I need a new battery for my '58 Minor. The price of a GM battery is very tempting, but I note it's described as 'calcium technology'. I know that calcium/silver batteries are designed for specific modern charging systems. There are no indications of special requirements in the GM parts book for calcium batteries and I get the impression from a bit of surfing that a calcium battery is fine with a normal alternator. I may be over cautious, but can anyone advise if I am I likely to get problems on a car with a dynamo?
JS
Edited by John S on 11/02/2008 at 19:45
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I think they are simply capable of being fast charged at high current. I have used Varta Silver Dynamic in basic older cars with no problems.
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JS
That sounds a good idea. Calcium plates are more over-voltage resistant.
The RB106/2 on these is set to charge at 16.0 - 16.6 volts OCV. That's far too high for a modern sealed lead/acid battery, but the calcium ones are designed to withstand nearly that voltage from a smart charge system so should last longer.
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Thanks for your help guys, that's much appreciated. I'll press ahead with one of them.
Screwloose - I reset the regulator to original voltage a good few years back - can't remember the exact open circuit setting now. I checked recently as I thought the battery was failing and it gives about 14.3 - 14.4 V across the battery, so not hugely different from the 'typical' alternator.
JS
Edited by John S on 12/02/2008 at 17:25
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The RB106/2 regulator was set on open circuit but had a "drooping" voltage characteristic with load. This is a rather cheapskate way of avoiding the fitment of a separate current regulator as found on (say) the RB340 3 bobbin regulators. The idea behind it was to give a highish daytime charging rate but to let the voltage droop with increasing machine load (flat battery) in order to protect the dynamo. To prevent this effect from becoming too pronounced when the headlamps are in use together with a high battery demand, the "droop" was backed off with the half-turn coil feeding the headlamp circuit.
If you have about 14.3V across the battery at light load, I would sugest this is an ideal setting. The antimony used to stiffen battery grids was replaced with calcium some years ago in order to reduce gassing at high charging voltages. This will not cause any problems at the charging voltages you are dealing with.
Make sure the cut out is correctly set - if you have a dashboard ammeter it should show about a 5A discharge before disconnecting the dynamo armature.
I was involved in the development of the first alternator regulators for the commercial division of Lucas. We were always a bit sniffy about the Birmingham designed equipment, but it was reasonably well engineered until Lord Stokes came along and Lucas stupidly followed his drive to produce total rubbish. This left Lucas with unsaleable products on the World market. RIP Prince of Darkness.
659.
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I was involved in the development of the first alternator regulators for the commercial division
Was that the elegantly-simple alloy-cased selectable-voltage CAV unit?
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The very one - Type 440.
659.
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I need some detailed help with the control box adjustment on my TR3. It is working well except that the dashboard ammeter needle jumps around a lot and the battery seems to need topping up a lot. It is an open cell Lincon black beast and I feel that I need to adjust the control box to prevent this happening. Does the needle fluctuation mean that the cut out needs cleaning. I have tried this twice and wrecked the unit both times. I do not want to be boiling the battery and need some detailed instruction in the adjustment. I would be very grateful for help from someone who knows the intricacies of this unit.
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Calcium batteries can be charged by any sort of charging system including dynamos but "smart" alternators must be used with a calcium battery.Lincon are still in business.
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Should be the other way around-"Don't use a non-calcium battery if you car is fitted with a "smart" alternator".In other words,calcium batteries can be used on all vehicles and,I am told,will soon be the only type available.
Edited by jc2 on 08/03/2009 at 10:07
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Dusting down some old Lucas applications sheets, it seems the TR3 had an RB106/2 as in the example above.
A wildly fluctuating ammeter when on charge generally indicates dirty voltage regulator contacts. These are made of tungsten (very hard) and will need either renewal or careful cleaning with emery. The regulator will then have to be reset, first mechanically using feeler gauges and then electrically.
You must have access to the relevant data and have the necessary tools to do this properly - bodging will make it worse. Note also that the cut out contacts are silver and if necessary can be cleaned with very fine glass paper - don't let emery anywhere near them as the abrasive embeds iself in the silver. Again, the cut out will need to be set mechanically and then electrically.
