if I don't cut my losses now I will regret it. I do have some emotional attachment to it though, as its the first car I have bought since passing.

I am now in no rush so will jsut take my time in getting a replacement, I am self employed so a loan will be tricky, so a good banger no mroe than 10 years old is the best way to go here.

I feel biter as I had lost £100 on that Corsa too some people will remember, when posting what happened in the test drive people rightly told me to avoid which I did, and still glad I did.

Edited by Rattle on 10/12/2008 at 22:27

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - NowWheels
Rattle, cheer up!

You are learning a lot of valuable lessons in how to keep a car on the road cheaply, and you are learning from your mistakes. Your mistakes have not been expensive ones, and will stand you in good stead later on.

If you feel fed up with this, just do a few quick sums on where you'd be if you had gotten easy credit a few years ago and bought a new Fiesta or similar on some sort of hire purchase: thousands of pounds worse off than you are now.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - captain chaos
I suggest looking in the local classifieds for an old Honda that's been owned by an old boy with service history....they can be found and they've been looked after. Might not be trendy but then neither is crawling under a car on a regular basis


Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Insurance is massively expensive on older japaneese cars though, I don't know why, but they are coming it at over £100 a month, paying £66 now. Kia Rios are slightly cheaper but they are supposed to be horrible to drive, and there has been no crash tests. New Hyundai accents are ok, but the older ones are not safe according to HJ CBC. Skoda Fabias are too expensive.

What I want is just not in my price range and that is why I have ended up with a dud. I have seen a lot of cheap Astra MK3s which tend all be rust free but I am sure I can be opening another can of worms here.

A Daweoo Lanos might do the trick, as it is mainly GM parts, they are reasonably safe and probably well looked after.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - captain chaos
It's a trade-off, Rattle...you've got to weigh the extra insurance cost against the expense and frustration of having to replace bits. Small cars are fine when they are new but don't stand the test of time as well as more expensive cars. I had a few old Mk. 1 and Mk.2 Escorts on the basis that they were cheap on parts. Not so cheap when you're replacing parts every five minutes though :-(
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Good point, I could live with something Focus size, but anything bigger will cause parking issues for me.

So it is a sub £800 under 10 years old rust free uncool car that is fairly safe, not powerfull, comfortablish, not too bothered about MPG. I would have to free up the money I have tied in my Fiesta first then have a good look round, I won't rush into it this time.

I wish I knew somebody selling a car then it would make this dilema a lot easier, pretty sure I will end the life of my Fiesta though.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - barneybear
My brother-in-law is selling his Fiat Punto 1.2 due to being made redundant and needs all the cash he can. Well looked after (he's no mechanic so all garage maintained) and it has proved very reliable (unlike his employer!).
I would agree with several other posts - very small cars tend not to fair too well over the years unlike bigger models that appear to cope better with the all the shake-rattle and roll of 1000's of miles on our roads.
I've had Fiesta, Escort and Xsara cars - current is Megan Estate. All (except Megan which is brand new) were about equal in terms of cost of parts compared to mileages and age and initial capital layout.
I travel all over the country with work (so my Megan is clocking up the miles), but I could esaily bring the Punto to wherever you are and prove its relaibaility if you were interested.

This is my first post, so no idea if such an offer is "ethical", or indeed how to make direct contact.

Good luck with whatever you buy next, but I would listen hard to what most folk are saying - replace now without sinking more into it and learn from the process.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FP
Sorry to hear of your woes, Rattle. You seem to feel you were partly to blame for the failure of the clutch, but it was clearly on the way out anyway.

However, this surprises me: "I am a new driver so I am sure that would have gone some way to burning out the clutch, I have been a bit heavy on it twice, and I ride it at lights (the way I was taught)."

Are drivers really taught to ride the clutch at lights? I thought the best practice was to put the handbrake on, the gear stick in neutral and release the clutch. Anything else is pure laziness, surely, and guaranteed to wear the clutch components.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Yep but it is something I will change as soon as I get a new car or if a flip and get this clutch fixed ( my sister said she will give me £100 towards the new clutch) as a Christmas present.

It is because you can get away quicker, e.g not have to start putting into gear when the lights change. The way we are taught is to put clutch down, into first gear, hand brake on. When I get a replacement I shall be doing the neutral handbrake on method!

Also thinking about it the couple of times when i felt was heavy I was heavy on the gass trying to get the damn thing to move, I now realise it was because the clutch had been slipping all along.

I think I knew yesterday the clutch was slipping but I thought I would get away with it for a few more months, but today at the junction just revs, more revs, must have ended up putting 4000rpm on it at one point just to try and get the thing to move, and that is when the clutch smell happened, then just instantly after that I heared the bang, which was the spare wheel tray but for a second I thought the engine was blowing up, so turned the ignition of instantly.

It all happened so quickly, why is the car not moving? whats that smell? bang.It actually drove faily well on the way back home, although it was clearly slipping.

Edited by Rattle on 10/12/2008 at 23:20

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - captain chaos
I'm teaching my stepson to drive and he also has lessons with an instructor. He rides the clutch at the lights and apparently it's so you are ready to move off when the lights change. A few lessons in mechanical sympathy may be in order here. I hasten to add it's not my clutch he's burning out! ;-)
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
However I asked my driving instructor about this, dosn't it burn out the clutch a while back. He said his is on 40k and is still the original clutch, so yes it does shortern the life, but not that quickly it seems. Driving lessons teach no mechanical sympathy at all.

On a second note, does anybody know what caused my first sympton when the car was being really lumpy in 3rd? that could not be the clutch could it? Unless the ECU got confused with the constant gear changing as I was having trouble engaging.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - NowWheels
I'm teaching my stepson to drive and he also has lessons with an instructor. He
rides the clutch at the lights and apparently it's so you are ready to move
off when the lights change. A few lessons in mechanical sympathy may be in order
here.


For now, he should go with what the instructor says. You're right on the mechanical sympathy issues, but the instructor knows what style of driving is required to get through the test.

Once he's got his full licence, he can start being kind to cars again.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Yep, in a test if he leaves in neutral that is not a minor or fail its perfectly fine. The problem is in a test its all too easy with all the preasure to miss the lights changing till the last minute, then you have to put into gear, and move off, that delays you about 2-3 seconds and that becomes a minor or serious if the lights change as you set off, but 2-3 minors in the same box can become a fail. So inexperienced drivers in a test should always ride the clutch at lights.

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - captain chaos
For now he should go with what the instructor says. You're right on the mechanical
sympathy issues but the instructor knows what style of driving is required to get through
the test.


