Auto Express Driver Power verdict 2008.
Fiat allegedly, second from bottom overall and worst on "Helpfulness and attitude"
I just can`t believe that, given the new 500, it importance to the company and the new management seemingly having gone through the dealer network.
Both of the Fiat garages I use are great, although I must admit its mainly parts dept as I do my own servicing.
Seemingly head in hands time at Fiat UK? But should it be? how much can results from the general public be trusted.
It seems, along with `normal` owners, there are a lot of young wallies for example, that run Gp`s, putting cooking oil in the JTD`s, chipping until the car vibrates and clutch slips and chipping Panda`s over the rated gearbox torque. The list of ineptness, failure to check oil, taking the car to the limiter all the time as though its a computer game goes on and on.
Then they complain if there is the very slightest imperfection of the paint, under the bumper for example and even complain about normality as they are often witless about cars in general.
Contrast this with the mature knowledge of your typical Skoda owner for example ( a very well deserved 2nd place.)
Can part of Fiats problems lie with the part of its customer base that allegedly in years gone by would have driven a modified (ruined) Nova with a baseball cap on back to front?
Regards ;)
Edited by oilrag on 17/04/2008 at 08:50
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I think you've hit on something there with the comments about wallies.
My own Fiat dealer, which has remained excellent throughout the 13 or so years my family has dealt with them, now places a sticker (on their own initiative) on the front of the blue document wallet for every car they sell, which says in big letters (some of them red) "FAILURE TO HAVE YOUR CAR SERVICED IN ACCORDANCE WITH MANUFACTURER SPECIFICATIONS WILL INVALIDATE YOUR CAR'S WARRANTY".
That tells me all I need to know about the attitude of some of their customers!
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My impression is that there is big push to improve profitability at Fiat, if they are loosing customers due to bad dealers, I think they will be looking at each dealer's performance much more intently than they did in the past.
The damage to the reputation has already been done with bad customer survey results.
OK they may get a few takers for the new designs of Fiats, but if not backed up by good dealer support they'll loose these people in a few years time.
There are good and bad dealers for all makes, but dealers can get very demoralised if they are always fixing cars with bad reliability issues. Anyone doing what you mention on a newish fiat will be invalidating the warranty. The limiter is there to prevent damage, and most engines are tested to run all day long at or near the rev limit.
Parts people I've met tend to be cheerful and helpful as they rarely deal with unhappy customers.
Most Fiat drivers I have met tend to be Women (who like the styling) or families trying to reduce motoring costs (they are cheap to run).
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The new Bavo with a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty?
So the tv advert said.
Looks like my long love affair with Hyundai is over, no more expensive korean parts lists for me - when the Getz dies it will be a bravo.
Whats the cheapest you can pick up a Bravo for?
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Since the awful company that used to run a Fiat dealership in Sunderland gave up, I've used Benfield in Newcastle and have found them to be very fair, with regard to warranty claims and servicing costs.
I'm lucky, as I drive a Panda which is very sturdy and reliable, as does my daughter.
I think maybe Fiat dealers are worst on publicising the low running costs and reliability of the Polish built cars that should be their bread and butter. Maybe Fiat themselves should help a bit as well.
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The OP seems to imply that Fiat owners are the problem, rather than the company. Blaming customers is the road to bankruptcy. Most of the Fiats I see seem to be driven by young ladies or old folk. Hardly the type of driver to cane a car to death.
A relative of mine had a Fiat and not only was it extremely unreliable but the dealer was completely disinterested in the car. Not surprised at all that they score badly. Running costs are not low once you take into account the number and cost of repairs needed. On one occasion it need a new washer pump and after two weeks the dealer had still not managed to get hold of one. In the end I got her one by mail order from a parts supplier in Northampton.
I really wish that Fiat could get their act togther. The new Brava looks great on paper - great styling, decent performance and economy, but I just wouldnt be brave enough to buy one.
I had a look on Fiat Forum regarding the Panda and its hardly a haven of happy owners. Seem to be a number of people had problems with them. The 500 is a bit too new to draw any conclusions from at the moment.
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Well that brought a smile to my face. Oilrag, I if also did my own servicing I'm sure I'd also my own FIAT dealer great. So they're able to be friendly (and presumably efficient) as they supply you with parts.....I don't think this level of interaction is really enough to start drawing conclusions (IMHO)
But it's a good reminder that who we a buy a car from is as important as what the car is. Most of us on this forum would probably run a mile from people we think of as Chavs (no, don't tell me, you're all chavs ??) but they possibly (err maybe !!) look after cars well (in terms of servicing) even if they do it with their mates. Just an idea...What do you think ??
