I have a car here in a garage in Estonia that is on SORN with expired MOT. I have insurance.
I need to get the car back to UK. I understand I can drive an untaxed vehicle to a pre-arranged MOT test. Can I therefore make an appointment in writing with my usual MOT tester (say in Basingstoke) for the day of arrival from the Dover ferry and simply drive 1hr45 to the MOT station?
And then I can take the MOT, insurance cert, V5 and completed V10 ?Vehicle licence application? to my local tax disc issuing Post office to get a tax disc. Does the car automatically become un-SORN'ed at this point?
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Without valid MOT and TAX then is it legal to drive it across Europe? I'd check first. You might have insurance but it might not be valid. And you need to be sure to avoid problems when you get back to a UK port. Can you not sell it locally in Estonia and be done with it?
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And was it SORN that applied taking it overseas. Well I suppose it is off the UK roads.
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Exactly. SORN is only relevant to its use in the UK, and will only be relevant when it arrives on a UK road.
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So if MOT expired is the insurance valid? And without tax is the insurance valid. I'd not risk it. Just sell it?
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There might not be too much of a market here as RHD cars cannot be registered in Estonia. (Apparently this contravenes EU regs, but I'm not holding my breath for Estonia to conform to this).
Although maybe they'd want to do a LHD conversion on it Polish style.
I suppose I could get a local MOT done (it would easily pass). Need to check with my insurance co about this...
But my question is: is there a limit to how far away a pre-booked MOT can be?
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you do not need RFL ( road tax ) to drive in Europe . It is only applicable to British roads . So long as you are insured and have a valid MOT of sorts , then you are fine . Some countries have annual MOT like us , others are different .
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You should be OK driving it from Dover to a pre-arranged MOT test in Basingstoke as long as there are no obvious faults that would make it unroadworthy but why not have it done in Dover?
tinyurl.com/23frtj
It will also have to be legal in all the countries you pass through unless it's being trailered to Dover.
Kevin...
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If you were stopped you might be deemed to stretching a point, I think that the Crown may have a case that the distance you were travelling from Dover to Basingstoke might be trifle lengthy, plenty of MoT garages in Dover where you could test it and then tax it. ANPR at the port would ping you and the chances of being picked up by the Police pretty strong, in fact Special Branch or Ports Police would probably pull you, unless you were booked into a local garage, they would be empowered by to seize your car under devolved powers from DVLA. I wouldn't.
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Is it also not the case that to drive in any EU country; your car must be fully legal in one of them.
SORN here is irrelevant; to drive it again, you'll need to re-license and tax it in Estonia. If it's been out of the UK for more than six months; then you should have done that anyway.
If you bring it into the UK on a SORN; ANPR will slaughter you. The pile of penalty notices [plus five times the back tax] will arrive at your home before you do. Saying that you were, illegally, using it overseas won't help much.....
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Ignoring what requirements are needed in respect of a UK vehicle being driven elsewhere than UK then on arrival at Port of entry in UK then Schedule 2 of Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994- vehicles exempt from Excise Licence, can apply:
A vehicle is an exempt vehicle RFL) when it is being used solely for the purpose of?
(a) submitting it (by previous arrangement for a specified time on a specified date) for a compulsory test, or
(b) bringing it away from a compulsory test.
There is a similar exemption under Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations 1981 in respect of Test Certificate.
Under both there is NO requirement as to where the test has to be carried out i.e. nearest Garage. I know of no case law that also states this. In fact it appears in relation to classics etc journeys of considerable mileage have been undertaken to a specialist firm lawfully.
Providing the test has been pre-booked and recorded, there are no major defects, current Insurance in force, Driver licensed and the journey is direct to the Testing Station, i.e. not broken by a days shopping or holiday then from Port to Basingstoke complies with the law.
On an ANPR check re Excise, this is purely a Revenue offence and authorisation for prosecution comes from DVLA so they submit information about non compliance on a form. In between time, the poster gets MOT and takes out Excise. By time Plod form, reaches DVLA their records will show Licence taken out. All they are interested in is getting the cash in so NFA.
The only other point is that there exists an offence of failing to display an Excise Licence but if the test has been booked as above then vehicle is exempt so no offence.
No MOT does not invalidate Insurance.
dvd
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DVD,
Not sure whether Kent Police is signed up to the devolved powers from DVLA, this effectively means that seizure is a phone call away and the niceties of the authorisation for prosecution are left for another day. The days of the CLE2/6 have gone. I have to disagree with you there.
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Should have added the fact that when a vehicle licence is issued them this automatically removes SORN.
dvd
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Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone for your considered replies. Plenty of food for thought!