Quite agree, NW. Procedures have changed somewhat since I took my test, that's why he has additional lessons with an instructor. There's enough for a learner driver to contend with in today's traffic conditions without bothering about wearing his clutch out
cc
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Blue {P}
Now that you've got the car in a relatively working order (from what you're saying the only thing wrong with it is the clutch and a buzz from the pump that may or may not be a problem) there are only two options that I can see:-

1) Fix the clutch (after all, the cost to you must be very limited thanks to your sister's generous donation)

2) Buy a new car (and by that I mean new or nearly new)

If you go out and buy another bangernomics car you will end up spending £500 on a car and then have no guarantees about it's condition. You also strike me as someone who can't live with strange noises or broken bits, old cars come with these so you will most likely end up spending more money to put the new banger into top notch condition.

I'm afraid with bangernomics the general rule that I thought was to only write the car off when a bill comes to more than the car is worth. By your description this Fiesta may not be perfect (although it's had a lot of work so should be getting close) but it is certainly worth more than the cost of a clutch change. Let your dad replace his parts with bits from a scrappy!

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
That is the other way of thinking.

The car is nice to drive and I have just put two decent tyres on it, the other two tyres are in very good condition. My mechanic says the brakes are fine, but they still make a noise, they are sharp though and certainly never had problems stopping quickly, there is a little clunk from the back which may have been the spare wheel tray which fell of tonight. I was planning on getting a second opinion on the brakes after Christmas just to make certain. The engine is good, no smoke (apart from in this weather), it is not using coolant, does not use oil, does not use brake fluid.

I would want the brake pipes done though if I am spending more money on it. Also before the clutch burnt out it was running lumpy in third? could this to do with the clutch or could I suddenly find myself paying for a new clutch only to still be runny lumpy and more big bills?

I am going to ask my mechanics opinion, he has told us to throw cars away in the past even when we have offered him the work, I am just feeling emberassed as I am at the moment his number one customer.

I will ask him how much a clutch will be, but if I remeber rightly the plate is about £70, he will charge full rate for thid job no doubtso that is £90 labour for three hours. On top of this brake pipes will be a good £60-£70 and there may or not be a potential issue with the suspension.

I could buy a new car and find it burns 1 litre of oil a day, and the cambelt could snap. I think it really does depend how much a new clutch will cost. It has always started first time in these very good mornings so I am confident the engine itself is reliable.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Lud
Rattle: a car whose clutch isn't worth replacing isn't worth having. A car that's worth having is worth a new clutch. That anyway is my instinct. If it's all right in all the other ways - and I must say you are quite good at making it sound well dodgy - then get the clutch done by a decent independent if you have found one yet. It shouldn't cost more than about £150 including proper parts. Off the top of my head really, but don't let anyone soak you ral money for it.

A clutch is a consumable part, designed to wear out. Bad driving will get through one very quickly, good driving will make it last for ages.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Thanks Lud, I am sort of swaying more to looking into having this done now, because as Blue pointed out if I bought a new car I will find things wrong with it. I had budgeted for new pipes and about £100 for possible suspension issues in the new year but the clutch has just thrown me a little as I did not expect it so soon.

I used to drive my old Fiesta a lot and I was even worse with that, had no clutch issues at all so it is fair to say the clutch was on its way out from day one and my dad did not spot it (I can't blame him, not many people would spot a slipping clutch in its easy days).

The buzzing noise could be the fuel pump (i.e lumpyness) but am I right in thinking a fuel pump for this engine is pennies and an easy job?
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - the swiss tony
3 hours to fit a fiesta clutch???? naw..
I had a mark one fiesta, and had a clutch put in over a lunch hour... AND had time to drive to the chippy, buy 2 portions, drive back and eat said chips along with the techy who did the clutch...
id say he did it in 15mins start to finish!
I myself have done an escort 3 clutch in an hour and a half, at home on axle stands.

Rattle.... I think you expect to much from a banger... the whole poing of running a banger is not spending money you dont NEED to spend on them.... keep them legal, but learn to live with small faults and buy budget! £39 each for 2 tyres? Im sure you could have got them cheaper than that!
I have nearly always run bangers, the only time I didnt, cost me big time!
I paid £4k on the car, only for the cam belt pulley to break taking a set of valves with it (belt changed 1500 miles before) followed 9 months later by the auto box exploding - at the point I cut my losses and sold the car as it was... I lost a lot of money there....

My last 3 cars have cost me; £250, I ran for a year and sold for £250 (was too expensive on petrol........next one £200 and scrapped due to rot after 9 months, and the current one £500....
New cars? no thanks...
1/ lose to much in depreciation
2/ have to pay to have serviced.. I can do myself....
3/ too much to go wrong.... I believe in KISS.... Keep It Simple, Stupid... all the old cars I had, with points, carbs etc ONLY once did I get towed home - crankshaft broke on an old viva!
the amount of times Ive been towed home due to ECU failure, or some other engine management fault? at least 4 times in the last 5 years.... give me points and a carb any day!
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Swiss sadly mine is the hydraulic kind and I think these are harder to replace then cable clutches found on older Fiestas? When I bought the car I expected to have to spend around £250 on it before the MOT, and another £200 at MOT, I knew it would cost me money, but there was a pay as you go element, e.g I could get none urgent jobs done after earning more money than I expected, but with a loan I would have to repay it each month regardless of how much I earn.

Do I agree with about new cars, finding a balance is the problem. The tyres I bought when I decided to tkeep the car long term, rather than paying £15 each for some remoulds plus fitting it seemed to make sense to buy two brand new good brand ones. I was nearly killed bya faulty tyre was a kid so this is not something I will shrink on. I was also busy at the time with jobs so hunting round for cheap used tyres would have cost me money.

I have been pricing up plates and I can get a kit for £30, how I do know if its a decent brand? Or does the brand really matter? I only do 3000 miles a year if that, and will only keep it another year anyway. I still have not decided to keep or sell, there is a lot of good things about this car as well as bad.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - oilrag
I would stick with bangers for a while Rattle. I`ve seen people really suffering with monthly car re-payments and not able to live a normal life as a result.
If you did the clutch on the current car - it should be `as new` and robust enough to deal with your inexperience on pulling out of junctions. How long is the MOT though and is it expected to get through on areas such as bodywork? Surely too, there`s nothing better than Ford for cheap parts and availability at scrap yards?
Whether you keep this, or get another banger, another couple of years will transform your driving and confidence, greatly reduce the risk of a prang and put you in a better position for something better.

