Is there an absolute drink-drive limit for cyclists, or is their limit, as I think, "any amount as long as they can still control their bicycles properly", and that the "breathalyser" does not apply to them.
Perhaps this should be in IHAQ - if so, apologies.
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The Licensing Act 1872 makes it an offence to be drunk in charge of a bicycle (or any other vehicle or carriage, or cattle) on a highway or in a public place but this old law also forbids any public drunkenness - even in a pub - so is probably pretty irrelevant.
In UK law a bicycle is defined as a carriage for use on the highway but cyclists are not in charge of 'mechanically propelled' vehicles so, in law, do not have to adhere to exactly the same 'drink drive' rules as motorists.
Section 30 Road Traffic Act 1988 says: "It is an offence for a person to ride a cycle on a road or other public place when unfit to ride through drink or drugs - that is to say - is under the influence of a drink or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the cycle".
A warning though, cycling 'dangerously' can apparently be fined by up to £2500.
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Unlike Germany where you can lose car licence.
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>Unlike Germany where you can lose car licence.
... which can also happen if you are caught in the possession of illicit substances on the train back from the Netherlands.
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and people say we live in a police state!
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I think you'll find that drug trafficking is illegal pretty much everywhere, including the UK.
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cyclists are not in charge of 'mechanically propelled' vehicles so in law do not have to adhere to exactly the same 'drink drive' rules as motorists.
Are they required to submit to a "breathalyser" test?
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Section 30 Road Traffic Act 1988 says: "It is an offence for a person to ride a cycle on a road or other public place when unfit to ride through drink or drugs - that is to say - is under the influence of a drink or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the cycle". A warning though cycling 'dangerously' can apparently be fined by up to £2500.
You mean, the punishment may be severe in some cases, but the case is assessed on its individual circumstances? That's remarkably constructive. I wonder when we'll get that sort approach to the law for driving...
Question for the OP: Have you had problems with drunk cyclists? There are lots of cyclists around where I live (often including me) and many of them have just left the pub (often including me) but I can't really bring to mind any incidents I've seen where drunkenness on a bicycle has been a problem.
[and if I've strayed outside the scope of the Discussion forum, please shout at me (gently) and I apologise]
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Question for the OP: Have you had problems with drunk cyclists?
No.
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Is there an absolute drink-drive limit for cyclists
And why do you ask, pray?
I have been known to go for a drink or two and cycle home but I wouldn't welcome drawing a parallel between alcohol limits for drivers of motor vehicles and for cyclists. Different skills are needed and the potential for inflicting death or serious injury is reduced on a bicycle.
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I think the figures for deaths of drunk pedestrians and cyclits are pretty frightening.
I've certainly wobbled home on occasion in Cambridge where the only thing keeping me upright was the gyroscopic action of my wheels.
But they always told us we could lose our driving licence for being drunk in charge of a punt.
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on occasion in Cambridge where the only thing keeping me upright was the gyroscopic action of my wheels.
So what is it that normally keeps you upright when you are cycling Mm? Antigrav? A skyhook? National pride?
:o}
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So what is it that normally keeps you upright when you are cycling Mm? Antigrav? A skyhook? National pride? :o}
Not gyroscopic effects. Bicycles are constantly falling to one side or the other and the brain perceives and corrects it without you even noticing. Gyro effects are negligible at low speeds anyway, especially on bikes with small wheels.
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Carp Baskerville, as you indicate yourself by drawing attention to the inferiority of small-wheeled bicycles in balancing terms...
I'd agree if you were talking about unicycles though.
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My understanding is that gyroscopic effects have nothing to do with keeping bicycles upright.
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My understanding is that gyroscopic effect does have something to do with keeping a bicycle upright. If it didn't, balancing a stationary bicycle would be no more difficult than balancing a moving one, which as any fule kno it isn't.
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What?
Small-wheeled bicycles are more difficult to balance because the size of the wheels means the correction has to be more accurate--castor action doesn't work so well on small-wheeled bikes because of the limitations of frame geometry. Gyro effects help at speed, but not so much with balance as with stability, especially on short wheelbase racing bikes which are rather skittish. Riding at 12mph on a 700C-wheeled bike will not generate enough gyroscopic effect to keep you upright. Try running alongside a bike and letting it go. If you launch it right it will just about keep itself upright for a second or two at 10-15mph. Do you think that will work with a 12-stone sack of flour on top? It's the human brain and the steering that does it, not the gyro. The constant correcting is the reason why many cyclists appear to wobble.
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www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~hemh/gyrobike.htm
The gyroscopic effect has no effect on bicycle stability.
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Actually a bicycle launched on a smooth road at that speed, if pretty well vertical, will stay upright for several seconds, sometimes ten or more. I'm surprised you never discovered that in your hooligan youth.
Obviously the gyroscopic effect with bicycle wheels isn't as strong as it would be if they weighed a hundredweight and turned at 2000 rpm. It doesn't force you to stay upright. But it certainly helps. As you discover when you try to balance a stationary bicycle without putting your feet on the ground.
In fact any gyro, however heavy and fast, will suffer some sort of slow drift.
Perhaps what you mean is that gyroscopic effect alone doesn't keep a cyclist upright. I would agree with that. I too can ride a bike. But that doesn't mean that gyro effect has no role at all.
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Actually a bicycle launched on a smooth road at that speed if pretty well vertical will stay upright for several seconds sometimes ten or more. I'm surprised you never discovered that in your hooligan youth.
I did, but it really isn't for long and frankly the same thing would probably work to some extent with skis. It's just not significant enough to have any effect. It may well help smooth things out at high speed, but I'm talking about cornering at 30mph or more, not wobbling back from the pub, and even then it doesn't make the difference between falling over or not. As someone who actually can balance stationary on a bike I'd say gyro effect is an almost unmeasurably small influence.
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As someone who actually can balance stationary on a bike I'd say gyro effect is an almost unmeasurably small influence.
Oh all right Baskerville. But as someone who can't balance stationary on a bike I'd say the gyro effect, though small, is useful to the less accomplished trick cyclist.
:oP
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less accomplished trick cyclist.
No, really, it's actually not as hard as you'd think. No harder than learning to ride a bike in the first place anyway. It's just that most people never have the need to try. Anyone who regularly rides in traffic with their feet attached to the pedals will be quite good at it.
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>> Is there an absolute drink-drive limit for cyclists And why do you ask pray?
Because I don't know. The same reason that any question is normally asked! Do *you* know? If not, wouldn't you like to?
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 14/02/2008 at 13:30
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Somewhere deep in the history of English law you will find some law that makes everthing illegal.
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There is no limit set.
Drink drive limit applies to motor vehicles only not cycles.
One therefore has to go to the rule of thumb used by Plod for ages - BAGS:
B reath
A ctions
G ait
S peech
dvd
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Isn't 'furious cycling' still an offence?
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Is that cycling fast or cycling when angry??
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I think the phrase was riding furiously...Old chap near me was knocked off his bike on the corner of our Close. He broke his hip and never rode again. When the Police attended the accident he was breathalysed.
wemyss
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snipquoteBecause I don't know. The same reason that any question is normally asked! Do *you* know? If not wouldn't you like to?
Wot, no hidden agenda? I misjudged the tone of the post; apologies. Yes, I'd like to know so I'll keep reading.
:-)
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/02/2008 at 19:15
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I was once hit by a car while riding a bike. The driver was breath tested; I wasn't. Wouldn't have objected to it, though, if I had been asked to provide a sample.
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Both ripped as stoats were you, DH? :o}
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I lost my balance due to the keg of beer I had perched on my handlebars.
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