Hello,
I was wondering if you could help me out with a problem I am having with my Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 110SE 2003 53REG
It has now 90k on the clock it has 63k on the clock when I purchaes this 18 months ago.
I have serviced it regularly at a local garage not wanting to Pay main dealer costs and I have had the timing belt changed.
The cut out problem was present before I had the timing belt changed so it is not related in my opnion.
My car seems to intermittently cut out and I do not undetsand why, It can happen once a week or maybe even once a month, more worryingly it has been happening about 2 to 3 times a week. Not necesarily from cold, i could be ten mins into my drive or I could have just come back of the motorway after a 20 mile journey. The tempreature and oil gauges idle as they normally do in the centre.
I have had it checked at local garages and they could not find anything on thier diagnostic and today it has been with Peugeot main dealer garage all day and again they cannot find anything on thier diagnostic system either. I took it into peugeot today as yesterday for the first tim ever when i tried to start it it would fire up and then immediately cut out, on the 4th attempt it fired up but there was no power in it when pressing the accelaration as if the engine is on but no power. I then turned the ignition off and restarted and it worked. It did this yesterday on 3 seperate ocasions after i had parked up and gone back to the car to restart her up.
It has once previously cut out on the motorway whilst I was doing 70 mph, but I managed to restart it whilst driving.
Once the car has cut out it does re-start immediately
Im really at a dead end with this problem and could really do with your help please.
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I wonder if you may be struggling with two interacting faults here; I'm surprised there are no codes. Does the engine-fault warning light ever come on, or messages come up on the display??
If it cuts at 70 without leaving codes [these are two very self-aware systems] then the first thing that comes to mind is the "smart" fusebox. ECUs without power can't store codes.
Has it been mentioned which make of fuelling is fitted; Bosch or Siemens? The Bosch one has an in-tank pump - that could have a significant bearing on these faults.
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Hi and thanks for your reply
The Engine fault warning light has never come on and nor has any message ever appeared on the display
It only ever cut out once at 70 whilst I was breaking to slow down, the problem usually occurs when i am due to slow down, but can still be in gear doing 20/30/40 mph and it will cut out
I have no idea which make of fuelling is fitted, how would I find this out? could I ask PUG today whilst it is with them
Thanks
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Stalling whilst on the over-run would have different causes to cutting at steady speed. Stuck EGR valves, sucked-flat intake ducts etc.
None of those causes would be likely to affect starting from cold - that's why this is such an odd one.
I'd certainly hope that the garage know which system they're diagnosing.....
Back later.
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hi,
I collected my car from Pegeout this evening, the service dept was closed and my key was left with the sales team who couldnt tell me if any faults had been diagnosed.
They just handed the key over and didnt ask for any money either, so I think Ive just saved about £70
I am taking to my local mechanic in the morning.
sorry i do not know what an EGR valve is?
I also dont know what sucked-flat intake ducts are?
If any of these are he problems how do I fix?
Thanks
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took it in to my local mechanic this morning
the problem did not occur today
He could not figure it out.
Anyone any ideas?
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Ideas? Hundreds of 'em - just no info to start eliminating any.
The first step is to identify the system - there are significant differences in the way the two alternative systems go about controlling the fuelling.
Then the question must be addressed of why it's not storing codes? Power feed and earthing issues must be investigated by someone who understands these horrendously complex systems - and they are few and far between.
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there is an auto electrician shop outside my workplace i could take it there,
I saw a chunk of metal block attached to the front of the engine next to the timing belt that has a sticker on it with the BOSCH logo. Could that mean it has a Bosch fuel system? I will look for some more clues.
Car has been running fine yesterday, going out now so will report later if there have been any further probs
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First of all HELLO to everyone as this is my first post. I have a '99 406 hdi 110bhp which has developed a problem which shares some of yours. Firstly there is a loud cracking noise from the engine not that different to that of a petrol engine "pinking". This noise is accompanied by the feeling of the car jerking as if there is no power for that second or two. Sometimes the cracking noise causes a puff of smoke from the exhaust. This is an intermittent fault and would happen a couple of times a week then nothing for a few weeks then back again. When this happens the car sometimes stalls as you are slowing down at a junction. There are no fault codes stored and the car has a FSH although high miles. Head gasket was done back in Sept '07 and head was pressure tested and skimmed.
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Dar
A faulty injector is your prime suspect. Has it always been run on good fuel?
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Yes. Always run it on diesel from BP & throw in fuel additive every couple of weeks.
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Dar
Having the individual injector leak-off rate measured may show-up a failing one. A quick and cheap test.
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Hello Dar and welcome.
The cut out problem you have does share similarities to mine but my engine does NOT make a noise when starting her up. This weekend and this morning the car has ran perfectly.
I have had the car for 18 month over this time I have noticed that the Rev Needle which used to Idle at 1 now Idles just below 1 Rev. This maybe something to do with me also finding the car a little flat and sluggish sometimes.
I have always used Shell Extra diesel and then recently to get the Ferrari Cars I used the Shell V Power Fuel and funny enough thats when the problem started again, maybe change in fuel, but the V power is more expensive and better apparently? Now Ive reverted to the normal Shell Extra fuel and sometimes use the Morrisons garage accross from where I live.
Although I have used fuel additives in the past My Mechanic tells me REDEX is rubbish and I should try FORTE, you can buy it for about £10 delivered on Ebay and the guy I got it from also gives a Free Forte engine Flush with it too which can sell for £10 alone.