Perhaps (with respect) the other thing is to try to stop examining your car too closely or worrying about it. `Looking for trouble` because you almost always find it on a car of this age.

If you haven`t already, why not get full breakdown cover for a year? - let them take the strain a bit (getting your money back) and giving the confidence to undertake some long distance trips.



Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - daveyjp
My first car was a banger - a Fiesta Mark 1. In 18 months it had new exhaust, engine mount, front brakes, couple of tyres, a clutch and I changed the thermostat.

Back then about £300 of repairs - same as I paid for the car.

I had no problems paying for the mechanical bits because even at 14 years old and almost 100,000 as it was very reliable, burnt no oil and did the job.

What killed the car was the floorpan going through - at this point I knew it was time to say goodbye, but I was reluctant as it ran so well.

If the bodywork is fine get the clutch fixed.



Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Andrew-T
>If the bodywork is fine get the clutch fixed.

The bodywork may not be fine - Rattle has already done the sill(s) ...
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
It sounds eminently scrapworthy, although I fully expect Rattle to waste hundreds of pounds more on it, including the £100 given by his lovely sibling, which money could be used to buy a decent old car to replace this _thing_.

Still, it'll keep the post rate up. I bet the next problem will be something expensive steering-related, or expensive and electrical. What do you guess? I bet there's something expensive and rust-related right now!
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Mapmaker
>>What do you guess?

The exhaust will start to blow. And a quick trip to Kwik Fit to have it done will sort it. (£110)

However they will identify a crucial need for four new shocks "spot the difference, or your money back and the old ones refitted". As it's a safety issue, Rattle will, quite rightly, immediately pay them £150 for the set. Having spent so much on the car, he might as well have his tracking done at the same time "just in case" because he "can't be too careful" (£65).

And a bargain £25 oil change into the mix too. It's only £350, total, and the car was so cheap he won't mind spending it.


That's if Rattle actually exists, of course. I'm sure I've seen his style before - bell boy?


Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - LondonBus
You can see why I'm flipping the Polo. It's not the first £100 you spend fixing stuff on an old car that's the problem financially. It's the successive series of problems (at a £100 a throw) which pop up after you spend the first £100.

Wouldn't it be sensible to work on the principle of having a maximum spend rate for a banger - (say £150 on repairs a year) and once you exceed the spend rate, ditch the banger?

Edited by LondonBus on 11/12/2008 at 13:01

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
I'm sure I've seen


The thought had occurred, but without any particular names.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - bathtub tom
It hadn't occurred to me, until you sowed the seed of doubt...........

Has Rattle ever criticised lorry drivers? ;>)
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Cliff Pope
Look at it this way:
You are not contemplating making a long term investment, it doesn't matter what the car is worth. If £150 buys you motoring for a year, it is cheap even if the car then collapses in a heap. (And if you then buy another similar, you will have a spare good clutch kit just in case) Everything you have previously spent on the car is irrelevant - the decision rests solely on the likely return from this £150, compared with the probably much larger amount you would have to spend on some other car.

And there is a chance you will be lucky. There is now much less to go wrong than on another unknown car, and, which is important, you have knowledge about the state of your car, which you don't about any other.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - bathtub tom
I don't think I'd trust a clutch kit for thirty quid.

I'd suggest it's time you got down and got dirty. Why are you thinking of changing the brake pipes. Get a stiff bristle brush and a pot of grease, get under the car, brush loose dirt off the brake pipes and smear them with grease.

With the money you're saving there and your sister's donation, you've paid for the new clutch.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Mapmaker
Rattle. Bad luck.

You may well be temperamentally unsuited to running an old car. Old cars rattle and squeak, they have tyres that are more than 2 years old... And they're fine. Absolutely fine.

Learn to love second hand tyres; learn to be grateful for the existence of twin brakeing circuits. Your brakes won't ever fail. And if they do, you've got two sets of brake pipes anyway.


The judder in third might just be a slipping clutch.

There's a SAAB on the classifieds on here for £95.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - DP
I agree with CP

I too would swallow the bill and change the clutch. You are going to have to spend significantly more to get another car, and who's to say that won't have an expensive failure in a few months?

£150 is a lot of money to find, but when you consider that many people spend upwards of three times that in a month to finance a car which is haemorrhaging value by the week, yours is still among the most financially shrewd way of motoring that exists today, even with the clutch change cost factored in.

After spending this money, the car could run for years without any further significant cost. You just don't know.

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Mapmaker
>>I too would swallow the bill and change the clutch.

As the Irishman said, "I wouln't start from here."

If I were OP, I'd have sold the car the moment I brought it home and suggested spending £200 on it; it's been nothing but trouble since. There's gratitude for you...
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - stunorthants26
Sorry to hear of your troubles. Buying cheap cars is a bit of an art form - sometimes you get a masterpiece, other times a bit of tat.

I had great success with 1980's jap cars ( non-rusty ones ). My best buy was a 1986 Mazda 323 1.3. Had two months MOT but went straight through. Cost me £200 off ebay, only had 70k on clock and full history. Never went wrong and was reasonable way to get about if a little old hat.

My rule with buying old cars is buy pre-electronics generation as expensive repairs are much rarer.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
Just poke about in Autotrader to see what's available for £500 quid or less, with MOTs and tax, even. tinyurl.com/626qof tinyurl.com/6pdobx tinyurl.com/5jvg26
There're plenty of cars about.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Mapmaker
Those guys at Cheltenham Trade Centre seem to have got the right idea to get punters in, FT, I've been meaning to post about them for a few days. All their cars - even the £500 ones - come with:

Full tank of petrol,
12 months warranty,
New Cambelt
6 months tax
12 months MOT

And red-hot cheap prices too.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Andrew-T
>Buying cheap cars is a bit of an art form - sometimes you get a masterpiece, other times a bit of tat.

But Stu - if you don't have a nose for art, you can't tell the masterpieces from the tat, and you should maybe take better advice? But I suppose we all have to make our own mistakes in order to learn from them.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Andrew-T
Sorry about your troubles, Rattle. Why didn't you tell us your Fiesta had a tow-hitch? That is probably why the clutch is going, and may be why the car was sold.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Alby Back
I can't bring myself to sell my "banger" It's a Feb 02 Mondeo diesel estate with nearly 160k on it and appears to be constructed from kryptonite. I've had it since it was a 35k mile 3 year old youngster and so far all I've had to do is put a bulb in a headlamp. Everthing else is original except tyres, filters and brakes. Unless it was all replaced before I got it of course.

