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1.9 tdI Legal advice re: buying used - timing belt - BobbyG
Hi, have finally found a Beetle for my wife, a diesel one that has 40k miles and is 4 1/2 years old.

Now this is being bought from a used car dealer. I have done all the usual checks including speaking to previous owner etc so happy all that side is covered.

However, the car has not had its timing belt changed. as some of you may remember this was the subject to a long thread, prompted by HJ himself as VAG had changed the frequency to 60k / 4 years for changes.

I got a quote from an indie for £300 but dealer is not prepared to pay for this or have it done. Fair enough, I can get it done. However, what is the legal side of this? I have told the dealer that the timing belt has not been done like it should have and he is prepared to still sell me this (yes I know I also am prepared to buy it).

I believe there is legal rulings that if a car develops a fault within, is it 6 months, then it is perceived to have been there at time of sale and so onus on seller to fix? Car comes with a 3 month warranty which, I assume would have a caveat that car must have been seviced to manufacturer guidelines.

Two points, has anyone got a direct link to a site that states categorically that the above is now the frequency for changes. Secondly what are the legalities surrounding this situation?

I am trying to use it as a bit of leverage although, being honest, the price its advertised at just now is a price I am willing to pay. Thoughts?

Edited by Pugugly on 20/04/2008 at 21:56

Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - Pugugly
Which engine has it got ? (I have to confess when I first read this you were referring to a boxer engine !)
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - bhoy wonder
I am sure the belt should be changed every 40k or 4 years what ever comes first. So it is over due. If you like the car then buy it but get the belt changed as soon as possible, As I am sure you would rather pay £300 for a new cambelt now or you may have to pay £2000 plus for a new engine. Also when they change the can cambelt get them to change the water pump as well. Why not try and get the dealer to knock something off the price and get the belt done elsewhere.
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - BobbyG
Sorry, its the 1.9tdi Diesel engine 2003 model.

I am trying to get dealer to knock money off it but I know for a fact the car is now £1500 less than what it was first advertised for, and not a kick in the teeth off what the previous owner got in trade in.

As said, more than willing to buy it, take it straight to an indie (anyone know of any indie VAG garages in Glasgow / Lanarkshire area?). That would also give me assurance if there was anything else untoward then it might be picked up there as well.

Yes, the price one indie quoted was for belt and pump at £250 + vat. Also, I beleieve its important to see if they change the plastic impellors for metal ones (whatever they are!).

If I could find proof in black and white that the belt and pump should have been changed then it might give me more bargaining power with the dealer? From previous threads on the subject it would appear that it should be done 60k or 4 yrs but can't find a release from VAG anywhere stating that. (My Fabia recently had its 40k service and dealer advised me belt to be done at 4 years or 60k miles as well)
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - Pugugly
Bobby,

I'll check the service book on the Roomie for you once Foyle's War has finished. It is an 07
1,9 PDI engine. Happy to scan it and e-mail it to you.
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - BobbyG
Cheers PU for that, this one has the engine code ATD (I think) and for some reason in the Beetle they were 100 rather than 105bhp, I have never been able to find out why the difference!

From what I can read this frequency is not mentioned in any manuals, it was a change that VW did and allegedly issued a retrospective notice to that effect. But I can't find the blinking thing anywhere!
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - Hamsafar
There's a VW Dealer doing them for £175 on ebay, if you're prepared to travel.
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - Pugugly
120,000KM change cam belt in the Skoda's Service Book (2006 Edition)
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - Dyaneman
Hmm, if the VAG maintainence guide states 60000 miles (which I'm sure it does) then the dealer is certain under no legal (or indeed moral) obligation to change it 20000 miles early.

Certainly if it were my car I'd change it earlier than 60000, but I certainly wouldn't expect a seller to do so without charge.

Jonathan.
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - davidh
To be honest, I'd get a dealer to do the cambelt rather than an independant.

This is because every now and then things do go wrong with cambelt changes - the cambelt cover not replaced properly leading to the belt chafing, duff belt, belt tensioner dodgey etc etc.

With a main dealer you have 12 months warranty on the work including consequential damage should valves hit pistons.

Arguing the toss with an independant over 2 grands worth of bust engine is a world of pain.

