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What happens with the paperwork - can you just drive a car over the Channel without a V5 etc?
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I suppose they're now in the EU so VAT will not apply.
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Big Bad Dave mentioned something about a market in Poland for converted RHD to LHD vehicles. Could be that.
Nice description on eBay by the way DP - looked like that car had served your family well.
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"a market in Poland for converted RHD to LHD vehicles.'
Yeah, there are garages that specialise in this although it seems a lot of trouble to go to.
He might be bringing it over to break up, no conversion costs, no import paperwork, no taxes, no MOT, just profit profit profit. Big market for spares over here.
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Nice description on eBay by the way DP - looked like that car had served your family well.
To be honest barchettaman, it has done all we have ever asked of it and more. I would not hesitate to recommend the mk2 Mondeo to anyone. The 1.8TD engine lets it down a bit as it's very vibey and rough, but it's reliable as the tides and sips fuel unless you boot it around town. Never failed an MOT, and never left me stranded. Bought it with 100k on the clock nearly 3 yrs ago for £2.2k, and spent less than £200 outside of routine servicing and consumables. A CV joint, a rear engine mount, a throttle cable, a water pump and an expansion tank cap.
There aren't many cars you could buy at 100k and pile another 40k on over three years and never suffer a single serious fault. It chugged into life first turn of the key in the hardest frost, and always got me from A to B. Slowly and noisily, but it got me there.
I'd have another.
Cheers
DP
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If you are driving a UK registered car to the continent you are required to carry the V5 with you.
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Maybe it's someone who has worked out the benefit of having a Polish reg car in the UK now wanting to do the same in Poland? Speeding tickets etc. will not be such a problem nor might parking tickets.
Do Poland do speeding tickets, or do they work primarily with on-the-spot fines?
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Well, she's gone. Lovely guy turned up bang on time, handed over cash and drove her away.
Him and his mate fly over, buy two at a time and drive them back to sell on. Had another V plate Ghia they'd just picked up in London. Said they fetch a very good price back home.
By this time next month, she'll be left hand drive (through a contact of his) and sporting a Polish registration.
Fair play to him.
Cheers
DP
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What on earth are the economics of buying a car for £650, driving it to Poland, converting it to LHD (if I read DP correctly) and then selling it on AND making a living/profit at it? The conversion must be very cheap and cheerful! Perhaps Big Bad Dave could give us his views on this?
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Surely there must be other European countries with cars like these that are already LHD, which would negate the need for a conversion......... or is it the case that our cars are dirt cheap compared to similar abroad?
I was under the impression it's expensive over here? Maybe it isn't then.
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I can't see how it works either, but he said that used cars are significantly cheaper here than in other EU countries, and the gap is enough to make it worth getting the conversion done. They do two a week on average, mostly Mondeos, with the odd Escort, but always with the 1.8TD engine.
I think it's the first time I've ever sat on my sofa having a coffee and a chat with a car buyer at 10 past midnight!
Cheers
DP
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DP, glad it worked out well. The Poles I know are just like Brits in many ways. They have a strong regard for UK for historical reasons. I have driven across Poland several times on holiday and find it fascinating.
But I still have not fully worked out the economics of the LHD conversion. Even using second-hand parts and cheap labour this has still to cost £500, don't you think??
Have a look at (the english version of)
www.mobile.de/home/index.html?lang=en#1 to see what your car sells for in Germany (which of course is right next door to Poland and is chock full of good LHD cars).
A 1997 TD Ghia estate with 300,000 kms is going for ?1800.
Edited to add: LOL at pafosman story
Edited by Billy Whizz on 09/03/2008 at 08:56
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"They have a strong regard for UK for historical reasons"
....and to our eternal shame we let them down badly just when their war was winnable.
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or is it the case that our cars are dirt cheap compared to similar abroad?
We have about the worst used car prices in the world - oh, and about the highest new prices too. Bonkers.
If we did away with the twice yearly registration plate identifier which ages cars very quickly I'm absolutely convinced that new car sales would collapse in the UK. It therefore follows that used prices would start to come up.
Edited by Bill Payer on 09/03/2008 at 11:00
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I think the economics depends on your desired level of conversion. On the 'L' you get the steering column only and your passenger does the pedals. The 'GL' gets you both and on the 'Ghia' you get the dashboard. Probably doesn't matter about the wipers. IME the Polish are a remarkably resourceful race. 30 years age I was working in Libya. Some Polish guys on the site dragged a wrecked Fiat out of a ditch and after work, stripped it and with hand tools and muscle, beat it back into shape. They rebuilt it with a borrowed welder, brush painted it and could be seen blatting along the North African Highway looking pretty damn smug! I never accepted their offer a lift though.