It will of course now explode or something........
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Been to see my mechanic who said he will do it for £160 including a Ford clutch kit. This is actually a very good price considering the clutch will be OEM. However I asked him about the bodywork and he asked how much MOT it had, when I said 6 months he said there might be more big bills at MOT for welding so he cannot say either way. He said:-

Engine was good
Gear box was good
Underneath not the worst car he had seen but it is rusting.

If the bodywork was good then I think it is worth saving, mine should have been scrapped a long time ago and I am now stuck with too brand new tyres :(.

I told him I would stick it on ebay and see what happens.

I feel like I have lost a lot of money what ever I do with this rotten car.

He was surprised the clutch has failed so quickly and commented that I have never had any clutch trouble on the other cars I have driven, so he thinks there might be an internal leak which has put oil on the plate or it could well have been that tow bar.

I know if I do get the clutch fix I can't moan when more big bills come, if I get another car with trouble I will regret not having it fixed. I think my next car will be bought from a trader so I have some sort of come back.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Mapmaker
I think my next car will be bought from a trader so I have some sort of come back.


Not at £300 you won't. If you had bought it from a dealer, and complained about the door latch, or about the clutch after you've been riding it at traffic lights, you would quite rightly be laughed out of court.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Andrew-T
>Not at £300 you won't. If you had bought it from a dealer ...

I don't know of any reputable dealers who sell at £300, and if I found one I don't think I would risk going back there.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Alanovich
I think you should ebay the heap asap and look at that place Mapmaker has recommended. Bet you can get a really cheap train ticket to Cheltenham if you look hard enough. Drive home the same day if you can arrange the insurance.

This looks like the motor for you:

www.cheltenhamtradecentre.co.uk/19611/showroom.htm

Group 4 insurance low enough?
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
This looks like the motor for you:
www.cheltenhamtradecentre.co.uk/19611/showroom.htm



There are *lots* there. Do you mean the 1.7 Astra I gave as an example? Searching Autotrader or even e-bay gives lots more choices.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Alanovich
Oops, didn't realise the link wouldn't go to a specific car. I was talking about the 1.4 Pug 306 at 499 quid.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
I originaly itended to get a 306, but I am not convinced at that age they would be any more trouble free than my heap.

I've lived without a car for 26 years, so I am sure I can live without one for a few months until I sort this mess out, the only problem is I have only just got used to the luxery of having a car.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - NowWheels
I originaly itended to get a 306 but I am not convinced at that age
they would be any more trouble free than my heap.


Haven't you read the basic guidance on bangernomics that has been posted frequently in these threads?

Forget the make and model, just buy on condition and price.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Looks a wonderful place, but it too far, I would also not feel confident driving all that way yet. Some good cars there, but also if there was problems it is also too far making the warranty worthless.

Just had a look on Autotrader and people are 'asking' £600-£800 for MK4s my age (they are expensive in Manchester), so I am confident I might be able to get £250 for it.

My parents had a Lada once they owned for 6 months, they spent over £1000 reparing it!

If I don't get much on ebay I will then resort to taking parts off and trying to recover money that way, I am no real rush to get rid of it, but I do need to get as much for the heap as possible. Traders know these Fiestas sell so they will also buy one.

I have been offered another car for £100 in febaury its a MK3 Fiesta which burns a lot of oil, but I have known the car for two and a half years and its always got us to Wales and back camping the problem is it is a rusting CAT C so I would not feel safe in it.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
You're trolling. Good luck.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
eh?

Just telling it like it is #;(

Anyway I have a long walk to my next job (well 1.5 miles) so ebay add will have to wait for tomorrow now.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - 1066
I feel like I have lost a lot of money what ever I do with this rotten car. quote from rattle.

its not a lot of money at all. its the price of a few nights out.

you have no money to spend
you know nothing about mechanicals
but you insist on spending or say you are spending money on non essestial items.

take the bus, lt less agro for you
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Mapmaker
Here's a dealer in Manchester selling cheap and nasty cars that might suit you, Rattle. A 1.3 R-reg Escort for £400, insurance group 5. Probably been to the moon and back several times, but still...

A 1.0 Saxo, T-reg 1999 for £675, ins group 3.

2001 Group 6 Fiesta for £995.
You've spend nearly that much on your heap!

www.tccarsales.co.uk/GetDealer.do?did=27009&pageid...1


(And for the grown ups reading this thread an £800 M-reg XJS, and temptingly a Volvo V70 AWD 1998 R for £950).
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Big Bad Dave
"And for the grown ups reading this thread an £800 M-reg XJS"

XJ6 Mapmaker. Still a lot of car for the money. And the Volvo must be worth a punt.

I'd probably take the 3.9l V8 Landrover 7-Seater which would be one solution to my cylinders or seats dilemma. I imagine it drives like shopping trolly full of beer though.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
tinyurl.com/5r4sb4

Two Fords, and a Hyundai with a dodgy offside rear quarter.

I can't tell you where to buy a mobile bridge.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
Page 1 of above link.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - SpamCan61 {P}
www.cheltenhamtradecentre.co.uk/19611/showroom.htm

Cor, excellent site! A couple of V6 Omegas for under a grand with tax, ticket etc.,right up my street. I'll bookmark that site for when I break my lovely green Vectra :-))
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Avant
Blimey - 66 posts....If we all charged out the time we've spent on this we could all have a pretty decent Fiesta each!

Rattle - as I said before I think you've been unlucky. I'd suggest getting the clutch done and giving the Fiesta one more chance. Anything else threatening major expense - scrap it and get an old Toyota.

And NEVER buy another car that's been used for towing. You never know what it's been towing:
- it could be a caravan much too big for the car:
- the last owner could have had a fetish for vintage steamrollers;
- it could have deputised for an unreliable Land Rover (very possible, that) and taken the cows to market in a huge trailer.

Edited by Avant on 11/12/2008 at 21:21

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle

I am now in the process of seeing how much I can get for my Fiesta before I decide for sure what to do, if I can only get £150-£200 for this heap I have lost so much anyway I may as well get the clutch done, if I can at least recover what I have spent on it it would mean I would have about £700 in the pot to buy a new car

My mechanic was not entirely sure it would pass the MOT in May, and for this reason I don't want to get the clutch done unless I really really have to. I am going to have to be very careful not to replace my shed with another shed and so far I have only seen two cars under £1k which I can afford which look ok, one was a Daweoo Lanos, the other was a Corsa. There is also a Rover 25 on there, 2001 reg which has had a new cambelt, radiator, head gasket and service it has 114k which is a worrying amount of milleage for a K series.

