Hey, y'all:
Here's a story that might make you cringe: One day when I was seventeen and had recently got my driving licence, my dear father decided he was going to take me out in his car and teach me to drive a manual transmission. (I had taken all my behind-the-wheel training on automatic cars, so this was entirely new to me) So, we hopped in his '76 AMC Hornet station wagon and headed out on an empty frontage road in Minnesota. Once there we switched seats and I *tried* to learn this.
No luck. I understood the concept perfectly in my head, but could not shift and do the clutch for anything. If I remember right, I killed the engine several times whilst my dad sat in the passsenger seat, growing increasingly angry at my incompetence..."(Swear words).............IT'S EASY! WHAT ARE YOU, LAZY?!?!?!"
After 20 minutes or so of me trying to learn this and failing, Dad getting more and more upset and me panicking, we gave up and Dad drove us home, me ashamed and Dad so angry he couldn't speak.
Question: I'm 44 years old now. Is it too late to try again? Should I just stick with the slushbox? I haven't tried again since then.
Edited by Pebble on 02/09/2008 at 06:21
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Does your license allow you to drive manual cars?
I don't know the vagaries of US licensing, but know that in SA if you pass on an auto box, you can only drive autos.
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Oh sure, I have an American Class C licence which allows me to drive either autobox or manual--it's just learning the stick that's hard.
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After 27 years driving cars with auto boxes I think you are even less likely to get the hang of a manual. I know that the price of petrol is getting scarey even for you Americans but you can get some very economical automatics that use CVTs or clutchless gearboxes.
I would particularly recommend the Honda Jazz/Fit if you have that over there.
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If you are going to try again I suggest you get a proper driving instructor to teach you, with all due respect to your Dad I don't think close relatives are the best teachers of driving... speaking from experience of both sides!
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How on Earth have you got a driving licence to drive a manual where'as you've never drove one in your life!
Ladydog learnt on an auto & she's only licenced to drive an auto (thank goodness !)
Why would you want to drive a manual pebble ????????
Ya'll be wanting an automobile with a starting handle next :)
And ... why would a yankee want to drive a Honda Jazz Dr. Chris ???
Dog.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/09/2008 at 19:49
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Why would you want to drive a manual pebble ????????
I suspect there's a big muscley V8 Yankee sports car in the equation somewhere!
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It will be much easier to learn with a modern car because it has electronically controlled idling speed. Especially with a big engine it is almost impossible to stall when starting on the flat.
Get someone calm and cool who doesn't shout or call you an idiot to show you, and spend a bit of time just getting the hang of letting the clutch in slowly and feeling the way the car starts to pull. Don't bother with the other gears for a while, just become really competent at stopping and starting and making it move along smoothly.
Then try with a plank or a bit of wedge under a wheel, and get the feel of needing to give it more gas in a slow controlled way to make the car climb and the engine work harder. Don't risk a real hill until you can do it over an obstacle on the level.
The other gears will be easy once you have mastered basic clutch control.
Good luck!
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In fact, with most torquey cars, you should be able to pull away without touching the gas at all, as long as you slip the clutch gently enough.
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Apparently Americans who've only ever driven autos coming over here on holiday and picking up a manual car is a significant issue for hire car companies.
When my daughters learned to drive, I explained the concept (using the idea of bringing a spinning dinner plate into contact with a fixed one) how clutches work, hoping that being able to visualise what was happening when they released the clutch would help. To be sexist, the girls don't fully understand these things, but they do remember everything they're told.
I also found that getting the car on a flat empty car park and having them trickle the car along by letting the clutch in and out while the engine was on tickover helped them get the feel of the clutch.
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To be sexist the girls don't fully understand these things but they do remember everything they're told.
Your fault for not talking about this stuff sooner I'm afraid; nothing to do with them being girls.
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How on Earth have you got a driving licence to drive a manual where'as you've never drove one in your life!
Oh, easy--as long as you pass the road test, it doesn't matter; you're licenced to drive either manual or auto. There's no restriction to driving auto only if you passed your test on an automatic car.
Thanks for everybody's input whilst I slept...I was thinking about the last car my wife bought, she ended up buying something different from what she originally wanted because it had an autobox which meant we could switch cars when necessary. That's what made me consider this idea. Crazy Americans! :) Anyway, my father was probably the worst choice of people to teach me this, he was not then nor is now a patient man. Had someone else done it, I might have been able to learn properly.
Edited by Pebble on 02/09/2008 at 13:54
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Question: I'm 44 years old now. Is it too late to try again? Should I just stick with the slushbox? I haven't tried again since then.
Well, have another go, then! It's not difficult, possibly the pressure you were under was inhibiting you. Get in some vehicle in a deserted somewhere, and pootle about in it for a while. Moving off is easy to try, in a deserted somewhere it won't matter if you stall the thing, and you won't be embarrassed if you're on your own, and as for the rest - push the clutch down, change gear, let the clutch up - done. You can refine your technique when you've got the very basics.
