Interesting response, blueslipper, but you were right to mention it. They can't come back to you now, and your conscience is clear.
If anyone thinks that's surprising, try this: I went to replace SWMBO's Honda Civic with a younger one at the weekend. Had a long chat with the salesman about what I was looking for. He didn't have it in stock, but was adamant he could find me one elsewhere in the (non-franchise) network.
Later that day (Sunday) he rang back to say he'd found one in Yorkshire, and if I was up for a redundable deposit he'd get it brought down. I told him my part-ex details and he called back a few minutes later with an offer I was happy with.
Earlier this evening I went to check over the new car and take it for a drive. I was happy, so I signed for the deal including part-ex.
The surprise? He still hasn't seen my part-ex.
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Of course the dealer isn't bothered about the possible fault on your car, Blueslipper.
1) He built a healty margin for repairs into the P/X offer
2) He wants the sale of the new car more than he's worried about the value of the old one - because the sale is worth more to him
3) You'd be a mug to spend money on the repair before trading in. By all means tell the dealer (as you did), but bear in mind he's not paying labour to his own workshop to repair the fault. You would, though, if you had the work done first!
I've been reminded of this twice recently - once with the ?750 bundle of bills for my old Punto on its 4-yearly timing belt (and unscheduled failures!) service and recently with MiL's ?2,000 bill to get her 00 Focus through its MOT.
PS: To be fair, in the latter case, the Ford dealer rang her having inspected the car to say i'd be as cheap trade it in. She chose to repair because she knows the history of her own car, unlike the hard-worked estate she'd otherwise end up with as a replacement to it.
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3) You'd be a mug to spend money on the repair before trading in. By all means tell the dealer (as you did), but bear in mind he's not paying labour to his own workshop to repair the fault. You would, though, if you had the work done first!
Not entirely true, you have to bear in mind that 'sales' & 'servicing' (in most bigger concerns & dealerships) internally account for work done - even if at a preferential rate.
Also, even if doing sales refurb. work for 'nothing' , they'll be the notional (but real) opprotunity cost, i.e. while doing that work, they can't be charging a punter £100ph.
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>>Not entirely true, you have to bear in mind that 'sales' & 'servicing' (in most bigger
>>concerns & dealerships) internally account for work done - even if at a preferential rate.
But for the Group as a whole, Ford Corp or whoever, that isn't an issue. It gets done for free.
>>Also, even if doing sales refurb. work for 'nothing' , they'll be the notional (but real)
>>opprotunity cost, i.e. while doing that work, they can't be charging a punter £100ph.
Nah. There's always spare capacity at a garage. (Isn't there?) So the opportunity cost is near to nil - provided they're prepared to wait, which they are.
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But for the Group as a whole, Ford Corp or whoever, that isn't an issue. It gets done for free.
If it's really done 'for free' - any level of disrepair can be remedied for no cost presumably? Ask the finance director of your local dealership.
Nah. There's always spare capacity at a garage. (Isn't there?) So the opportunity cost is near to nil - provided they're prepared to wait, which they are.
If there isn't an opportunity cost, I would suggest the that dealership or group will soon be broke. Service & repair income generates the signifigant profit for most non-broker type garages/dealers these days.
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Woodbines. You may perform a reductio ad absurdum if you prefer but it won't show you anything worthwhile. In reality, one extra car needing an hour or two in the garage is not going to require the dealer to:
1. Take on extra staff
2. Lose out on other business
3. Incur any additional cost save for any spare parts.
The marginal cost is therefore that of the spare parts, and moreover the *marginal* cost to FORD group as a whole of a branded spare part is next to nothing. You pay £350 for a Ford-branded widget because you are paying for them to carry them as stock. Not because it costs £3.50 (sic) to manufacture.
So when Ford reports its annual accounts to the stock market (which, when it coes down to it is what matters) the cost of rectifying OP's car will have dwindled to near zero... assuming it doesn't end up at auction anyway.
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...one extra car needing an hour or two in the garage...
If that's all there is (although you don't say how many cars, over what period) you're probably right.
However, any busines that employs staff makes revenue or income calculations based on output per hour generated per employee & realised retail price of stock held & the profit calculations are this, minus costs. I'll wager any large garage or dealer cannot afford to have technicians working on cars at very low (or 'free') hourly rates - so, whether they're working on cars sold on the premises by salespeople or simply customers' cars in for service/repair, the income generated must reach at least a minimum profit level.
So, the profit the salesperson makes on the retail prepared car must take into account all the costs associated, otherwise it's not an economic proposition. To imply you can casually defray the cost because the 'mechanic wasn't doing anything anyway' & 'the part didn't cost us much, so we can forego retail profit on it' - is novel, to say the least.
To use the 'FORD group as a whole' unit of productivity is a red herring. The economic unit is the dealership or garage - again, you imply that it's ok for a part of the group/network to make a loss, as the group profit will cover this. But if you adopt that fallacious reasoning
- how do you make sure any part makes a profit?
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Blueslipper
I am proud of you - glad to know we are all as honest with dealers as they are with us -- In all the years of buying second hand cars from dealers not one has failed to point out any faults.
examples are - sawdust in sump oil - shot wheel bearings - exhaust held together with asbestos tape and wire - three odd size tyres - leaking windscreen - window won't close once open - leaking fuel tank - valve seals gone - tappets gone - - Yes I can honestly hold my hand on heart and say all the dealers did point out these faults
Ouch!! my nose has just hit monitor - did I just see a pink pig fly over that Ford dealer then.
Drop it off -pick up your new car and drive off with a clear conscience -
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/02/2008 at 13:43
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thanks once again for responses.im settled now,the fault has been diagnosed as the coil?? (by the spark plugs).cost me £35 and a tenner to fit it.im happy,clear in my head that ive done all i can.
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Now the car is 100%, do yourself a favour, sell it privately, get a realistic price for it and pocket the extra cash.
Do a new deal with the dealer now you have no car to part-ex you should get a much better deal as a cash buyer.
Cushty, as Del-Boy would say
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Its not just the individual that gets ripped off. Sometimes its the dealer. A friend who works in a VW specialist told me the tale of a local, reliable, garage that took a Mk 4 Golf in px against a newer Mk 5. As they had originally supplied the Mk 4, they had no hesitation in offering a more than fair value for the car, confident in their ability to move it on. On the day of exchange the owner handed over the keys with the phrase 'by the way, there is a light on the dash - bye' and off he went. Said light was engine management, and my friend the specialist found it resulted from a broken valve leaving our local, reliable garage with a large repair bill before the car could be sold on.
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>>>As they had originally supplied the Mk 4, they had no hesitation in offering a more than fair value for the car, confident in their ability to move it on.
Was the dealer assuming that the Mk4 they previously supplied was driven away from them and parked up in a heated garage and started/driven round the block once a week?
Dont be silly! That car could have been (and maybe was) thrashed senseless by all manner of people since that dealer last saw it. Local and reliable they might be but somewhat naive if you ask me! Not Rocket Science really is it?
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Totally agree Stu
There is a big difference between a business and a consumer.
Dealers should be prepared for the worst, and their px offers reflect that - let them value the car, then take it or leave it.
If you sell privately you should be honest in description and price.
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where my son works the sales, workshop and spares are run as separate businesses so if sales get a dodgy s/h motor they are charged by the workshop for the reapair and the workshop is charged by the parts dept for parts used. this is the system used by all the motor/agricultural dealers of a decent size that i know of. jag.
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hi all,thanks for all replies.i sorted my old car out for less than £100 and traded it in with a clear head.im made up with my new car (fiesta tdci) and fully appreciate all your comments
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