Hi all,
Just looking for some advice & comments. SWMBO & I have decided to replace the ol' Xantia with a new car, and we don't want to spend more than 7k. On a new car. Yes, I know I can get a used Alfa GTV for that sort of money and probably a very nice new-ish Xantia, but we're both sold on the idea of a 52 plate and a 3 year warranty.
We're thinking of a Punto with the 8v engine but a nice interior and I'm considering adding the factory fit option of ABS into it. As mentioned in the "first car" thread, I might only ever need it once, but that'd be worth it for me. I rather avoid hitting something than trying out the airbags and pretensioners. I have looked at the C3 (too expensive) and the Saxo (too old now). The Micra looks like a toy with me in it, the Ka neither of us like.
So have I lost my mind? I've spent the last four years espousing the benefit of driving an old car which is paid for and suffering the odd big bill - but I now find myself hypnotised by shiny metallic paint and finance deals. Will I regret this in 2 years time when I'm still paying out every month or will I be happy with the knowledge that I'm protected from big bills in my shiny car?
All advice appreciated,
Lee.
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Lee,
Loads of folks get huge enjoyment from a brand new/almost new car.
From my experience of Fiats be aware you may suffer huge depreciation and a fair amount of returns to get warranty work carried out, even if it doesn't actually cost anything. Plus of course that tie to dealer network servicing to avoid warranty hassle.
Also in going from Xantia to Punto you're moving down a couple of classes and increasing your overall expenditure.
Think hard!
David W
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DW Wrote:Also in going from Xantia to Punto you're moving down a couple of classes and increasing your overall expenditure
You're completely right.
The Xantia is worth maximum £800 and with its MOT looming it's looking expensive this month. As it's done 118k on the 1.6i engine (the CbyC breakdown specifically mentions avoiding any tired old 1.6i) and as I'm now having to use my own car for work, I feel I need the reliabilty of a new(er?) car.
I've been fortunate in the past to be able to get cars with only delivery mileage and I take comfort in knowing that it's only me that has driven them/abused them. The unknown quantity with a second hand car is a major worry; I was lucky with the Xantia in that I knew the one previous lady owner and the dealer who serviced the car from day one.
The moving down class isn't so much an issue. I seem to fit the 3dr Punto OK. I only ever carry the mountain bikes in the back of the Xantia and I can get a rack to do that on a smaller car. The savings on the insurance and petrol and appealing too.
I am very sad to be thinking of leaving Citroen, I am so evangelical about them that most people who know me won't believe it until there's something else on the drive. But the Saxo is too small, the C3 a little too expensive and I can't afford the Xsara which is being replaced anyway. Still, with the residuals (even if only 2-3k) on a 3 year old Punto and with my no claims rebuilt, I can think about getting into the new ZX volcane equivalent, whatever that may be. I'd love to find a pristine 3dr TD volcane, but the newest will now be over 6 years old and getting into tired car territory.
It all boils down to me sacrificing my love of interesting cars to just get some transport organised for the next few years without having to worry about each and every rattle I hear.
Lee
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You already know the potential pit falls in going either route I'm sure. All i would say is take your time and make sure the direction you jump isn't going to be thought a bit rash in a couple of months time.
BTW Is 118 K such a high mileage then? or are there other problems to contend with.
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worry about each and every rattle I hear.
Beleive me you'll worry a lot more about rattles in a new car. The only (not quite) new car I've had was a misery to own. COnstantly monitoring the engine note, constantly afraid to park it.
To me a car is a gamble never bet more than you can afford to lose.
That said I'm about to risk the price of two rovers in the stock market. Must be at a low soonish.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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That said I'm about to risk the price of two rovers in the stock market. Must be at a low soonish. -- P********** Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
>>
That could be about 50 quid, then.
;-)
Ian Cook
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That could be about 50 quid, then. ;-)
Could be minus 15 *but* I was talking about what they cost me to buy, not what I'll have to pay to scrap it!
Big spread between the bid and offer for ageing Rovers.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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>>Must be at a low soonish.
Depends on how long you intend to own. If you`re thinking 1yr+, then I would say it is a very good time to buy. If you are thinking short-term, then prob. worth waiting a little since I think it will pick-up, drop down and then pick-up for real.
But, what do I know ?
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>>Must be at a low soonish. Depends on how long you intend to own. If you`re thinking 1yr+, then I would say it is a very good time to buy. If you are thinking short-term, then prob. worth waiting a little since I think it will pick-up, drop down and then pick-up for real.
I'm planning on investing as a hobby. I'd stay with it a minimum of two years but I'd stay in until I'd got my stake back even if it was 20 years.