Personally, I've driven manual change cars for ever, except that nearly two years ago, I had a go in an automatic. I still get the shudders, remembering how awful it felt!
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If 25 million limies can do it, it cant be that hard.
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There's a physio-mechanical trick to starting a manual without stalling it: keep your clutch heel on the floor and pivot your clutch foot at the ankle, which gives a measure of fine clutch control. The learner-driver's instinct is to stomp the clutch down from the hip and knee, and to lift off in the same way, making a stall almost inevitable. I wonder if Pebble's dad explained that, in words?
Anyway I have now Pebble, so you can go ahead. Your dad was right, it really is easy, a small skill (but a skill nonetheless) that quickly becomes habit.
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It's very easy to develop a 'block' over things like this. You know deep down it's quite easy really, but the initial bad experience can exert an almost physical impediment to (re)learning.
As mentioned above, perhaps you need to 'reprogramme' yourself in some sense - get a manual car in some quiet place & just 'play' for a while. Think it's no big deal to stall it or over-rev it a bit, hey, even try to stall it for fun! Just defuse & de-sensitise the whole issue for yourself. May I even venture to suggest that the 'stalling car thing' is wrapped up, in some sense, with your perception about being a 'good' or 'useful' son? No offence here, I can remember my Dad trying to teach me to swim (unsuccessfully!) - he sounds similar in some way to your Dad - perhaps too keen for you to make progress & hence maybe a bit too eager for you to progress at his rate - not yours.
If it's any help - I'm now an excellent swimmer & even worked as lifeguard for a while after I taught myself to swim & left the 'baggage' behind!
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he sounds similar in some way to your Dad - perhaps too keen for you to make progress
Everyone's dad is a bit like that, or nearly everyone's. It can be a bit upsetting when you first realise you have become like that yourself.
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Question: I'm 44 years old now. Is it too late to try again? Should I just stick with the slushbox? I haven't tried again since then.
Manual gearboxes are a piece of automotive fossilry, a diabolically crude abomination which should have been killed off some time around the demise of the dinosaurs ... or if they missed that deadline, then they should have been superseded when steering wheels succeeded tillers in cars.
If you think that taking a hand off the steering wheel in order to wiggle a stick on the floor in harmony with a pedal is "fun", then go for it. (Especially if you like balancing the car on the brake when doing hill starts). Personally, I think that sort of "fun" is about as appealing as cooking a souffle on an open fire or putting barbed wire in your underwear ... but whatever floats your boat, as they say.
BTW, commiserations on your driving lessons with Pa. Sounds like a good illustration of why family members may not be the best driving instructors. (I have never understood why some people think that swearing and shouting until the pupil is flustered is likely to help the learner)
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I echo your sentiments entirely NW but ... if I was to purchase an MX5 (which I wouldn't mind doing) I wouldn't even consider an autobox.
What I do find mind-boggling though is the fact that in The States you can pass the driving test on an autobox and then go out and drive a manual anytime (good grief!)
The same as me hiring a 7.5 ton lorry a couple of years back - on a car driving licence!
I used to be a lorry driver so its not so bad for me ... no doubt things have changed now though (law wise)?
Dog.
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Manual gearboxes are a piece of automotive fossilry a diabolically crude abomination which should have
Sorry - My previous post should read
"If 24,999,999 brits can do it - it cant be that hard"
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No, 25 million was perfectly correct. There are plenty of folks like me who dislike using crude and outdated technology, but who are perfectly capable of using it skilfully if that's the only thing available.
I can use a manual gearbox, and have driven many tens of thousands of miles on them. I'm not bad at it either: one prospective father-in-law was so impressed at my ability to smoothly double-declutch the wrecked gearbox on my old banger that he instantly dropped his chilly hostility to me. (I had learnt to drive on a tractor, where it was an essential skill)
But double-declutching is a silly thing to be doing when synchromesh is available to make life easier, just as electric irons are vastly superior to the warm-on-the fire sort. I wonder does Alera Ego open his tinned food by stabbing the lid with a screwdriver, or does he use a tinopener?
Edited by Pugugly on 03/09/2008 at 18:17
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Our parent company in the US employed test drivers;there were some who had been driving cars for 30+ years and were unable to drive manual cars-at that time-late 80's,95% of the US market was autos.
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-at that time-late 80's 95% of the US market was autos.
Has that changed since then? Surely the merkins haven't been regressing to stick-wiggling?
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Merkins NW? Now there's a bit of outdated technology if you like... :o}
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Yes,a lot more "stick-shifts" now;a lot of the smaller cars and some of the Japanese are manuals.
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you "guys" in the states are so lazy..try eating with a knife and fork instead of a spoon then have another go :)
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Arn't us humans strange things, i wouldn't give you a thankyou for a manual box, but have had to drive millions of miles in them, whilst the OP having had the pleasure of proper (not those silly automanu things) auto's wants to change gear.
