Sorry OP, I simply don't believe you can't read the speedo. If you really can't then please hang up your keys and buy a push bike.
Or buy a Mini, it's got a speedo the size of a dinner plate slap bang in the middle of the dash.
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Sorry but this is nonsense - if you can read the speedo, check in with specsavers.
Ive not driven a car yet that has a speedo you cannot read at a glance, including digital and those placed in the middle of the dash - often those in middle of the dash are much closer to your line of sight in normal driving than one right infront of you - the one in my Rover 400 is set quite low but its still useable - I prefer those sat ontop of the dash in the middle or infront of me. Just dont think this is any kind of problem.
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The speedometer should be small and out of the way. The driver's view should be dominated by a large Jaeger rev counter, with a needle that twitches and flicks back and forth, redlined at 4,500...
Clear and precisely calibrated oil pressure and temperature and water temperature gauges should also of course be in fairly central positions, well above that of the despicable speedometer, ptui!
And of course a fuel gauge reading inaccurately in 5-gallon increments to 50 gallons.
Edited by Lud on 14/01/2008 at 23:31
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I'll go out on a limb here and add my voice to Moonraker's: the point about a CLEAR speedo isn't so much being able to see it perfectly "in yer face" all the time, but rather the ability (in the very few speedos with clear dials and bright needles and mph markings) to "sense" the crucial 30 and 60 (or 30 and 70) markings by a horizontal or vertical line in one's peripheral vision. In other words, we don't have to glance down every 2 seconds. Head up displays are fine for luxury cars, but something more practical is needed for those of us in more everyday Euroboxes.
Small speedos are a pain just like small mirrors (the swoopy ones on my Vectra were the worst I ever had.) And rev counters (Has anyone ever thought about the stupidity inherent in the marking "x 100 rpm?" on the rev counter, by the way?) marked 10, 20, 30 just the same as the neighbouring speedo can cause confusion in an unfamiliar (hired, borrowed) car.
There is such a science as ergonomics, but in car production it is fashion which seems to rule.
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MY Renault Espace- The Race 2.2dci, it looks like a flight desk up front, and the speedometre is digital in large figures and says the speed you are actually doing
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MY Renault Espace- The Race 2.2dci it looks like a flight desk up front and the speedometre is digital in large figures and says the speed you are actually doing
The Scenic's the same and I quickly discovered that for "quick glance" speed checking, I've been relying on the needle position on an analogue speedo rather than the actual number being read. I know on the Mondeo for example that 30 mph is EXACTLY 9 o'clock, and 80 is exactly 12 o'clock. As the thick white needle is easily picked up in my peripheral vision, I don't even need to divert my eyes to have a pretty accurate indication of my speed.
The best thing about the mk2 Mondeo interior is its instrument panel. An object lesson in big, uncluttered, simple presentation of information.
The Renault digi dash looks cool though, especially at night! I gave a moderately drunk mate a lift home from the pub one night, and when i turned on the ignition, his eyes went wide, and he blurts out "whoa, Knight Rider!"
Cheers
DP
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MY Renault Espace- The Race 2.2dci it looks like a flight desk up front and the speedometre is digital in large figures and says the speed you are actually doing
Doesn't mean to say that because it's 'digital' that it is correct, though, does it?
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My point is that the design of a speedo is now a key safety issue as we all have to check our speed much more frequently. When you are looking at the speedo you are not looking at the road. The worst design I have come across is the Mazda 3 but in the Mazda 5 they changed back to a sensible design.
Again in the BMW, initially I was sometimes looking at the Rev counter until I got used to it.
I cannot see why the rev counter is given such prominence, after all 50% of drivers are women and very few of them are interested in a rev counter; of the men, probably 80% are not interested either? How does this sell cars?
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I agree with the OP, it would be helpful if speedometers were clearly marked at 30 and 70 mph. Personally, as someone who drives a number of different vehicles, I prefer the less popular digital type.
Rev counters should be an optional extra. One I would gladly do without.