The main thing is I am not in a rush to get rid of my current car and I will ask around in case I see something.

Edited by Rattle on 11/12/2008 at 21:32

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - FotheringtonThomas
Avant> If we all charged out the time we've spent on this

Yup.

Avant> I'd suggest getting the clutch done and giving the Fiesta one more chance.

I'd suggest scrapping it. It's had its sills done. That gives it about a month's MOTable status, and as the MOT's in 6 months time, after the Winter, it'll need more welding then.

Avant> And NEVER buy another car that's been used for towing.

Depends, a lot. The last two cars I've had were both fitted with towbars. Both fine, and the lowest mileage one of the two's done 161.5K.

My mechanic was not entirely sure it would pass the MOT in May


Well, at least _he's_ not completely witless.
so far I have only seen two cars under £1k which I can afford which look ok
one was a Daweoo Lanos the other was a Corsa.


Well, if you're not going to take any notice of postings, I'm al farid you've reached the end of the road as far as advice goes.

There is also a Rover 25 on there 2001 reg which has had a new cambelt radiator
head gasket and service it has


I should buy that one, then. Pish.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Well after 67 posts I think that is the case. A lot of my friends hae had good luck with cars that come to them, so if I can wait I might try that policy. With regard to sills its not always a problem, my friends cat C had new sills two years ago, he has had three MOTs since and never once has rust been a problem.

I am also following advice, I am going to look for something with few previous owners, not be fussy about make, something rust free and decent MOT.

I am also tempted by barges, people including my parents keep putting me off Mondeo size cars, but I can't ignore them now.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Andrew-T
>People keep putting me off Mondeo size cars, but I can't ignore them now.

Unless you need a barge-sized car, stick to something smaller. But if you buy something small, make sure it hasn't got (or had) a tow hitch. While your Fiesta is working, you can trawl the neighbourhood for something better - there must be more than two to look at ...
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Blue {P}
My mechanic was not entirely sure it would pass the MOT in May and for
this reason I don't want to get the clutch done unless I really really have
to.


Erm, take the obvious answer and MOT it now whilst getting the clutch done, then you get a guaranteed year out of it. There is no law to state that you must wait until test time to put it through. Even if it did need a spot of underbody welding at MOT time this wouldn't cost much (the fact that lots of older cars are welded rather than scrapped would suggest it ain't a big job!)

Mountain and molehill is starting to spring to mind, I spend plenty of money keeping my cars in tip top condition (had the rust all removed from my 8 year old Mondeo only 2 months ago!) but even I would draw the line at an old Fiesta, only get stuff done if it's causing a direct safety threat. I can't understand why you're talking about changing the brake pipes, you have a dual circuitset and should get to know that there is a problem looonnnggg before they actually go.

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Number_Cruncher
>>I can't understand why you're talking about changing the brake pipes, you have a dual circuitset and should get to know that there is a problem looonnnggg before they actually go.

This is bad thinking.

Yes, there are 2 brake circuits - this is designed to provide a larger margin of safety in the case where a seal fails in one system.

The pipes themselves tend to follow similar routings - either running together down the length of the car, or follow symmetric routings where pipes follow similar routes under inner wheelarches to flexi-hose mounting points. In these cases, both pipes are likely to be in a similar weak state. By doing nothing, the integrity of both circuits is jeopardized.

I fully agree that there are places to make economies when running an older car - brake pipes isn't one of them!
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Mapmaker
>>This is bad thinking.


Maybe, maybe not - obviously your statement is generally true and perfectly correct, but... Judging by most of Rattle's other posts, he's quite happy to pay for this poor old car - that should be allowed to die - to be restored to showroom condition. My guess is that his brake pipe repair is more about paranoia than need. It passed an MOT six months ago, remember, and his "mechanic" did some basic safety repairs 3/4 weeks ago and didn't suggest the pipes.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Number_Cruncher
Yes, I'm not saying whether or not Rattle should continue with his car or not. Without seeing it, it's difficult to say one way or ther the other.

I was replying solely to the technical point about dual circuit braking systems.

I wouldn't advise anyone to contine running a car which has brake pipes in poor condition, and I can't see how saying anything else is even close to safe advice.

There's a line in running a car cheaply which only fools cross.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
I am planning to take some under car pictures soon and I might post them, so I have a better idea of the true condition of the car. Part of me is saying I would loose more money if I sold it, then repair it and the other part is saying the bills keep on coming. I was testing the preasure on the brakes today and the pedal does feel very nice and firm. I know I have spent a lot on this car, but I have a new licence and I could get banned quite easy by getting six points should vosa decide to do a random check, for this reason I have had done:-

Two new tyres, one was bald (spare) the other one had was badly cracking and was ilegal.
New door latch (for my safety more than anything, and of course its an MOT failure)
New reverse switch - which didn't work
New CV boot (was an MOT advisory but my mechanic did it anyway as it cost virtualy nothing)
New registration plate - did this myself, the old one had badly cracked and was ilegal.
New brake fluid reservior cap - the old switch had gone, so there was no way of telling if I suddenly lost fluid.
Oil change
Tow bar removed.

So really apart from the oil change and tow bar removal it was all essential from a safety point of view. I reject the fact it is am trying to get into show room condition, I am leaving the reverse light and rear wiper not working and was going to get these fixed by myself if it passes the MOT in May.

A fresh MOT might be an idea, but they will still probably pass the brake pipes, but in 12 months time they will be in really poor condition. Other than that I am not sure what it would fail on, the boot plan is all very good no signs of any rust, so I can't see the rust been that bad underneath.

Just had to move the car back and it wasn't slipping much, its when there is no traffic, its when there is a lot of traffic and you have to put gass on it just slips and slips. Basically at low speeds it dosn't seem to be slipping at all, I suspect it may be worse if the car was warmed up though.

I am also worried that if I decided to get the work done, he could find other damage such as release bearings, flywheel etc

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Number_Cruncher
>>such as release bearings

Usual wisdom is to fit a 3 piece clutch kit, as the cost of dismantling is much more than the cost of the parts.

I have never fitted a clutch without also replacing the release bearing. It's simply false economy.

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - oilrag
"the brake pipes, but in 12 months time they will be in really poor condition."

