The Sun is reporting today:
"JELLYFISH blobs which grow in greener petrol and diesel could wreck car engines, a motoring expert warned yesterday.
The alert follows the move towards bio-fuels. Every gallon sold on Britain?s forecourts since April 1 contains 2.5 per cent of the crop and vegetable-based additive.
But unless garages spend £1,000 a time flushing out their tanks regularly, bacteria rapidly multiplies in the mixture.
It festers to form gelatinous lumps in fuel tanks which clog filters and destroy pipes and seals.
Mechanics said affected cars will lose power before the warning light comes on. The problem has to be fixed quickly before damage worsens.
Gas industry expert John Moore said: ?It poses a serious threat. Unless tanks are thoroughly cleansed you will find strange jellyfish-like objects in the fuel.?
Is there any truth in this?
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Given you preserve food in oil to stop it from breeding bacteria...
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Given that bacteria are some of the most tenacious, opportunistic (in terms of their ability to evolve into new phenotypes with new 'abilities') & 'intelligent' life forms yet discovered, I would find it extraordinairy if they didn't or hadn't. Bacteria are found in cracks in the earth's crust at the bottom of the ocean feeding on sulphurous & cyanic gases & other compounds - so diesel/petrol & bio-fuel admixtures in pleasant underground tanks must feel like a picnic on a sunny day would do to us!
My only question is whether these clever little blighters can be persuaded to make the fuel in the first place, then eat their way through any nasty engine/engine oil deposits - it would certainly lessen the frequency between services!
Edited by woodbines on 06/05/2008 at 13:38
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bacteria and fungus ?infections? are indeed possible in diesel fuel and can cause clogged fuel filters and fuel injection nozzles.
It is a well-known problem in the boating community, where diesel engined boats can be left unused for extended periods - my uncle always used to keep his diesel tank brimmed so there was as little air as possible - and long before 2.5% biodiesel came along.
Interesting if it now is becoming a problem in fuel station storage tanks.
Edited by Marlot on 06/05/2008 at 13:42
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I thought only diesel had a bio-fuel element?
Anyway, it doesn't look as though it will be round for long because it doesn't make sense to use crops for fuel rather than to feed the starving.
That may sound political but it's motoring. Relative importance of cars to people.
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I recently had this 'diesel bug' issue in my 1998 Passat TDI, which became apparent on extended periods of high fuel flow such as ascending a long, steep hill on the A68 which I regularly find myself on. Upon reaching the top and turning off onto a single-track road the engine would cut out.
I quickly found a green algae-like stuff in the fuel filter. Seems this was reducing the fuel flow. A biocide treatment from a marine chandler sorted it out. Apparently it likes to grow when moisture is present, either from water in diesel or (more likely to occur) condensation caused by moisture present in the air contained in a rarely-full fuel tank.
I don't know whether the bio-content 'issue' is down to the bio element of the fuel having potentially more moisture content???
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I have had this in tins of stored diesel, it looked like mucous/snot swirling around in the diesel. This diesel had no biodiesel in it, it was about 17 years ago! It seems as though there is currently an anti-biofuel campaign reigning - making regular press releases of a mixture of baloney and truth.
Edited by Hamsafar on 06/05/2008 at 14:23
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Now to find an engine which runs on algae....
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Now to find an engine which runs on algae....
Yup. And collect the methane they give off to run the engine on through the dual fuel system.
Alternatively, isn't there an additive to suppress these infections that wouldn't harm engines or injection systems? A powerful cleaning agent perhaps?
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www.diesel-fuels.com/
www.kansaswindpower.net/fuel_treatment.htm
A new opportunity for snake oil salesmen? ( a magnetic personality required? ;) )
pmh
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But all diesel on sale contains biocides, so what's new? Is this just a problem for home brewers and incompetent commercial producers?
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Anyone twitching for the `Willers` ;)
( cue the sound of little plastic caps being unscrewed followed by that soothing `glugging`)
Only joking, don`t take offence ;)
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Something about the Brazilian economy in the backwoods the other night on the box, clip of blokes pouring cooking oil into the tank of a pickup with voiceover saying fuel supplies are so poor that people are 'forced to run their vehicles on cooking oil'.
I suppose diesel must be cheaper in Brazil than it is here, perhaps cheaper than cooking oil, but it made me smile after all the discussion here over the months of using bulk cooking oil as a cheaper alternative to diesel...
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When I worked in the south of Brazil in the late eighties / early nineties my car ran on sugar cane alcohol. Big old yank V8. Smelled like boiled sweets. I was working for a UK company at the time and until they got used to it, the head office accounts dept. used to query why I was claiming for 50 litres of alcohol a couple of times a week !
;-))) hic.
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Aircraft already suffer from this, or at least those that sit in a hangar for several months at a time.
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Aircraft already suffer from this or at least those that sit in a hangar for several months at a time.
hey red baron you need to get your props twirling a bit more often , handley page is it?
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Others and myself raised this as an issue months ago on this site.
Garages are able to buy boicides to treat their tanks and Fuel companies could suffer damage or blockages to their delivery systems if they did not add biocides.
One of the organisms responsible is aerobic so would only form on fuel air interface.
Biomass based fuels would contain higher levels of Carbohydrates in the form of organic fatty acids (for Diesel substitute), although a high percentage of these would be removed in the refining/purification (esterification) process, but enough would remain, I suspect, to increase microbiological activity.
For Petrol, I guess ethanol may less susceptible, only becuase I have never seen jellyblobs in my scotch ! But someone else may know about this.
The biggest risk remains in my opinion with the home user who just sticks filtered chip oil in their tank then leaves their vehicle outside(in the summer) for weeks / days before driving it. Commercial operations are probably aware of this and also have some liability to their customers.
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Aircraft already suffer from this, or at least those that sit in a hangar for several months at a time.
That's one reason they flush out the tanks if/when they come out of storage.
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Marine fuel tanks are prone to fouling by microbiological growth. The bacteria grow on an interface between the fuel and included water droplets (ship fuel tanks are often "displaced type" where fuel is pushed out of the tank by pushing water in). The fouling can have some dire consequences as the bacteria excrete some fairly destructive compounds to ferrous components (sulphites and sulphuric acid), there can also be detrimental effects on plastics and rubber.
This is using standard marine gas oil (diesel fuel), you don't need biofuels for this to occur, although the higher concentrations of fatty acids in biofuels may exacerbate it.
Other than the corrosive qualities of the bacteria, it produces a slime/sludge which readily clogs filters. The quick fix is a biocide treatment and several filter changes, the ideal would be to empty, clean and sterilise the tanks and associated transfer system. Fortunately a car's fuel system should be much easier to treat. Blocked filters and a brown slime on the filter surfaces is probably the best indication, and a decent chandler will have the necessary treatment.
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