But, what do I know ?
Nobody can predict the future. I bought a house against the flow of opinion. It's working out pretty well!
Buying shares when everyone says sell seems an equally good!
(Bear in mind I was a nats chuff away from sticking all my savings into marconi when they droppped to 95p - sitting at 3.25p today.)
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Lee,
My opinions:
1 - I don't know what sort of mileage and roads you drive, but I would recommend you think very carefully, try a couple of long journeys in a small car and then consider whether the brand new car appeals more than the comfort, stability and safety of a 2-year old £7k larger car (or your existing Xantia).
2 - If you are happy with the concept of the smaller car consider very very carefully whether you can afford to stretch your budget a few thousand to buy a Mini. Go on, you know it makes sense! Sensible argument is that depreciation will be peanuts compared with the Italian or French stuff, and build quality and reliability should (though I take no responsibility here) be way better.
Good luck
Andy
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Well, it's taken me three weeks to get around to sitting inside and pressing the pedals on a MINI on our congested roads.
Took a Cooper out last night around the country roads of Huddersfield and I absolutely LOVED it! I've never driven a car that was such a hoot to be behind the wheel of.
Of course, we've blown our budget but the car really is very special. It's going to be hard to stick to the original plan of a ONE and to keep away from the extensive, tempting but ultimately expensive options list.
I now understand why everyone raves about these things. If anyone has a spare hour or so over the next couple of weeks, book yourself in for a test drive down some country roads.
Better still, SWMBO (Hereafter known as She Who Also Likes The Mini) agrees with me, so full steam ahead.
Lee
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I suggest you take a look at the Toyota Yaris. Owners are very happy with build, reliability and economy. And available for £6.5K+.
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Forgot to add, I owned a Micra, and handling on motorways is poor. Not a patch on the Ford Ka I now own. But you don't like the Ka. Me mum had a Punto. Very nice but a bit of a hard ride. So she said.
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I bet you could get a new Fiat Stilo for that price if you hunt around. I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear what it is like to live with, and you'll never have any trouble finding it in the car park. Just park it in the drive tail first so that the neighbours can't see how ugly it is from the back....
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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I absolutely deny that I am nuts !!
Regards, Adam Going
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You've been waiting your whole life to make that joke!!!
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Why not get a car at 1 year old? You should still get 2 years manufacturers warranty.
I am a confirmed Citroen fan, and would buy a C5 if I had the money, but for now there is nothing wrong with the Xsara.
A Xsara 1.6 at 1 year old should be around £7000, and will be the nearest thing to your Xantia, and according to What Car?'s latest reliability table, it is reliable with a higher placing than the 206, Corolla, Rover 400, Polo, Golf, Passat just to name a few.
Ben
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You should be able to buy a last of the line ZX TD as you have mentioned for around £2500. Unless it costs upwards of another £2500 in the next 3 years to maintain you will have saved money, especially if you are financing your new Punto through a garage or bank loan, you know it makes sense! Plus you will lose at least £4000 in depreciation on your new Punto over 3 years, compared to perhaps £1500 on the ZX or similar priced car.
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Thanks to everyone for you replies, sorry to not reply to each in turn but this is easier :
> Toad & Graham
There are other problems to contend with - I got some great help here with a burst water pipe, and with the generous help of DW I managed to avoid a £200 citroen repair bill. The car's been rattling for a while and appears to have lost its heat shield from underneath, which worryingly hasn't sorted the rattle. A visit to an exhaust centre yesterday diagnosed this as a anti-roll bar problem, but not worth fixing if I'm only keeping the car for another 6 weeks.
> Andy
I'm only doing fairly low miles c.10k, but now I need it for work it has to be reliable. Interesting what you say about the long journeys - the test drives never let you near anything approaching 70mph and I do find the Xantia exceptionally relaxing to do distances - more so than either the 406 2.1TD or Golf Cabrio 1.6 I often use on motorways. But then I always worry about my level of RAC cover on the Xantia
I'd absolutely love a MINI, but we've set our budget and despite adding ABS & Metallic to our original costings, I'd really better stick to it!
> Leif
Everyone says the Yaris is excellent, and I've no doubt that it is. But I'm over six foot and quite "cuddly" so I'd feel a bit silly in lots of small cars, the Yaris included. Perhaps it's just insane machismo, but the Punto is the only small car that has passed the window test* and I've felt comfortable with. I've read that the Punto is a bit rough, and the ones I've driven have been quite harsh, but then after the Xantia there's not much at any price that can match the ride quality.