Screwloose, yes, the car has been out of UK for more than 6 months. Yes, I know I should have re-registered it here (like my other car which is LHD). But it is RHD so not possible and the blooming thing broke down with immobiliser/ battery issues before I could get it back to UK. I assure you that it hasn't been used after the 6 months were up and has been parked off-road in my garage for the long Estonian winter! Now the winter is coming to an end, next week I can get a transporter to access my driveway and get it off to the workshop.
As an aside, there is no RFL or car tax in Estonia. MOT is stamped onto the V5 equivalent. Insurance docs are as per UK but with free 12 months green card.
Probably look into getting MOT & RFL in Dover though!
Thanks again and very best regards to all.
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why dont you get it MOT'd in estonia ? im sure the mot test there isnt as comprehensive as ours in the uk ...... do they have MOT stations in estonia?
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The only dodgy bit is the travel from Estonia to Dover, as they may not use the English line of driving it to an MOT station. But IME the foreign police aren't greatly interested in UK MOT certificates, and even less so with UK road tax. Once on UK soil you're travelling to a prearranged MOT, so no problem there.
You can't MOT a UK reg car in another EU country as it has to be registered there forst, and this can't be done.
There is no 6 month rule for foreign reg cars in other EU countries, I don;t know why people keep going on about it.
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The Uk bit is easy. The pre-booked MOT can be anywhere you like. You might very reasonably want it MOTd at your own local garage, rather than an unknown in Dover.
But the European bit looks like a catch-22. Presumably with a UK-registered car you are legal in Europe if you are legal in the UK. But the driving-to-a-MOT exemption only applies in the UK, unless by some peculiar chance Estonia has a reciprocal arrangement to allow Estonian drivers in the UK to drive home for their MOTs.
Perhaps just stick a note saying "Tax in the post", in Estonian, and keep your fingers crossed.
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A mate of mine had this problem a few years back and it's a bit of a grey area. The conclusion was that as long as the car was insured (which it was, in the UK) and roadworthy then he was basically ok travelling through various continental european countries (in this case it was Germany and France).
Proving roadworthiness is obviously a bit tricky but, in Germany at least, you can actually get an MOT equivalent (TUEV) on a non-German registered car (in fact you need it as a precondition to be able to register a foreign car here). I think it's only likely to be an issue if you have an accident and the insurance try and wriggle out of a claim on the basis that an assessor determines that something was wrong with the car that contributed to an accident.
If you get stopped by the police I don't think they'll do anything more detailed than check the insurance green card, assuming the car isn't a complete wreck.
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I doubt anyone will bother you till you land on UK soil (assuming you don't do anything stupid). I was stopped for a random check over Easter, when they realised I was English they couldn't wave me on quick enough. They had no interest whatsoever, other than that I didn't reek of vodka.
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"reek of vodka."
Shorley shome mishtake?
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so in effect you could tour britain in a MOT-less car forever as long as you pre book an MOT at pre determined stations along your route
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S45 RTA 1988 says "reasonable distance" to travel to a pre-arranged MoT, Contrary to what DVD says there I believe that there may be case-law on it.
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>>>>>S45 RTA 1988 says "reasonable distance" to travel to a pre-arranged MoT<<<<
Where do you get that from PU. My copy (with amendments) of Section 45 RTA 88 and exemption uder Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regs 1981 does not mention any distance.....
dvd
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UK Tax and MOT is applicable to UK only. You don't need to pay money to DVLA if you drive on European roads (outside UK). Tax is sort to toll you pay to use the UK roads.
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I think we may be on the wrong track here. The vehicle is on sorn but is in estonia. If a vehicle is taken out of the country for a period of time then dvla should have been informed of this.
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVeh...2
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Again, thanks very much to everyone who has replied.
zookeeper, >>im sure the mot test there isnt as comprehensive as ours in the uk.
I wouldn't be so sure! Estonia follows German regs in a lot of cases and the German MOT is a lot tougher than UK. In my experience here, with my previous 1985 car, they refused to test it as it had been modified - roll cage etc. (thus not conforming to manufacturer's specification). So I sold it and it is now registered (and MOT'ed) in Czech Rep. Unless something has changed, the last car with a roll cage I took for its UK MOT passed with no problems at all.
The Estonian MOT stations (all newly built) look exactly like that shown in Kevin's link above. An Estonian MOT (even if possible with a UK car) would of course have no legal status, it would simply be an attempt by me to show I have taken reasonable steps to ensure it is roadworthy.
PU, duly noted.
davwood, as per your link, DVLA do not need to be informed if car is temporary export i.e. less than 1 year.