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I think I sometimes take a certain stance just to develop a discussion ;)
regards
Edited by oilrag on 17/04/2008 at 19:02
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Yes, I agree and on a forum it needs people to do that. In this case it hit a sore point with me after some pretty bad experiences, and frustration at having to stick with a Punto (according to that auto express survey, no. 100 out of 100!!) for financial reasons.......temporarily !!
The Panda does well in that survey so it's a mixed picture for FIAT.
I've a bunch of mate at work who buy their cars from a FIAT dealer (in France) because they all trust the garage. Faults etc..don't worry them because of this. One of them bought a Grande Punto second hand a few weeks ago, had something wrong with it (electrical) and fixed straight away. Probably had a coffee and a chat watching it being fixed.
The 'profiling' bit is interesting....Know any links to info on who drives what cars ???
BMW, KIA picanto drivers, etc...would be interesting
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Just by way of a bit of vaguely related FIAT based trivia. We panic bought a Mk 1 Panda as a stopgap replacement for my wife's Astra which had been stolen from a railway station. As we lived in a very rural location at the time with no available public transport it was necessary to get her mobile as quickly and cheaply as possible while the ins co sorted out their side. Our policy did not cover the provision of a hire car so we decided just to buy the cheapest car we could find with a current MOT. We found the Panda at a car supermarket in the bargain basement section as it was already entering its twilight years. The intention was to keep it for a few weeks until we had the ins money for the Astra and trade it in against whatever SWMBO wanted. Well, four years and 80k mls later we did eventually get round to selling it because rust had started to form the majority of the bodywork. The reliability of that little car was otherwise exemplary and it went on to form the holiday transport for a couple of NZ students who twice took it round Europe. Great wee car, let down only by rust. Probably the most cost effective 80k miles we shall ever see.
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"BMW, KIA picanto drivers, etc...would be interesting"
It would if you could separate `personality ` from the cars and thereby avoid a fully blown `snob, gloat and pricking the ego` contest developing ;);)
Edited by oilrag on 17/04/2008 at 19:40
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I'm pretty sure that manufacturers know what 'personalities' buy their cars ? Add campaigns target certain types....
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Yes, Sorry John, I was referring to exploring it on the forum.
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>>"BMW, KIA picanto drivers, etc...would be interesting"
SWMBO has just sold her 1.1 Picanto and picked up a 500, 1.2 Lounge. To say she's absolutely delighted would be grossly understating it! Today I've put 250 miles on it (to aid the running in process) and it has seriously impressed me!
FWIW we bought the Picanto ex demo, 32 months ago and sold it for £2,250 less than we paid for it which for new car ownership isn't too bad. Thirsty for a small car and two quite expensive services at a distinctly average multi franchise dealership. 100% reliable and utterly competent.
SWMBO doesn't ever want to part with the 500 and the last car she felt the same about was a 2CV Dolly which 24 years ago she kept for 7 years but it finally succumbed to ferrous oxide. Here's hoping ...
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Since the awful company that used to run a Fiat dealership in Sunderland gave up I've used Benfield in Newcastle and have found them to be very fair with regard to warranty claims and servicing costs.
Interestingly I was at the opposite end of that Newcastle showroom the other day sitting in a new Alfa Spider when I was told by the salesman to:- "stop ragging on the gearbox please, they're very fragile." Eh? with comments from your dealers like that who needs motoring journos to slag your product off?
Edited by Blue {P} on 17/04/2008 at 23:49
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Blue, when I went to the new sales end of that dealership to look at the 500 I detected a high degree of snottiness. I can well believe your experience.
However, service dept I cannot fault, especially the lasses on reception who know more about cars than many fellas.
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Interesting to see that Alfa-Romeo dealers won a gong in the same awards for 'most improved', and presumably they are in the same head office? If they can do the trick at Alfa, there is no excuse for not doing the same at Fiat.
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"Interesting to see that Alfa-Romeo dealers won a gong in the same awards for 'most improved'"
On a score system of 1-10 with one being worst if you score 1 one year then 2 the next that's a 100% improvement, but 2 is still rubbish!
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I have to agree with Oilrag`s point about GPs being abused by the young drivers who seem to have more money than sense. It`s probably down to the price range the GP falls into.Some of them probably bought them as their first car.The Fiat Forum is full of silly questions about how to modify their cars-even though all GPs are still under warranty. The site`s saving grace is the excellent moderator/contributor who seems to be a highly qualified mech.
As far as main Fiat agents are concerned,I have to repeat my opinion that they have improved greatly in recent months. I think Fiat UK are watching them closely with a view to weeding out the ones that fail to come up to scratch
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Interesting to note that the Punto that SWMBO was in love with cost an arm and a leg in keeping on the road. Items fell apart after two years from new. Now she has a Mazda 2 that doesn't miss a beat and has been 100% reliable: she hates it and wants another Fiat. I give up!
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