*The Window test is driving slowly past a large window and admiring yourself in your car, especially recommended if you're in a convertible!
> Richard
The Stilo would certainly be unusual, but I think my avantgarde design is more Avantime than rubbish skip! I seriously considered a Bravo before my last ZX and I still think they look quite fresh.
> Adam
I'll set them up, you knock them down!!
> Bennyboy
Interesting point you make there - but were cars supplied with 3 year warranties last year? There's a part of me that would be a little unhappy about paying for the car and being exposed to the repair bills in the 3rd year - assuming I take the 36 months finance.
> Miller
It's scary to see those figures! Perhaps even more of a sign was someone on the Intranet at work selling a K Reg TD (so probably an Avantage) for £1000. Less than the deposit I'll be putting down for the Punto....Crikey
All in all, I need to sit down and think long and hard about the practicalities of the purchase and you've all helped by articulating the concerns I have myself. I really have fallen for the temptation of a new car, something I didn't think I would. In fact even more surprisingly SWMBO has too, and she's usually my calming influence!
I'll think it over and let you know if I have any flashes of inspiration!
Thanks again for all your advice,
Lee.
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Lee.
One other thing before I go to polish the zimmer frame.
I always find that if you leave a decision like this for a month to think it over, the whole idea fades away.
And your'e left with "whatever put that idea in my head"
regards
alvin
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You're possibly right there.
My insurance company is playing up again (Corinthian through Hastings, I wish I'd never heard of them), so I'm stuck with the current car until the end of Sep to build up my shaky NCD.
To get the car with ABS (factory fit) I'd have to order now for Sep delivery. If I don't go for ABS the country is flooded with the model I want, that I could drive away tomorrow.
Maybe that extra time would be useful.
Thanks Alvin,
Lee.
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Lee,
I think you know the answer yourself,
"but I now find myself hypnotised by shiny metallic paint"
many of of us have gone through this ourself and its not a good decision. Many of us have found convincing reasons why we should change our car and its usually reasons such as " its going to need new tyres soon" or "if I don't sell soon its going to give trouble and it may be worth nothing then"
My advice for what its worth is that if and when you get to the stage where the purchase of a new car can be taken from savings and everything else is paid for thats well and good.
But to go into debt for a car which will be old and not worth a great deal when you are still paying for it isn't a good idea.
Not wishing to "knock your duck off" (an old Derbyshire saying)but you would be regretting it in a years time when its lost its sparkle and you would find yourself on a merry go round of "we really should be chopping it in now for a new one before it loses too much value". So many of us only realise this later in life after we have been seduced by those shiny brochures which make so many buys an absolute must...
Again not wanting to be a killjoy but stick to the Xantia which will probably run for the next five years at a cost proportionate to the interest payments on a new one.
I sound like Victor Meldrew
alvin
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alvin wrote:
>I think you know the answer yourself
And that's the crazy thing. Despite my own best knowledge, I'm still insanely keen to sign some documents down at the local franchise.
The savings thing is something I'd always said when I wasn't in a position to buy a new car - when we get some money, we should pay it into the bank each month as if we'd bought a new car and run the two cars we've got off that money, with the strong possibilty that we'd be ££££s up at the end of it. And take a nice holiday with the cash.
A good friend of mine traded in his ZX TD Aura for a new Xantia several years ago and lost literally thousands when he decided he couldn't continue the payments on the new car - he still says getting rid of the perfectly good Aura was one of his worst decisions ever.
alvin wrote:
>stick to the Xantia which will probably run for the next five years at a cost proportionate to the interest payments on a new one
Does anyone think this is a possibility - will the Xantia last that long? I have nightmares about piping failing (>£300) master pump thing going (>£400), head gasket failing (£?) and if I can find a bill for £200 for an innocent looking pipe, just how bad can the bills get? I'm lucky that the car doesn't use too much oil and loses no water, but I'm such an idiot when it comes to things under the bonnet I'm terrified of just getting into a bill, bill and more bill situation.
Maybe I need that psychologist bloke from Big Brother to analyse my motivations and explain to me my sudden compulsion to go shiny new!
And another thing - why are the young salesmen so keen to close the deal? So will you buy the car today? No Why not? ? What could I do to get you to sign now? Sell it for £20 If I could find a UK model with ABS now, would you buy? ... etc, etc
Don't they understand I'll buy when I'm ready and looking at the best deal? It somewhat sours the whole thing when they badger you...
Lee.
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Lee, why not keep your Xantia till a big repair bill does occur (could be tomorrow, could be 5 years away) and then simply trade it in without telling the dealer of the problem?
