Passed a house with the AA man starting a car the other day - the chap had waited 90 mins+ for the AA to come to the 07 Chevrolet Kalos.
He lives on a hill, level driveway - should he have least tried a bump start rather than wait for the AA.
Surely that would have been what most people would do? At least he might have got to work on time.
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True, but he may have read somewhere in his handbook that bump starting could damage the catalytic converter? Or maybe it was an auto
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How steep is the hill. No servos for the brakes and no power steering too.
Edited by rtj70 on 30/11/2008 at 23:51
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Need to ascertain what caused a 1 year old battery to flatten, hence if in doubt call them out.
Definately wouldn't recommend allowing a car to coast downhill in an attempt to jump start it as per reasons above, safety is the primary priority.
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My old Rover 3500 auto could be jump started - according to the handbook.
From memory, get the thing rolling at about 15mph and kick down hard in drive.
The book said it was best to push the car rather than pull it, because when the engine caught, the car leapt forward and it was all too easy to smash into the back of the towing vehicle.
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In a lot of cars nowadays, power is needed for the ECU to function - a completely flat battery would be insufficient to power up the ECU so bump starting would be no good (and would probably damage the ECU anyway).
And jump starting modern cars is a no-no unless you have anti-surge jump leads or at least follow the procedure to not start up the target vehicle while jump leads are attached. Best to attach leads, leave donor vehicle running for 10 minutes or so to charge up target battery. Stop donor and remove jump leads, then try to start target.
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>>And jump starting modern cars is a no-no unless you have.....
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>>......Stop donor and remove jump leads, then try to start target.
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RTFM for Fords (and others) because you certainly cannot guess the recommended procedure prior to removing the jump leads
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RTFM for Fords (and others) because you certainly cannot guess the recommended procedure prior to removing the jump leads
REPEAT OF PREVIOUS ADVICE. Take the manual, photocopy and hugely enlarge the page on jump starting procedures, so the text is about 1/4 inch big, laminate that sheet, and put it in the bag with the jump leads.
Piddling about with a manual at night, in wind and rain on the roadside is NOT advisable.
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Ian.
A good idea, I will do as you suggest.
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"should he have least tried a bump start rather than wait for the AA. At least he might have got to work on time"
Might not have got back though. I'd rather sort it out from home especially if you have to wait 90+ minutes. TV, coffee and a sofa - no brainer.
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Much quicker to get a hot water bottle onto the battery and try to warm it up a bit to see if that would kick it into life. Could have been something else eg failed immobiliser or they had driven it a short distance, turned it off when cold then tried to start it again.
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Presumably once the engine is turning over going downhill the power steering would work, along with the brakes if a diesel. (No idea what drives the vacuum pump on a diesel car).
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"Presumably once the engine is turning over going downhill the power steering would work"
Not if it's electrically powered....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_steering and scroll to a list of models with electric PAS.
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Must admit, i would have tried to bump it, however, all these dire warnings have scared me to death ! ... I suppose this is "progress" ?
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If the car is at home I'd swap on a spare battery from another car, or jump start if the procedure is OK.
I'd at least put the battery on charge before going in for a coffee.
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In all honesty, I would have jumped it, and it wouldn't even have occurred to me to read the manual before doing something that's been an accepted standard practice on cars since they were first fitted with electric starters.
Being expected to swap batteries or remove from the car and charge is frankly ridiculous, not to mention completely useless when you're away from home. Given that a 'non-jumpable' car is more likely to strand its owner for a significant length of time than a jumpable one, it should have its safety rating reduced IMHO.
Cheers
DP
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In all honesty I would have jumped it and it wouldn't even have occurred to me to read the manual before doing something that's been an accepted standard practice on cars since they were first fitted with electric starters.
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MMM!. Accepted practice seems to say put the neg lead on the battery.
I understand it is better to put it on the engine.
Some modern cars have specific " jumper connection " terminals.
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Things have moved on since electric starters so IMO ignore what grandad and so called "accepted standard practice" says and believe that car makers put instructions in the manual for good reason hence my plea RTFM.
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Some modern cars have specific " jumper connection " terminals.
Yes, my Volvo does. Clearly marked with a + and an RTFM logo stuck next to it. I took this to be more because the battery is buried under covers in the boot than for any technical reason, but it's clear to anyone opening the bonnet that a) it's a battery positive terminal post, and b) read the manual if you're not clear what to do with it. When accompanied by such clarity, I have no problem with this at all.
When you operate a car, you do so mostly on experience, and you rely on that experience more than any printed material. If a manufacturer designs a car with a procedure that is counter-intuitive to most operators, and could cause thousands of pounds worth of damage if ignored, they have a certain responsibility to make that much clearer than a few lines buried in the bowels of a manual that many first owners lose or don't pass on to second owners. Better still do as many manufacturers still do and design an electrical system that will tolerate conventional jump starting. I'm still trying to think what excuse there is for not building in the appropriate surge protection at least to the delicate areas of the system - it would cost pennies.
This is not welding or some other obscure process which can fry an ECU if disconnection procedures aren't followed, but something that pretty much every single driver in the world will have done or have had done for them at some stage in their driving career.
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Tow,bump or jump starting will not damage a catalyst PROVIDED it starts the engine straightaway-what damages the cat is starting the engine when the cat is soaked in unburnt fuel.
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Putting the negative jump lead on the engine or other metal is only recommended so that there is no chance of any spark near the battery.
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