Not if you brush them off and coat them with grease

Edited by oilrag on 12/12/2008 at 19:58

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Number_Cruncher
>>Not if you brush them off and coat them with grease

I had considered saying just that, but didn't want to steal your thunder!
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - oilrag
;)
Always worth a handful on the sump too... if it`s steel

That said..if it were mine,I would love to get under it with about 5 tubs of Castrol CL waterproof grease..
Might rule future welding out though due to fire risk

Edited by oilrag on 12/12/2008 at 20:09

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - oilrag
Ahhh... Mot .. possibly weld ...smother with grease..
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Got some long awaited pictures of the state of the chasis, I have no idea if this is bad or not.

Boot floor which I was told was 'bad'

i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/boot...g

The 'new' sills

i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/sill...g


And the rear brakes showing what appears to be a new brake pipe, but the pipe within the coil spring looks older

i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/whee...g

Links to images made to work

Edited by rtj70 on 12/12/2008 at 22:33

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - rtj70
Is it just me or is the tread for the final "wheel" image looking a little low?
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Probably just the angle, there was a good 4mm on there last time I checked.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Avant
Those pictures would be a great idea for your Christmas cards, Rattle. Just in time for the sill season...:)
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - bathtub tom
C'mon BB 'fess up.

Those pics show less corrosion than many three-year-olds.

;>)
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
That is what I thought, the spare wheel tray is so rusty is almost snapping in too, but an angle grinder will get rid of that, I checked before I bought the car it had no rust round the suspension mounts (within 30mm).

Also am I right in thinking there is two brake pipes going into each drum? If so it appears to have been replaced as when I bought the car the main pipes underneath the car looked brand new. It is the pipes inside the coils which look a bit old.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Blue {P}
There's a difference between looking old and actually needing replacement though, most bits below the sills look very old on my car but very few need replacing!

I would ask your mechanic if he would change them on his own family car, if he says he wouldn't bother then there's your answer about what to do.

The boot floor looked ok to me, mine is much the same in all honesty and will probably need looking at in a few years time (I'm confident enough in it to rely on it to support a gas tank), perhaps just cover it up in a thick layer of Waxoyl?

When you list the things that you have done you haven't really done all that much out of the ordinary but have more or less got the car working right, I'd definitely just do the clutch and take it on the chin, stripping the car and selling it will result in you ending up with someone elses junk that also needs fixing up. It's going to cost you personally about £60 once your sister's contribution is taken into account?

For what it's worth, I had a 1996 Fiesta back in 2001 and the bills were non-stop on that one too for niggly little things as I couldn't abide it when things didn't work, I would start getting used to it or life will become very miserable! Perhaps but £60 per month into a savings account to cover niggles, tax, tyres and oil? It works for me.

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Thanks my decision has been made. If I sold the car now realisticaly after costs I would be lucky to get £250 after I have reclaimed the tax, I bought the car for £350, spent £200 on making it properly road worthy to my standards even going to the trouble of replacing a cracked number plate, so if I sold it I would still loose at least £350 on it. I don't want to rush into buying a new car as that is where the problems begin, so I will get the clutch done then I can either sell it in a few months time for £350-£400 and get some more use out of it if something better comes along. I will start saving for a newer car in the meantime I will use my car when its essential and hopefully it might all be ok. I will tidyup some of the bodywork before the MOT, I should quite easily be able to get the car into good condition very cheaply with a bit of time and with 12 months MOT I might even be able to sell it for £500 as fools always fall for a long MOT it is a good way of masking faults.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Just been on a 3 mile drive in it with my dad, the clutch only slipped once but again with a bit of a friction smell, the rest of the time it drove ok but towards the end it was lumpy again in 3rd gear would a slipping clutch cause this?

I have also had to put a good 700ml of coolant in it, now when I bought the car he told me there was a leak and he had fixed it, but when I put the coolant in there was a bit of water spurting out the back but this could have been condensation, my mechanic has also done some basic tests which suggested the HG is ok but it does seem to be loosing coolant and I can't work out where, it might be nothing. The header tank is also a bit orangy but this may have just been rust from the leak, it certainly does not overheat so I am not worried about that.

As the car drives fairly ok and it still has 5.5 months MOT I am going to put an add in the three adds for £295 saying needs some attention and see what happens. If I don't get £295 for it I will then get an ECU test done and if that is ok sort the clutch out.

Fourtnately I have a bit of money at the moment so if I sell this and wait a month I will have around £700 to buy something.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Pugugly
Look for a Vauxhall Cavalier - its the modern Morris 1000. Well engineered excellent parts availability and easy to work on it yourself.

BTW

Change the header tank screw-top. It may be a leaky one.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
I've red a lot of good thing about that 8v Cavaleir apparantly you can even change the clutch without removing the gearbox? However insurance on a 2.0 car for me is stupid, I could buy a brand new Panda for the same price.

The header cap looks quite new but its hard to tell, I suspected it had been replaced. The MOT advisory did say on it "coolant leak" and the previous owner volunteered that information and told me had replaced the hose which connects to the thermostat.

As far as the large boxes go I can just about afford the insurance on a 1.6 Mondeo/Primera sort of thing but I am still worried about the size of them as I am useless at parkign as it is and I do need to get into tight spaces. With the advice of this site when looking on autotrader now I don't look for many make, just find the cars at sub £1k within 10 miles, then work out which look ok and which I can afford to insure. Out of the 300 cars on there, I should be able to narrow it down to 10.

The biggest lesson I have learnt from this is not to be so trusting, just because the seller seems genuine, the seller may have been genuine but genuine sellers can still be ignorant. Next time I view a car I shall have a multimeter in my hand! Handy for testing circuits if a bulb is out (e.g it might not be the bulb) and also handy for measuring altnerator output, battery health etc.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - LondonBus
Rattle,

I think you need to re-think your approach.

Personally, I want a 3 year old care with is pretty much faultless. I'll accept things gradually failing over the following 5-8 years before I get rid of it.

I have low running costs (servicing and renewal of certain items) but I pay for this through depreciation. If I buy my £4k Almera now, I'd expect to sell it in say 8 years time for £300.

If you're running a banger then you need to accept that the trade-off for the cheap price you pay for a vehicle is that many of the bits on the car won't work. and that you might have to scrap it at short notice.

Different horses for courses. For my other half and me, the cost of depreciation is justifiable because we want to try and avoid surprises and don't have the time/inclination to do repairs.