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According to the DVLA web site, the vehicle must remain taxed while it is abroad, so by default you can't sorn it out of the country. I wonder what sorn address you can use if it's already out of the country, because I will soon be in the same boat. Although it does say you can apply for an export doc, as well as retaining the V5 part, so in theory you can remove it from UK books, but not necessarily register it abroad. It does make me laugh how they bang on about EU and free movement, but then there's a whole bunch of rules, like the one's stopping you registering a foreign car in another country, hat hinder free movement with something that is entirely legal in one member state.
It makes me laugh how a lot of people think that when you mention some EU countries they automatically assume they must be behind the UK in standards. In terms of infrastructure, systems, motoring etc. so called Great Britain is seriously lacking in almost every area. Of course, the one area they do excel in is spying on the population so they can come down hard on minor offences in the vain hope it will somehow eliminate the serious ones like terrorism, shootings, and rampant illegal immigration.
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Some EU countries they automatically assume they must be behind the UK in standards
They might change their opinion after Terminal 5 fiasco :)
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According to the DVLA web site the vehicle must remain taxed while it is abroad
>>>>
Don't you need a UK address to tax a UK-registered vehicle? So supposing your UK tax expired one month after going abroad, how would you renew it?
How would you get a new MOT in order to be able to tax it, if you were abroad?
Would an Estonian MOT be valid for taxing a UK-registered car?
Supposing your tax expired while abroad and it needed work for an "MOT" in order to renew. In the UK you would just Sorn it. So you would have to Sorn it abroad, surely? What option would there be?
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"UK Tax and MOT is applicable to UK only."
Nonsense.
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DN, Billy - you have mail !
(nothing negative at all)
PU
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" they refused to test it as it had been modified - roll cage etc"
Not sure about that statement regarding "mot" abroad. germany has rally cars too, and they have to be road legal!
But in my understanding of taking car for mot (when on sorn) is classed as reasonable distance. (Define reasonable though?) I take it to mean that if it is a "specialist" vehicle it may be allowed to be driven to a "specialist" testing station. But for normal type cars I think taking it past more than a few mot stations would be stretching the point and certainly arousing questions if no more from the authorities.
Why not trailer it? Even hire a trailer if need be? If its rally type vehicle you surely have acess to trailer and other vehicle?
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yorkiebar, plenty of rally cars in Estonia too! But the issue was to do with homologation (mine had expired - nothing I could've done about that) and registration with the local motorsport body. Rally cars with expired homologation (or no homologation) could not be (regularly) used on the public road (unlike UK).
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BW, i think i have the solution to your predicament, instead of driving it to the uk (4200mls) roughly 100 gals of fuel , drive it to china , you should get a decent price if you weigh it in there as they are desperate for scrap steel...then use the readies and fly back to blighty in comfort and you dont have the worry of failing an MOT, you can pick up a cheap run about in england with 12 months MOT for under £500
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Actually, I can get to UK from here in 635 road miles.
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I'm surprised that nobody has asked this (unless it's covered in another post), but out of pure curiosity (and out right 'noseyness'!) - what's the car being brought back? Is it something incredibly rare (and valuable) or perhaps of pure sentimental value?
Just wondering why your even contemplating this - please accept my apologies if this comes across the 'wrong' way!
Regards.
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>>Just wondering why your even contemplating this
CWE, because its fun!
Rare? Increasingly.
Valuable? No (I am the owner) But incredible value for money.
Sentimental value? I haven't had it long and am looking forward to getting rid ;-)
Edited by Billy Whizz on 28/03/2008 at 21:32
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Because that would be no fun! Like trailering an old banger in the Dakar rally.
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>why not trailer it?
then I have to get the trailer (and tow car) back to Estonia. Would rather fly back for £70. Plus I have only 7 days for this exercise.
Also, the main reason for sale is I have to make space for getting back my first car from my friend who has been keeping it for me for the last 10 years, as he has finally started restoring his 1960's Fiat 500 "estate" car that has been in storage till now.
Edited by Billy Whizz on 29/03/2008 at 10:28
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This thread has made me laugh with the "why don't you" suggestions. Billy wants to drive his car !
Mind you you could disassemble it and smuggle it in in suitcases:-
"I bought it (in) one piece at a time and didn't cost me a dime !"
Edited by Pugugly on 29/03/2008 at 10:32
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PU, I kid you not, a couple of years ago, my family and I flew back from Berlin with one second-hand alloy wheel each as our hold baggage! Am I car crazy?
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Only if you sang "wheel meet again" on the way !
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