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Excellent pafosman! My keyboard is splattered with coffee and half eaten Hob Nobs!
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What did you do with the V5?
I sold a car to an Irish chap who wanted to take it over to Ireland. I filled out the v5 for a UK address so it could be reregistered and then he could export it. If they are taking it back to Poland, how and where are you sending the V5 to?
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I think he'll be able to sell it for more money in Poland.
I sold my Volvo S40 TD to a Polish chap who was living in London. After talking to him for a bit he told me he was taking the car to Poland. He paid me almost my asking price (the car was advertised on gumtree). Maybe the locals pay more because car is from UK hence well looked after?
As my origins are from Pakistan, I know people who buy old sought after cars (in Pakistan) from here, they spend a bit on them in Pakistan and then sell for £xxxx profit!
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My old Pug 605 was converted to LHD for 2000 zlots, about 340 squid at the time, although it involved a couple of long journeys to collect parts. My friend paid about a grand to convert a 2001 Passat, another friend paid about 800 quid to convert a big Rover. Choice of car is vital though, some have a hole in the bulkhead already in place for LHD. The 605 did, 406 doesn't, 607 does etc etc. I should add that some of the conversions I have seen have been a bit... shoddy. Broken trim and screws drilled into the facia.
I've said before that the price of used cars in mainland Europe is shocking (for the kind of cars I go for). If you can find anything on the internet that even comes close to UK prices you can guarantee it's been rolled or had a fire. About three years ago I picked up my year 2000 406 V6 in Coventry for the equivalent of 16200 zlots, the cheapest I could get after a lot of searching in Poland for the same year, spec and mileage was 36000 zlots. There's a lot of profit in there even after driving it over, converting it and paying the taxes. (Yes, there is an import tax)
It doesn't work with every car though, just big x-fleet cars that we give away (big fords, big Peugeots, big Vauxhals) they still have a lot of status over here and fetch premium prices.
I still think it's a lot of effort to go to to make a few hundred quid, but that's a lot of money over here. Remember on Fifth gear recently when the guy with the wicked sideburns drove to Poland to buy diesel? He stopped off in Steczyn (sp?) I think it was, just after the Poland/German border. There are whole communities, towns and villages in this region where their primary income comes from importing cars.
Incidently, whenever I stop at Macdonalds drive-in or whatever, someone will knock on my window and offer to buy my car for cash, and it's usually more than I paid for it.
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...we really ought to switch over to driving on the right!
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>>(Yes, there is an import tax)
Is there? I thought we were all in the EU now, and so tax-free borders.
>Steczyn
Szczecin in Polish, Stettin in German. Stayed the night there once, en route to Poland at the end of July 1997. The following morning papers were full of flooding in the headwaters of the river Oder. Predicted to arrive at Szczecin 48 hours later and destroy all bridges over the river, cutting Poland off from the rest of Europe. It did, too.
We turned round and holidayed elsewhere!
Edited by Mapmaker on 09/03/2008 at 15:18
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BBD - many thanks for your interesting comments. I can accept that cars are more expensive in Poland, not least because you say so, but why is this? Surely there isn't a shortage of 2nd hand cars - laws of supply and demand etc? Is it that new ones are hugely expensive so the activity is the second hand market?
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Supply and demand surely AS? Something like: Poles are quite poor, but getting richer. However as they are quite poor the supply of new cars is limited, so second-hand ones are expensive. QED?
If we had left hand drive in this country perhaps our second-hand cars would be more expensive than they are. I suspect we have this glut of good second-hand cars because we get a lot of new ones paid for by companies and corporations, then chucked out after three or four years.
We are lucky, and long may it remain so.
Of course all this may be total rubbish. I don't know much about economics or the motor trade and am supreme carp at shrewd buying and selling.
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You know what AS, I just haven't figured it out. I think it's more to do with variety than anything else, there's just a lot more on offer in Germany. New cars cost the same here, but you won't get the discounts that are available in the UK. Having said that, there is no shortage of people driving new cars in Warsaw, everybody except me seems to have one - I think it's long credit terms that make it possible - my friend, a motoring journalist, is tied into his for 8 years for a new Seat Altea. Plenty of X5s, MLs, Touaregs, Chrysler 300s to be seen as well as Mondeos and Octavias. And I could be mistaken about this but I'm pretty sure that company cars here are not considered to be part of your taxable income.