I can't promise anything as my data is incomplete, but if you can give me the Lucas part number of the regulator fitted to your vehicle, I'll try and get the setting values for you.
659.
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The part number is 32980 and the remaining numbers on the side, are the date and RB106/2. I had trouble finding this thread tonight. I am new to this site so please can you tell me how to find this thread after opening up HonestJohn. There must be a simple way. I tried RB106/2 in the search box and found nothing. In the end I went back to google and found the thread the same way as originally, by typing RB106/2 and search.
I have tried to clean these points before and ruined two control boxes. I now have some aerosol cleaner for electronics, but I am not sure that it is all that useful. I would really like to send my control box away and have it properly cleaned and adjusted on a rig. I dont think that Lucas has the equipment anywhere. I have tried two branches in the past.
Any help would be very useful. Thank you
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OK, you're in luck.
Regulator: Slacken armature retaining screws and back off contact until clear. Insert a 0.021" feeler between armature and core face. Press armature squarely down on core face, tighten screws then screw in adjustable contact until it just touches armature contact, then lock.
Cutout: Slacken armature screws and press down onto core face without feeler gauge. Tighten screws, then with armature pressed down, set gap between armature stop arm and armature tongue to 0.025" - 0.04" by bending the stop arm. Release armature and screw in voltage adjusting screw until armature contacts stop arm. Then adjust fixed contact blade to give a follow through of 0.01" - 0.20" when armature fully pressed down.
Reg electrical: Disconnect cables from A and A1 and join them together. Connect voltmeter between D and Earth. Run dynamo at 3000 rpm and set voltage to 16.0 - 16.5V at 25 degC with regulator spring adjusting screw.
Cutout electrical: Restore connections and load system with headlights. With voltmeter connected as before, slowly increase speed from idle and observe value at which meter falls slightly (flicks back, in the days of analogue meters). This should be 12.75 - 13.25V. Adjust with cut out voltage spring adjusting screw.
To set the drop-off voltage, disconnect cables to A and A1 and join them. Connect voltmeter to A on the control box. With no additional load, start engine and run up to charging speed. Slowly reduce speed and observe voltage just before reading drops to zero. Set this to 8.5 - 11V by carefully bending the fixed cutout contact.
If you do not feel comfortable attempting this, get expert help. These values shoul be correct for your regulator. Definitely, no contact cleaning fluid.
Nostalgia at its best - I just love the units.
659.
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This really is a first class reply and I am very grateful. I would like some expert help and being based in Putney west london I feel that this should be easy. I can not find anyone.
Where have all the Lucas branches gone.
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They went down as LSUK
Edited by jc2 on 09/03/2009 at 13:33
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Does it have to be kept original, or could you put an alternator on? 17ACR Lucas with internal regulator = 34amp output. Easy wiring job and bracket from a late Mini or Allegro. Or I did help a mate with an original who spent out £450 on one of these:
www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?...6
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It really would be a shame to do that to a TR3 - these cars are now special enough to be kept as original as possible. A 17ACR is not an easy fit on the Triumph big 4 engine and Austin Morris brackets (gasp) will not fit it.
Anyway, why not experience for yourself the magical combination of a C40 dynamo and an RB106/2 regulator and find out how the "King of the Road" became "The Prince of Darkness"? These are fun cars after all.
Seriously, print out the setting instructions and I hope you can find someone to do the job properly. Although this equipment was designed for '50s road conditions, it was at least well made. Keep it original.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 09/03/2009 at 15:30
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I am keen to keep this car original. I bought it in 1966 and rebuilt it from 1969-1986. We won the concours in that year and I have been judging the competition for some years now at the yearly international at malvern.
I have a collection of Indian made units which are no good and now use a 1962 unit from a land rover. I have also purchased 5 other old units so that when I can find someone to overhaul them I will have a good one on the car, one in the boot, and one or more in the garage. These will all be proper Lucas units made before the Green boxes came in.
I drove the car every day for 3 years and never had a problem with the regulator or cut-out. Now it only comes out for 2000 miles per year in the sun, I am having more problems than ever before.
I know the answer and do not have the time. It will be my daily driver when i retire, soon hopefully.
Thank you for the help.
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