A mate of mine from college is a Car Nut and has a fascination for Ford Capris. He has two runners and bits from another 4. He has lower cost motoring than us, but spends lots of time fixing stuff.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Pugugly
but spends lots of time fixing stuff

Lot worse ways to pass time, especially if you choose to run a car that's over 20 years old (at least)
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Alby Back
A man with 6 Capris? That's just not fair.........
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - LondonBus
He's a single guy with great mechanical aptitude. Did an HNC and then a BEng in Mech Eng as a mature student. Far more practical than most of his colleagues.

Another friend of mine did a BEng in Automotive Engineering. Used to run a Mk 2 Granada (this was in the early 1990s) - which he maintained using mainly bits from scrapyards.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
My uncle did the same, he had two Rover 416s (1990 Honda Civic type) in identical colour and spec! One was a runner the other was a doner. I have considered getting another MK4 Fiesta as do drive so much nicer than any other sub £1k car I have driven other than the Ka which is too small for me.

I am just trying to be cheerful and not think I have lost a lot of money and be depressed, instead I think well I have learnt a lot from this car and I will make sure it does not happen again. The downside is I am now less trusting but then I needed to be!

Mods would you prefer to me keep thsi thread going rather than make a new one asking for any advice abotu a specific car I might see or advice on selling this one? Seems to make more sence rather than make new threads all the time. Hopefully it will be useful for others in my boat too.

Edit I do accept things in a banger won't work, but at the same time I am not one those people who can leave faults to an MOT, if its on the MOT it should be fixed before, things like a noisy heating, a radio not working, a window not working I don't really care less about, my car has none of those faults but you know what I mean.

Edited by Rattle on 14/12/2008 at 16:37

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - stunorthants26
To me, you seem something of a kindered spirit with your car, its just the kind of episode ive got myself into on several occasions!

Only advice I would give re older cars is dont spend a few hundred - spend £1k as the difference between this and a few hundred quid car can be huge if you buy right.

Forget age of car, even miles isnt too important. What you want is a car that someone has owned a long while, so spent money on it, maybe even main dealer serviced - this is how to buy a car worth little that has plenty of life left in it.
To get a bargin, buy something that is totally off the car buyers radar, thus it is cheap for what it is.
I bought a Skoda Favorit with 40k on a K-plate about 8 years ago and sold it to a mate - it is still going and that was a £600 car back then. It was owned by an old couple and had full Skoda history. Not only that, but they were dead simple cars so when thinsg did go wrong, it was rarely anything beyond economic repair.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
:) I think that is probably good advice, if I get something rust free in terms of the chassis if I do spend money on getting good tyres etc I will know the car should last. I've always liked chain engines but there isn't much choice so as longs as its hard a fairly new belt or its cheap enough not too worry its ok. I am considering 1.6 Mondoes/Primeras but the 1.8s are too just too dear to insure and I don't need anything fast, I rarely go on roads where the limit exceeds 30!.

I also want something safe so a Mondeo would be quite good, parking is an issue but I can always walk and find an easy spot.

My 3 door Fiesta is also a bit too small as I have to often buy computers it is quite hard to get stuff in, the boot is ok but its access to the back seats is pathetic.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - stunorthants26
Might be worth considering a Volvo 440/60 1.6 as insurance is low and they are relatively safe, plus there are some well cared for examples out there. I owned one and loved it to bits.
My other suggestions would be a mid 90's Toyota Corolla 1.3 and a Hyundai Lantra 1.6.

A well cared for Corolla could be the last car you will ever need to buy.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
One of the dodgy looking backstreets as a Volvo 440 1.7 Turbo so it will be too much to insure, it has climate control the lot, but 124k it is £400 but it dosn't really too well cared for.

Anyway I need to sell my car before I get carried away looking for a new one, if my car dosn't sell I am stuck.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - stunorthants26
Theres an H-plate 1.3 Corolla on autotrader, 92k, years MOT and 6 months tax - if it was rust free and the price came down £100 thats the sort of car id wanna rely on if buying older stuff. Its old enough to be simple too. Buying newer doesnt always mean more reliable.
Price needs some work at £495 but Im sure it could be done.
There are a couple of older Corollas id look into on Autotrader just at a casual glance.

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - stunorthants26
Re camblt costs - rarely is it the belt that costs - its the labour and that is down to access. I once had a MK2 Cavalier 1600 ( great car if you like 80's stuff ) which I was charged just £70 to change the cambelt because access to the belt was fantastic so it took only an hour start to finish.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Mapmaker
>>MK2 Cavalier 1600 ( great car if you like 80's stuff ) which I was charged just £70 to change the cambelt

My 1999 1.8 Vectra cost £80 to change the cambelt earlier this year. 1.2 hours' labour.








And £100 for the tensioners & belt.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Mapmaker
£495 for a 16 year old car, stu? Bonkers. Pay £1,000 for a 6 year old car - the difference is less than Rattle has spent on his pile of rubbish, and you will be buying reliability, comfort and a decent car.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Yep I want newer really also I know I keep banging on this about this but insurance is very expensive on older jap cars. And PS I know I keep saying I am not annoyed or upset but secretly I am actually kicking myself for not doing enough checks, I knew was I was looking for too, I just let my heart rule my head. In future I am going to ask a lot more questions before even seeing the car, that way I can rule a car out in my head.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - the swiss tony
For goodness sake Rattle... its only a clutch!!!
clutches are a wear and tear item, like brake pads and disc's, only a bit harder to fit!
I have known clutches to go on low mileage, nearly new cars, so for one to go on an old fiesta - par for the course really.
And as you yourself have said, you are in the habit of 'riding' the clutch - a habit to get out of Id say - so when you brought the car, the clutch may have had no problems... in fact, I dont remember you mentioning it until your breakdown.
Lets have a bit more info about what happened just BEFORE the clutch went, were you in traffic? going up a hill?

If the worst thing that ever goes wrong in one of your cars,is this clutch... fantastic!

In my time, I have put 2nd hand engines in my bangers to get a few more miles from them!

Edited by the swiss tony on 14/12/2008 at 18:19

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Swiss if it was only a clutch no problem but when you find a bit of rust in your header tank it does show other problems in the future. I will tell you exactly what happened:-

A week or so after buying the car and after the oil change I noticed my car was quite smokey I was worried about HG, took to my mechanic who had a could listen and felt all the hoses and decided that the smoke was just condensation and to take on a blast, I drove with my dad on the motorway and all smoke cleared but once or twice the car seemed slow when pulling away as if I had not put enough revs on but the car was doing a lot of revs.

This symton them happened a feww other times but thought it was just me.