The government continues to try and kick-start the New Car sales by taxing imports (which may have been reclassified as a registration fee by now, but I don't think so). It's shocking the amount of junk you see on transporters coming into the country as you cross the borders but none of it seems to be coming to Warsaw.
A country of contrasts to be sure, amidst all the claimed poverty a new shopping Mall seems to open every week, a horizon of construction work going on and everywhere you look somebody is building their own house. Great place to be at the moment.
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He has the V5. I have the export section and a signed, dated (and timed) receipt with his contact details on it which are winging their way to the DVLA as I write this.
He can't get the car out of the country without the V5.
Has stacks of Ebay feedback dating back to 2005, and I have his contact number in case of any problems.
Cheers
DP
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Last weekend up in Wales saw a PL registered car-transporter carrying 7 or 8 good looking UK registered cars, planted in the middle was a Vauxhall Victor (Mk1) - there must be a story there !
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Need to have the V5 when driving abroad!
maybe so, and I always have mine with me; but have never been asked to produce it.
So in theory it would be easy to book a ferry, drive a car over there, sell it and fly back?
Got any contacts that want to buy cars BBD ? Sounds easier than selling a car here :)
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I've thought about it many a time - flying to England, few nights out with the lads then driving back in an old Mondeo and flogging it - not as a career move, just as a string of free holidays. Perhaps if business goes quiet.
I've often wondered about doing it in a Smart - they're all LHD so only the lights to change. And the tax levied is calculated on age and engine size which is what 20, maybe 30 cc? Would you want to drive 1000 miles in Smart though?
What puts me off is the paperwork and the queues involved in registering a car over here (done it once and that was enough) and all the malarky over insurance - different car every month or whatever...
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I was just thinking of driving them over and selling them; letting someone else have the paperwork detail!
If you want to?????
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Big Bad Dave wrote:
"... my friend, a motoring journalist, is tied into his for 8 years for a new Seat Altea. "
Mine is tied for 11 years for his KIA c'eed.
" Plenty of X5s, MLs, Touaregs, Chrysler 300s to be seen as well as Mondeos and Octavias. And I could be mistaken about this but I'm pretty sure that company cars here are not considered to be part of your taxable income. "
Oh, they are... Besides, nearly 70% of all cars in Warsaw are company cars. Those are those MLs & 300Cs you see, all leased, naturally.
" A country of contrasts to be sure, amidst all the claimed poverty a new shopping Mall seems to open every week, a horizon of construction work going on and everywhere you look somebody is building their own house. Great place to be at the moment. "
Yeah, but bear in mind it's a capital city. I visited my grandma recently, country side, that kind of thing. It's a shock, like a travel in the past. Old Mercs W124s, old Fiestas from the middle '90, everything rusted and barely moving. If you can afford a new car over there, you're a loaded man. All this construction-sites-going-on-around really take place only in bigger cities, Warsaw, Poznan, Krakow and so on.
Edited by Vincent de Marco on 10/03/2008 at 18:47
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"I was just thinking of driving them over and selling them; letting someone else have the paperwork detail!"
DP's contact seems to be a good place to start. Problem is, RHD has no value here until it becomes LHD, so he'd want it for the same price you paid. I'm driving over myself in a couple of weeks. Beers anyone?
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Well I just heard from the buyer and the old girl made the long haul back to Poland without skipping a beat. He's well pleased, and has left me some nice feedback on Ebay.
A nice easy transaction all round. Couldn't have worked out better.
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 11/03/2008 at 19:29
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interesting stat of late : every year 50,000 ( that's a 1000 a week ) cars are stolen or hi-jacked in Poland .
A Polish contact has a side line in buying Sprinter vans here , driving them across and converting them to LHD
Finally, having driven to Europe at least 20 times , I have never been asked to show any documents at any port . They could all have been stolen .
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"He can't get the car out of the country without the V5."
Not in my experience. I made 15 trip to Europe in less than six months, and all I did was show my passport at Dover/Poole. I was once stopped in Holland while they checked my passport. My vehicle docs were never asked for.
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You have obviously never been to Estonia!
Beware, you will NOT get in without your original V5. A photocopy will not suffice. British and Dutch embassies tell me that many tourists get stopped at the border (resulting in panic calls to the embassies for help.)
I had to show my V5 when I went to Finland, too.
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