Clk Sec
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"The Scenic's the same and I quickly discovered that for "quick glance" speed checking, I've been relying on the needle position on an analogue speedo rather than the actual number being read"
Despite increasing use of LCD montors aircraft still use dials and needlls for exactly this reason. It's easier to see a problem with a needle - if you expecting it to be in one place and it's not you notice straight away.
Boeing had dials with the marker on the outside of the circumference, rather than a clock dial - this arrangement being a contributory factor in the Kegworth crash.
I prefer all speeds to be written on the dial - IIRC the new Mazda 2 only has the 20s marked.
The Aygo doesn't have a rev counter - I don't miss it. Useful in a diesel to keep changes below 3,000.
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Despite increasing use of LCD montors aircraft still use dials and needlls for exactly this reason. It's easier to see a problem with a needle - if you expecting it to be in one place and it's not you notice straight away.
Aircraft designers go even further. They set up dials, displays and guages in groups, and all needles or indicators point the same way at normal. Anything not normal sticks out like a sore thumb that way.
The Altea has a poorly designed speedo, too cluttered. I mean when is a car like that ever going to do 160mph? it has nearly half the speedo thats never going to get used!
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the speedo on the Previa hasn't worked for over a year and I can't say I'm all that bothered by it. I do like the modern digital central speedos in other cars though - I can see them when overtaking/being overtaken and note the revs I'm doing for future reference :)
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Dials and instruments, minor controls, mirrors and so on should be clear and intuitive. Lights should be clearly visible and easy to distinguish. When will manufacturers get together, find one system that works and keep to it, instead of constantly changing for the sake of changing?
There have been fabulously simple and logical dashboards over the years, but a later model comes along and it's all lost as the manufacturer goes, literally, right back to the drawing board.
Remember the first Honda Prelude, with concentric speedometer and tachometer needles? A brilliant and efficient design, saving space and providing easy to assimilate information. Never been repeated.
The vertical "optics" on the XJS dashboard ancillaries meant that a quick glance would show all was well (oil pressure, water temperature, battery charge all at half way mark; fuel gauge would of course go very quickly from full to empty!)
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The C-Max speedo is huge, and very easy to read. It's quite low tech in appearance, which is another reason I prefer it to the over complicated modern displays found in other cars.
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In most cars speedo & tacho size/position is of the following
1. equal speedo & tacho, symmetrically positioned
Most of the time you'll look at speedo than tacho, so you need to move your eyeballs sidewise
2. speedo exactly in front of you and tacho (slightly smaller) is on left or right
I find this layout very good as your eyeballs need minimum movement
3a Instrument cluster at center of car (eg Toyota Yaris) with digital speedo
Your eyeball needs lateral movement
3b Instrument cluster at center of car (eg Nissan Xtrail) with analog speedo
Worse combination!
4. Tacho is at middle in front of you while speedo is digital just over it (eg. new Honda Civic)
Eyeball needs no lateral movement - you can see speed without almost leaving your glance from road.
5a. Analog speedo in middle of cluster (eg. Porsche) , with a smaller speedo on left. Difficult to see speed.
5b. Analog speedo in middle of cluster with a digital speedo in same area (eg. Mazda Rx8)
Easy to see speed.
6. Any other combination??
I personally like case 4. Though most cars have case 1 layout.
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Nissan seem to have listened to customers - in the 07 x-trail the conventional speedo is back in front of the driver.
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In most cars speedo & tacho size/position is of the following 1. equal speedo & tacho symmetrically positioned Most of the time you'll look at speedo than tacho so you need to move your eyeballs sidewise
I'm not sure I would agree with that. If the instruments are large enough and the needles fat / bright enough, peripheral vision (and familiarity) is perfectly adequate in most cases. In any case with one of these layouts, assuming the speedo is on the right hand side, the important part of the scale (0-70/80 ish) is only just off the centre of the panel anyway.
What is irritiating is when you get into a different car with the speedo and rev counter transposed.
Cheers
DP
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Personally I prefer a well designed and centrally positioned rotary dial. The two dial arrangement leads to poor visibility if you use the 10 to 2 hands position and many steering wheels encourage this
But I am not sure if this is the best - has any research been done on the response times to various dials - the aircraft industry seems like rotary dials. But I'm not sure if this is good enough now; it used to be OK to just glance at the speedo but now much greater accuracy is required. We regularly use the cruise control in built up areas that we do not know; this means setting the speed very close to 30mph etc so recognition times are very important
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"They set up dials, displays and guages in groups, and all needles or indicators point the same way at normal."