My suggestion would be to use an older pick up or other similar vehicle with a good size engine, as it will be all but impossible to stall, and once you've got the hang of it and gained confidence the rest will come.
I think the most modern cars, especially the diesels are awful to learn on, even skilled drivers can stall the things as easy as look at them, they've got no tickover or very low speed torque.
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>> I think the most modern cars especially the diesels are awful to learn on even skilled drivers can stall the things as easy as look at them they've got no tickover or very low speed torque.
Exactly the opposite of what I've found. It's very very hard to stal a diesel - even a petrol - nowadays since the Engine Mgt tries at all times to maintain a minimum rev.
I've often held (experimenting of course!) both petrol and diesels on steep hills through simply slipping the clutch and no foot on the throttle.
It isn't hard to learn to drive a manual - my son managed fine at 10 years old!
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When driving through a large town or city, one could compare the ease of an autobox to a remote controlled TV, and a manual box to the old TV's where you had to get off the sofa (perish the thought) and twiddle the knobs or press some buttons *each time* you wanted to change gear/channels ... and going back even further in thyme, ya even had to change the direction of the indoor aerial for each of the *2* channels!
Manuals do come into their own on motorways though or for "seat of the pants" driving pleasure on the open road.
Dog.
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I am becoming quite old. I have driven so much and so far in so many different vehicles that I no longer really notice the physical motions of driving. They are now deeply intuitive and must I suppose be operated by a spare bit of brain. ( that which still remains )
Resultantly, I don't really have a view on whether I prefer manual over auto or RWD over FWD and so on anymore. I guess I just adjust unconciously to whatever I happen to sit at the controls of and get on with it. My concious thoughts are with whatever is going on around the vehicle not what I am physically doing inside it.
Long winded way of saying that other than the odd occasion when my inner child comes to the fore, in which case I would prefer manual every time, I don't really mind how the gears are changed. Fact is I don't particularly notice it.
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Drove a PT Cruiser in the US for around 2k miles. A pretty decent little car spoilt by it auto transmission. A Manual version would have been far more flexible and responsive.
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I hereby accuse you of being an automaton Brother Backbridge - we all are ... I could "jump" in a stick-shift and drive orf like I've always driven a manual - and not have to think about the modu operandi of it all.
>>>A pretty decent little car spoilt by it auto transmission.<< Yes! some cars can be killed by an auto trans, I must admit.
Dog.
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By the way, having owned twelve or thirteen automatic cars, I'd have to say the best setup was in my 1961 Plymouth Valiant: push-button automatic. No shift lever, but a row of buttons for the usual PRND21, on the extreme left side of the dash. Start the car, hit the D button, and you'd hear this huge CLUNK as the transmission engaged--the whole car would shudder; you always felt like the whole underside of the car was going to give way.
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Pebble: I had a 1964 Plymouth, same body as the Belvedere but a 3.7 litre slant six engine (fabulous unit), with that pushbutton transmission. The Park control wasn't a button though but a lever moving in a vertical slot to operate the transmission lock. It only made a huge CLUNK! if you applied that lock when the car was moving, something I only did once...
It wasn't a very exciting car but it was an extremely good and solid consumer product, about the size of a contemporary Rolls-Royce, engine just about run in at 80,000 miles, kept the oil clean all the way from NJ to California and back, 8,000 miles, without using a drop. Driven Californian mimser style it did better than 25 miles to a niggardly US gallon too.
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I hereby accuse you of being an automaton Brother Backbridge -
Yeah OK. Especially if someone winds me up.
I'll ...um....be off then shall I ? Coat.....?
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Don't bother. I could double declutch my old 3gear Ford Anglebox into first with the best of them but manual gearboxes these days make as much sense as non-remote control TVs.
I suspect the only reason they are still encouraged is that they provide no protection for the mechanicals, thus providing the motor trade with a constant source of income repairing engines and connected appliances which have been inappropriately revved or laboured for years, clutches, transmission and even suspension bearings which have been repetitively stressed by jerky driving habits, even premature replacement of tyres.
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That is a very good point John F ... Although an auto can still be hammered, they tend to (on the whole) be driven in a gentler fashion + they change up/down at the correct and often low RPM ... I used to like my old BMW 525e, it would go into 4th at an incredibly low RPM ... how about my statement about brake pads being cheaper than gearboxes and clutches (in a manual) surely it makes sense to use the brakes - to brake, rather than use engine braking (whatever the handbook may say)
Dog.
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... Although an auto can still be hammered
Oh I dunno... spool it up to 5,000, bang it into Drive, lay some rubber, it's what your Chevy's for...
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>>>Oh I dunno... spool it up to 5,000, bang it into Drive, lay some rubber, it's what your Chevy's for... <<<
hehehe!
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