I have read reviews on Forte apparently it is really really good and the description advertised does say that it cleans EGR Valves. Now Screwloose thats something you referred to so it must be worth a go? I ordered mine last night and it should arrive this week. Do you think the engine flush is worth using at the next service? they say sometimes that can cause unnecessary problems, especially with old engines as it clears all the sludges from the nooks & crannies in the engine and then could cause leaks? My engine isnt that Old though, is has 90k on a 53 plate.
The 110 bhp I have is group 14 insurance but believe me the car is not sporty & quick, well it is a family saloon.
I have the fully loaded version and I love all the extras but this niggling problem is not safe and I sometimes feel like selling the car..
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Thanks for the info m8ty. Will make a few calls and see if i can borrow the kit to do a fuel leak off test. Thanks again :)
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Can anybody tell me if i have to replace all 4 injectors at once ?? My pug has Bosch injectors fitted and have been told in the past that the injectors are coded to each other and should be replaced as a set even if getting second hand ones i need to ensure that all 4 are from the same vehicle.
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Dar
At £1500 a set, I'd just do what's necessary.... [Re-con ones aren't worth the effort of changing them.]
The injectors are graded - usually A to D; it's best if you can match the same letter as the replaced one.
The ECU has the ability to make a 5% adjustment to even-out the power from each cylinder; those adjustments can be monitored in live-data and might help decide how many injectors to change - if any are needed.
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What figures should i be looking for in the live data ?? From what i remember the injector adjustment figures were Inj1=1, Inj2=0, Inj3=-2 & Inj4=-1. Are these the figures i should be looking at ????
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Dar
Yes those were the ones; they should all add up to zero. +/- 1% variation is OK; +/- 3% is not.
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All add up to zero. Do you mean that all 4 added together add up to zero ? If that's the case my figures are fine. Or does it mean that No3 injector has a problem. Sorry for being a pain in the butt but could you explain it to me in a bit more detail :(
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The ideal situation is 4 zeros - perfect smooth running, no correction needed. They're usually +half a percent; -half a percent etc. - the total should balance.
If any cylinder needs +3% or more; [5% is the limit] then that wants investigating.
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I fancy doing one of these tests to my car? how do i go about it? whats the tes called? Fuel leak of test?
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raf man
You'll need a set of leak-off measuring bottles and the relevant connectors and tubing.
If you are not familiar with the safety requirements of working on high-pressure diesel systems; then your best move is to get a Haynes manual and follow their advice to the letter.
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just wanted to add few other odd things. when in standing traffic the car some or most times (did this morning) judders at low revs.
When first starting up there is a click sound from the engine as ive turned the key.
I think it vibrates like a sharp judder a little when starting up or turning ignition off
not sure if these symptons provide any more clues?
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I'd ask your garage to check for imminent Dual-Mass Flywheel failure.
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is this something that would appear on a diagnostic test?
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just nipped accross the road to my local garage, they say this is something thata clutch place has to do as its something to do with the gear box?? and a fly wheel is about £700
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/07/2008 at 19:40
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"Something a clutch place has to do?" Are they over-worked or something?
A DMF takes the place of a solid flywheel and, unlike those, comes apart with monotonous regularity. [And yes; £1000+ is a common price to change them, as a clutch is always done at the same time.]
Not something that's normally fuel-fault related - except that the crank position sensor might be getting clogged with metal debris. That could - possibly - be your starting fault ...
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1999 Peugeot 406 Coupe V6 Intermittent engine shut-down
Whilst driving, the engine warning light would suddenly come on and the engine would shut down immediately, with the resultant loss of power steering and power brakes. Not very good when you?re in the outside lane on the motorway doing 100 kph? This has happened four times. After the fourth time the engine would not restart after about 15 minutes as has happened previously and I had to get the car towed home.
I couldn?t restart the car again after a week, so I had the car towed to a Peugeot dealer?s service centre. Of course the car started OK when they tried it? They claimed they couldn?t get the car to repeat its antics (naturally). I picked up the car and attempted to drive it home, with much trepidation.
The same thing happened after travelling about 10kms. I had a friend following me, so after I had managed to get the car to the side of the motorway, I locked the car and got him to take me back to the dealer. They had the car towed back to their service centre. Now that the car wouldn?t start for them, they were able to determine that a fuel injection relay had failed. Evidently, these relays are not recorded in the Engine Management System when they fail. I suppose this is because a relay is either off or on, and the Engine Management System can?t tell whether it should be on when it?s off, if you get my gist.
If you should have this happen to you, it is absolutely imperative that you get the car taken to a Peugeot service centre so that they are able to determine which component has failed or is causing the problem. As the service advisor said to me, they don?t want to be going in and replacing a $1,000 fuel pump when it?s a $300 relay that?s causing me grief. Needless to say, this can be a bit difficult if this happens during the weekend as it usually did with me?
Up until this had happened, the car had been performing faultlessly and had been a joy to drive. After this little series of events, I have lost confidence in the car. To have the car?s engine completely shut down when you?re travelling at 100kph is extremely scary and it was more by good fortune that the traffic on the motorway at the time was not too heavy that I was able to get this car safely to the side verge with no power. I consider this to be a very bad design fault and as a result will not consider getting a Peugeot again.
Hope this helps with your problem...
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