There's nothing more satisfying than getting all five dials to point in the same direction. I was driving in about -10 at the weekend, oil and water were way over to the left at 50 degrees celsius, no petrol so that was way over to the left, about 45 mph - way over to the left. The only thing spoiling it was the rev counter at 2000 was almost horizontal. So I dropped it into 3rd gear - revs rise, problem solved. Absolutely fantastic, total peace of mind - until I had to fill up.
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Mildly surprised that some people don't seem to use or even want a rev counter. My days of tearing around at "Mr Toad" velocities are long gone but I find the rev counter really useful, particularly in a turbo diesel where keeping it in an optimum and fairly narrow rev band is the key to a smooth drive.
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the rev counter really useful particularly in a turbo diesel where keeping it in an optimum and fairly narrow rev band is the key to a smooth drive.
Yup, and you can feel that - you dont need a rev counter to tell you.
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And you can also make a fair guess at your speed but having an instrument to confirm is quite handy.
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What you want is a Saab dashboard, central speedo with 5mph graduations and wider gaps between increments up to 90mph:
snipurl.com/1xht7
Dont understand the problem myself, but I suppose some are better than others. Our two cars have different layouts but its not a problem.
What did cars have before rev counters? AFAIR rubbish like mid 80s cooking Fiestas and Metros had a massive gaudy clock in the instrument binnacle; now that was a waste of space.
;o)
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>>What did cars have before rev counters? AFAIR rubbish like mid 80s cooking Fiestas >>and Metros had a massive gaudy clock in the instrument binnacle; now that was a >>waste of space.
I'll take the clock, thanks.
Clk Sec
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I remember the base spec mkV Escorts had a big graphic of the car with a few warning lights dotted around it. This was not the useful door ajar / lights on / tyre pressure warning device found on cars today, but a simple bit of white decal work to use up the space where the rev counter would have been on a higher spec model. The warning lights were just the standard issue idiot lights found on any car dashboard.
My mk1 Sierra had the fuel and temperature gauges where the rev counter would have been on a higher model - in fact the instrument panel looked completely different between low and high spec models. Different typeface, lighting, needles and layout.
Cheers
DP
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Yup and you can feel that - you dont need a rev counter to tell you.
Well up to a point you can feel (or hear). laden and on an incline the noise and feel deceive while the rev counter tells the truth. Squeezing the last ft/lb of torque out the Berlingo is a neccessity on Alpine passes (or even Scottish ones).
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........ a turbo diesel where keeping it in an optimum and fairly narrow rev band is the key to a smooth drive.
Yet another reason for me not to buy a diesel! I just want to drive my car, and not have to keep my eyes transfixed on the rev counter.
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And rev counters (Has anyone ever thought about the stupidity inherent in the marking "x 100 rpm?" on the rev counter by the way?) marked 10 20 30 just the same as the neighbouring speedo can cause confusion in an unfamiliar (hired borrowed) car.
Hear! hear! That's one of my pet peeves too! Give me units of 1000rpm any day.
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In Automatics, what is the purpose of rev counter?
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Mk II Jaguar. Big Smiths dials, white on black. Perfect.
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"In Automatics, what is the purpose of rev counter?"
Same as in manuals, it's to see how fast the engine's spinning.
I drive an auto and use it all the time.
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Just had a look at Rich 9-3's link to a SAAB dashboard. I'd almost forgotten about that turbo boost gauge. Come to think of it, a lot of Italian sportscars in the 70s had dials for oil temperature, level and pressure. What a lot of lovely dials to distract us from the road ahead, especially the ones so thoughtfully fitted down by the handbrake! (Remember the Scirocco?) (In most Italian cars of the time, a "distance to next breakdown" dial would have been much more useful :-)
Reminds me of Ambrose Bierce's "The Devil's dictionary":
"BAROMETER, n. An ingenious instrument which indicates what kind of weather we are having."
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