On the brake down what happened is I was driving along at 25mph in 3rd and the car suddenly went really lumpy as if I was about to run out of fuel. Changed into 4th and problem went away but still remained a bit on 3rd then cleared up. Went to get petrol pulled out of the station and nothing, lots of revs but the car just didn#t seem to move, I had to put an awful lot of revs on to get it to move, at this point I smelt some friction and thought I may have done some damage to the clutch but I couldn't see how. Anyway drove on the way back home and the spare wheel tray fell to the floor, so this caused my brake down until I sorted it. Drove back home clutch wasn't too bad but did slip a few times.

Drove it today for the first proper time and at first (1 mile or so) it drove perfectly then the slipping started again but only once, was pulling away from the lights and I had to put a of revs on and nothing really seemed to happen and towards the end of the journey the lumpyness in 3rd returned. I am worried if I get the clutch done there may be some fuel delivery problem causing the lumpyness or is this symptons of a failing clutch?

About a week before the clutch went I was in a lot of a traffic, for about 25 minutes, I was making an effort not to ride the clutch though. I have also 'rode' the clutch in traffic for years and never had any clutch problems before.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Pugugly
Have a look at the Verso thread - there maybe a reliable bargain for you there
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - stunorthants26
I would suggest more like £350 MM. Buying an old car that wont go wrong much is not about actual value of the vehicle, but finding a car that will have fewer troubles.
The problem with late 90's stuff is that failures of electrics can render them uneconomic to repair, so even if you get them for free, they can still work out worse value than an older, simpler car.

I bought my Rover diesel against my better judgement - I wanted an early 80's diesel for mechanical simplicity - instead I bought mid-90's thinking it wouldnt go wrong as much and had failures of obscure parts and bits like EGR valve, turbo pipes, solenoids and various other little bits made it stupidly expensive in the end. I wish id stuck with my original plan.
I should have bought the Pug 305 diesel I found for £200 with full T&T.

If you want a cheap car, a simple, and thus old car, make the most sense as long as you buy well.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - the swiss tony
If you want a cheap car a simple and thus old car make the most
sense as long as you buy well.

Hear Hear Stu.... I firmly believe that sooner rather than later, 'old' cars (over 8 years) will cease to exist....
Take the Merc A class Mk 1 W168...
a few commonly required parts;

Air Mass Sensor - come as part of the engine ECU Aprrox £1000 part only

Yaw sensor (for stability control - if light on MOT fail...) £1000 on early cars, again part only.

gearbox fault? if your very lucky £250, more than likely over £1500.

what the car worth?

In my experience, when older cars break down, is more than likely to be a quick roadside fix, and away you go again (replace points, clean out carb that kinda thing) where as todays cars may not breakdown so often, but when they do.....
(AA/RAC man rubs chin..... breaths in deeply... 'well Ill take you to the local dealers..... you DO have warranty on this, dont you? No?'
Breaths in even deeper....

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - NowWheels
I firmly believe that sooner rather than later, 'old' cars (over 8 years) will cease to exist....
Take the Merc A class Mk 1 W168..


The A-class is hardly a representative example of cars of that era. A manufacturer within no experience of small cars setting out to create an innovative one, just at the time its general quality control was plummeting, and Merc parts have always been expensive
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
My Fiesta has all the modern electronics and parts are not dearer. The most expensive control part is the probably the cat, but the MAF is only about £95. I know it is expensive but no where near £1k.

My finances are better suited to a car that will go wrong which is cheap to fix, rather than something which occasionaly goes wrong but costs a fortune at the same time I want something fairly modern so it is finding something that is simple to fix but also has airbags and impact bars etc.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
Just put it on the free adds for £325 ono so I will see what happens.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Number_Cruncher
>>and Merc parts have always been expensive

Yes, you need to be at least one of two things to run an older Mercedes out of warranty cover;

1) Rich

2) Resourcefull

Alas, I can't claim the former!

Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - 1400ted
What about a Morris Minor thats had it's welding done. Dead reliable, simple, economical and free road tax and cheap insurance. And, Rattle, there's a long established specialist not far from you, at the back of the shops on Upper Chorlton Road.
Ted
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Rattle
hehe yeah I know the place well, I would be a bigt worried about having a crash in it though! Maybe when I am experienced I could get one, I do like the idea of a car you can actually carry out spanneering on though.

At the moment I am just going to see what happens, if I see a good car regardless of make I will look at it, but I am not going to be active in car hunting yet rushing got me into this mess.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - Avant
Have a look at Espada's current Honda thread. Even if (as you said above) older Japanese cars are more expensive to insure (shop around), if they cost you less in repairs you will be better off. Honda Civic / Toyota Corolla / Nissan Almera / Mazda 323 - all a bit bigger than a Fiesta, and rust usually gets them long before the oily bits wear out. Find one with minimal rust and you should be fine.
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - 1400ted
Rattle...so no Moggie yet.? I agree with above post...Japs very reliable but watch for rust, even Hondas.
Another good Jap is the 90s Sunny. Often pensioner owned from new. Try fish4cars.co.uk. you can have lots of fun putting in details of what you fancy and keeping them not too far to travel to see.
Have a look at this one, www.fish4.co.uk/iad/cars/advert?adId=22671876&sid=...h a Northwich phone no. Looks nice. Mint Nreg Sunny 1.4 auto. 61K miles. under £800 Good time to haggle
Ted
Had my first breakdown not nice - Clutch has gone - jase1
Three approaches in my book to bargain bangers:

1) Buy a Ford or a Vauxhall. Cheap parts. Only really worth it though if you can fettle the cars yourself -- the labour charges are the same as any other car, and Vauxhalls in particular tend to fall apart as they get older.

2) Buy a Jap car. Get the right one, and you'll only ever visit your mechanic once per year. Even cars that are little more than festering piles of rust keep dragging themselves along almost indefinitely. Probably the safest bet is to buy a newer Nissan or Mitsubishi -- worthless second-hand but run forever. Hondas tend to be too expensive for what they are IMO, and the Honda-based Rovers are too old now.

3) Korean. They aren't the best cars in the world, but the point with these is that you can sometimes buy them at only 5 years old for next to nothing. With the aftersales packages you get with these, and the fact that they're usually only bought as retirement or second cars, they've usually led an easy life, with low mileage and regular servicing. Hyundais in particular represent fantastic VFM, although the resale values are now sureing up so not the bargain they once were.

I would definitely agree with Nissan though -- IMO the best cheap cars on the market today, as long as you avoid some post-2000 models that have been compromised by a combination of a near-bankrupt Nissan penny-pinching and Renault interference.