I workwith a chap whos Vectra broke its belt within 12 months and the dealer rebuilt his engine FOC.
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - BobbyG
David, I hear what you are saying but I have now found 3 possible indies who are all VAG specialists and who seem to get really good feedback on some of the forums I have looked into, inc 2 in the Clydebank area of Glasgow.

Will phone a dealer though to see how the price compares.
Legal advice re Buying Used - Timing Belt - BobbyG
Hamsafar, as far as I can see thats just for the parts! And would definitely want someone local to do it in case of comeback.
1.9 tdI Legal advice re: buying used - timing belt - Avant
Out of interest, Bobby, why does SWMBO want to change from a Fabia vRS to a Beetle?
1.9 tdI Legal advice re: buying used - timing belt - bhoy wonder
If you stay near Clydebank I would use www.a4audi.co.uk. I have used them for servicing my car and they are excellent at what they do. I have not had my cambelt done by them as yet but I will be when it is due to be done.
1.9 tdI Legal advice re: buying used - timing belt - BobbyG
Avant, much to my dismay she has wanted a Beetle all her life and when she went to college to do Nursing we sort of said that when she graduates and gets a job then that can be her reward!

The reality is I very rarely drive the Fabia now and she is using it to cimmute to work and she might as well do it in a car she wants and "live the dream" so to speak.

Interestingly we went for a test drive on sat and she loved it. She confided to me afterwards that she had never actually sat in a Beetle, never mind drive it, and she was scared in case she was going to hate it and her last 30 odd years of dreams were in vain!

But alas she loved it! :(
1.9 tdI Legal advice re: buying used - timing belt - PoloGirl
> why does SWMBO want to change from a Fabia vRS to a Beetle?

My thoughts exactly... I can give the vRS a good home!

I had that model of Beetle as a courtesy car for a few days a while back (think it was a 53, which shows how long ago - I still had Polo) and, also being someone who'd wanted a Beetle forever, it cured me of that dream.

Did she give it a proper test drive? She's going to find it really sluggish after the vRS. And they are a nightmare to park because of the rounded corners.

But hey, if she's always wanted one, go for it. Just don't put a stupid flower in the dashboard! :)
1.9 tdI Legal advice re: buying used - timing belt - BobbyG
PG, was going to email you and offer you it!!!

As part of the test drive I insisted she go into Tesco car park and park it between cars as well as, separately, parking it within lines without any cars nearby. She managed it fine albeit maybe left the nose sticking out further than she should have.

Re the speed, she is not really a "driver" as such and although to you and me it was a Fabia vrS, to her it was a car to get her to work and back. In fact one of her criticisms of the car was that it made her drive too fast!

I will be sad to see the Fabia go but I very rarely drive it now and have given up trying to keep the seats clean in it! I had my fun with the Fabia whilst I was using it for a year and a half but, without sounding too cheesy, if the Beetle gives her as much fun and enjoyment then it will be worth it.

My goodness , did I just say that - don't tell her!

Oh and it already has a stupid flower in the dashboard!

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 21/04/2008 at 20:24

1.9 tdI Legal advice re: buying used - timing belt - PoloGirl
>PG, was going to email you and offer you it!!!

I'll swap - you take my Golf until 2010, and I'll have the Fabia, after you change the seats for black leather. :) Am gutted that the new Fabia is so ugly and I've missed my chance to have one of the old style ones.

>Oh and it already has a stupid flower in the dashboard!
In that case you need to go the whole hog and put the flowers up the side too. I saw one today in cream with rainbows up the side. Looked fab!

1.9 tdI Legal advice re: buying used - timing belt - BobbyG
Flowers up the side..... let me think about that one...... eh, naw!

There again. I am now in a different dilemma - when she gets this do I do as I have always done and take control of all things car, washing, polishing etc or do I give her the keys and say your responsibility!!

Might give it the full Autoglym treatment inc clay bar, alloys etc and then leave it in her safe, capable hands! Definitely leaving the cleaning of the inside of the windscreen to her though!
1.9 tdI Legal advice re: buying used - timing belt - b308
Going back to the cambelt change - I had a 1.9TDi 100bhp and it is indeed 60k/4 years, whichever is sooner!