Driving around in a Vauxhall Astra today (almost new example) reminded me of a bugbear I have with newer vehicles.
Gearbox linkages. Is it just me or are the majority of newer cars just carp in this regard?
I have had a succession of 90s Nissan cars, so perhaps I'm spoilt I don't know, but I am used to gearshifts that are:
a) short throw
b) the gearstick pretty much 'finds' the next gear automatically
c) there is no slowness to the change
d) it doesn't feel like you're pulling at bits of string to change gear
e) the linkage doesn't feel as if it's made of cheap plastic, or clicks away like it's about to self-destruct
f) actually feels as if there is some dampening process going on behind the scenes, without it feeling rubbery
g) you don't get that strange sensation of the system "catching up with itself" once the gear has actually engaged.
I think it's the cable-operated linkages that are to blame. The Astra's shift is the same as any other GM car I've driven -- plasticky, clicky, clunky and notchy. Horrid, in other words.
The Daewoo I have is even worse, but I'll forgive that as it is (a) a cheap car, and (b) an old one. A new Astra shouldn't be like this.
The Fiesta isn't much better -- you can feel the cables in that one, and the odd sensation of metal-to-metal chafing. Hyundais are similar. I haven't driven a newer PSA car, but the older ones had very little spring in them and the gearshift felt floppy and badly weighted.
Renaults (and newer Nissans) are just plain sloppy -- gearstick just flopping around when you're driving. VWs are the reverse -- slow, and clunky, but at least they feel as if they're built to last. Probably aren't but that's the feeling you get.
What is the point in having a car that handles if this basic refinement feature is so lacking in most cars?
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I've not noticed the problems you describe in any of the cars I've owned. Are the problems apparent to you because of the speed at which you move the gear lever? I move the gear lever in a relaxed but positive manner, pausing momentarily (but only very momentarily) as the lever passes through the neutral position. I never snatch the lever because I don't feel the need to get a super-fast change. The faster you change gear the greater the force you will put on the mechanism, and the more likely you are to notice the characteristics you describe.
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I think you need lessons in changing gear.
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I think you need lessons in changing gear.
Me or jase 1?
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"The faster you change gear the greater the force you will put on the mechanism and the more likely you are to notice the characteristics you describe."
I'm very light with my gear changes -- and in a lot of cars I've noticed that this makes the feel even more noticeable.
The fact that the old Nissan boxes don't exhibit any of these traits says something doesn't it? They just click, click into place, no notchiness, no noise, just get the job done.
If you really want to know what a bad gearbox feels like though the old Daewoos take some beating. GM shifts have a plasticky feel, and Korean cars' boxes tend to be built to be ultra-light, which builds some notchiness and slack into proceedings that you wouldn't otherwise feel. Combine the two, eurgh.
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Our office pool car is an Astra and I can only agree about the gear change, it's awful for such a new car.
Combined with the engine flat spot around 2500rpm that Opel have built into all their products since the early 90s, it makes smooth driving in traffic next to impossible.
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I know what jase is on about, ive experienced it many times in more modern cars.
My Daihatsu is a bit notchy until its warm but its one of the better boxes ive come across in recent years and is very slick when warm.
My Suzuki van had a very light change but no matter how you swung it and how much clutch you gave it, still it would crunch going into 3rd sometimes, yet other times it would be fine. Sometimes id miss 3rd altogether as they were spaces so close.
I do recall the worst box though was on a Talbot motorhome, mid-80's vintage - it was a physical effort to even get it it a gear, that was, if you could find one - the box was a wealth of possibilities but none of which seemed to be possible to find - from 1st you could end up with either 2nd or 4th - the gate was so narrow that from any one point, you never really knew what you would get. I hated it with a passion! 3rd was especially elusive!
Good boxes - well the Transit 80's- 90's had a great slick box on it, lovely to drive they were.
Nissan Micra 93 onwards was brilliant too.
In more recent cars I found the Pug 207 smooth but the throw is a little long.
Toyota Corolla isnt too bad although im no fan of dash mounted sticks.
BMW's arent too bad in my experience, usually well weighted but smooth across the gate.
They arent all bad, but its true that notchy gearboxes are the norm nowadays.
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I'll bet there are good and bad examples on most models - I just don't believe that all the parts in a gearbox can be made to such fine tolerances that the overall result is always the same.
The famous example of a poor linkage was on the Mk.1 Maxi (1969) which was cable-operated, but only for about a year as the change was so dire.
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It can be done properly - daughter's Mitsubishi Colt has a very baulky gearchange, and apparently Mitsubishi's are noted for it.
Our Jazz, on the other hand, and other Honda's I've driven, have absolutely effortless gear changes.
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I used to drive a Renault Laguna, and the gearchange on that was effortless you could more or less do it with your little finger, one thing on that car that worked very well.
My Astra is clunky if you "power change" (for want of a better expresion) however when the car has warmed up can be smooth if you take the gear changes slowely, (however it could be better.... if Renualt can do it it, im sure Vauxhall could if they made the effort)
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I heard that often using a different (thinner/thicker?) transmission oil makes gear change smoother.