When I have traded a car in the past they simply seem to give it a quick look over and thats it (before offering you a ridiculously low part exchange figure of course!)
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Lee,
Not trying to put you off the Fiat but.....don\'t be frightened of the Xantia as the years/miles pile on.
You shouldn\'t need a re-pipe, those on my 1993 looked as if they would last another 5yrs plus.....then I Waxoyled them and another 10yrs would be reasonable.
The main hydraulic pump is £169 (plus vat) from Andyspares and not a difficult fit.
There is no reason for the head gasket to fail, keep the coolant changed two yearly to help this aspect.
Is yours an LX? If so no ABS to fail either.
Oh by the way I bet your light rattle is the anti-roll bar drop link/s. £17 each side (plus vat) from Andyspares and again an easy-ish fit, by a strange coincidence I\'m doing mine this weekend and they arived in a big parcel from Andyspares this morning.
David W
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alvin wrote:
I sound like Victor Meldrew
Just noticed that - don't worry, I think there's a few of us around here that do!
:-)
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I know its a grand more than your budget but have you looked at the Seat Ibiza. Im sure it would pass the window test and depreciation wouldnt be the problem it is with the Fiat. The latest super minis are streets ahead of the old ones (Saxo etc) and if you dont need the space as good as larger cars.
Plus you cant beat the smell of a new car!!!
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Dodge,
>>Plus you cant beat the smell of a new car!!!
Isn't that just the solvents leaching out from the new plastics waiting to do untold damage to the human body? In fact perhaps they put some sort of addictive drug into the car so that you just have to return to the dealer network in three years time for more machine coffee and another three years on finance for the next model.
;-)
There's a parp in there somewhere.
David W
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In fact perhaps they put some sort of addictive drug into the car so that you just have to return to the dealer network in three years time for more machine coffee and another three years on finance for the next model.
Yeah, they start you of on Ford Ka every few years, give you more and more of it until you experiment and get a Vecra habit. Before you know it you need a new Bentley 3 times a week...
It's not for nothing they call them dealers.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Well, we did try the new version of the Ibiza, but it's trying so very hard to be an Alfa that it looses its own character. Not helped by my brother in law now driving a genuine new Alfa!They're now fitting aircon as standard but ABS is extra. I'd have it the other way round myself.
Besides, the Skoda Fabia is far and away the best of the Ibiza/Polo/Fabia clones having tested all three, although the Ibiza feels the "grooviest" of them.
But going back to someones earlier message (sorry, can't remember who), we're off tomorrow to test drive a new MINI. Spent last weekend with a friend who drives one and it's excellent. I've not been as excitied about any car I've been in since the Avantime, and before then.... well I can't recall. Just trying to pin down that extensive options list.
Lee.
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Re Punto;
to have more info, checkout J D Power survey, on
www.whatcar.com/
- under News.
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I had a little drive of a new mini a couple of nights ago.
Very nice car, nice interior, but one huge schoolboy-error with the positioning of the rev counter - I couldn't see it at all because of the steering wheel, even if I moved the wheel up and down its view was always blocked.
Perhaps the Mini is designed for 'mini' people? I'm just over 6'.
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Interesting read on it - I'm over 6' and a bit podgy but find the MINI easy enough to fit in - no hope for anyone behind me if I've got the seat back though.
I like the rev counter where it is, but find myself forgetting to look at the speedo when bobbing around. Maybe you're in a blind height for the rev counter - anyone >6' sees over the steering wheel, <6' through it!
Over the weekend I've taken out both the One and the Cooper with 15" (std fit) alloys, and neither are as sorted as the Cooper I drove with Dynamic Stability, Sports Suspension PLUS and 17", although the std Cooper was still more fun than the One. The price you pay for 'on rails' handling in the souped up car is tooth-filling loosening ride, I think the cooper is a good comprimise between ride and grip.
So I'm now trying to find a MINI dealer who'll give me a deal on one.
Lee.
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Try www.fow.co.uk for some good delivery mileage and nearly new deals; my nan got a new Clio for around £1500 off list when the model was brand new.
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Trade sales have black or silver five door 1.2 Puntos in stock with ABS for £6,999.
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Forget the French cars and treat your self to a reliable car, during the 12 years i had a Toyota carina followed by two Nissan primeras i never had to so much as change a light bulb, i kid you not.
In the two years plus with the A4 i've had to have a headlight bulb and window switch replaced, still pretty good, but anything japanese i would recommend to you, try the Toyota Yaris, the supersites have them around £7000 for a 1.1GS
ps thers nothing to beat the smell of a new car but i would never borrow to buy one.
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