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forgot to add, that I had two Laguna's and the gearboxes where exactly the same both effortless
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I used to drive a Renault Laguna and the gearchange on that was effortless you could more or less do it with your little finger one thing on that car that worked very well.
Don't get me wrong, the Renault ones are some of the better gearchanges out there, but they need to get the floppy stick sorted (ahem).
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"It can be done properly - daughter's Mitsubishi Colt has a very baulky gearchange, and apparently Mitsubishi's are noted for it"
The only mitsubishi I have driven is our own Lancer, which is not baulkly, and petty slick. The rod change on our 13 year old, 150K Honda is better though.
Edited by *Gongfarmer* on 25/09/2008 at 14:20
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Much older rear wheel drive cars where the gear stick almost went straight into the gearbox had wonderful gear changes. I'm thinking of my old Triumph Herald and my dad's Triumph 2500TC.
Then we went through a time where front wheel drive was coming in with much longer linkages that could be awfully imprecise.
Nowadays, the 2 cars I drive, Honda Jazz and Fiat Panda, have wonderfully slick and precise gear changes and are both front wheel drive.
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its all down to FWD cars. 70s and 80s fords, Front engine, RWD, 4 speed box with the lever sprouting out of the centre of the gearbox (no linkage at all to speak of) was perfect.
I have had three VW gearbox cars in a row, all pretty good it has to be said. the Altea is a delight to perform clutchless changes, i can feel the teeth enganging.
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'My dear, what is that gnashing noise?
Could it be Lucifer you're paging?'
'No, it's AE. He's changing gear.
He likes to feel the teeth engaging.'
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the gear stick almost went straight into the gearbox had wonderful gear changes. I'm thinking of my old Triumph Herald and my dad's Triumph 2500TC.
... and Ford gearboxes from around 1960, after years and years of 3-speed with no synchro on bottom, came out with the Porsche baulk-ring synchromesh four-speed for Cortina Mk I and perhaps just before it for the first ohv Anglia...
The one in the first Lotus Elan had a lever about three inches long, like a light switch, click-click, fabulous...
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>>The one in the first Lotus Elan had a lever about three inches long, like a light switch, click-click, fabulous... <<
It was indeed, m'Lud. If you get a chance, try an MX5, it even sounds the same.
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Our old MX-5 gearbox was one of those which I just used to use for the hell of it. Short throw, and a lovely, oiled, mechanical feel to it. Typical RWD job though in that the stick dropped straight into the tail housing of the gearbox. I recall my old Sierra being the same, but longer of throw. Still very satisfying to use though.
Can't say I've even noticed the gearchange in any other car I've owned, or the two we own now, which means they're probably neither good or bad. They just do the job. The Scenic's is a little notchy on cold oil, but otherwise it's fine. Volvo's gearchange is fine, but the long travel clutch makes it feel ponderous.
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Our old MX-5 gearbox was one of those which I just used to use for the hell of it. Short throw and a lovely oiled mechanical feel to it.
What seems to be coming out of this thread is that, in general, the Japanese boxes are the ones that most closely match my idea of an ideal box.
That would bear out my experience. Nissan, Toyota and Honda all have really nice boxes, or at least they did a few years back.
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Anglia and 1200 Cortina only had synchro on 2,3,4. 4-speed synchro only fitted to 1500.
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Used to avoid using the clutch on Ford boxes in the 70s just for the fun of it.
Changing up, particularly third to fourth, was almost easier without pushing the clutch pedal.
Changing down was a bit harder, but knock it out of gear, blip the throttle and it would often go in quite nicely.
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If you want to experience the ultimate in manual gearboxes then I have to say the 6 speed Honda manual is an absolute dream. Short throw, precise and it all feels very fluid and well oiled. Allot of people ask what is meant when they see a car described as well engineered and this is another example of doing it properly.
I have heard motoring presenters/journalists describing it as the best gearbox in production and I would have to agree. Unlike other gearboxes it is not sealed for life either - another reason you know it will go on for ever as it will be maintained.
The worst gearbox I have experienced is in a Polo - and it was a fairly new one but it was everything the Honda was not, notchy, vague in it's travel through the gate and had absolutely no feel to tell whether you had even selected a gear.
I think HJ is a big fan of the Lexus manual in the IS and describes it as a rifle bolt action - again very precise and manufactured to a very high standard.
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The five speed gearbox in my Renault 18 GTX was pretty good, and had good driving ratios too (with top not a motorway economy cruising gear but a real top gear). But you could beat the synchro if you were rough with it. Sometimes, the car itself being quite quiet, you could hear the synchromesh quietly going 'zizzzzz' as it worked during gear changes. I liked that for some reason.
Edited by Lud on 25/09/2008 at 20:02
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For a really tactile gearchange a Reliant three wheeler is hard to beat. You can actually feel 'things' being moved about as gears are changed.
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The acme of manual boxes was the MK2 Escort - Mrs P had one in the 80s - Clutchless gear changes were easily achievable.
Edited by Pugugly on 25/09/2008 at 22:44
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