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Driving home last night in a downpour of sleet and high winds (and some of the best sheet lightning I've ever seen!) an empty wheelie bin standing at the end of a Farm drive was suddenly picked up by the wind and flew across the road inches in front of me. Had I been a second later It would certainly have inflicted a serious dent to my car, and where I wondered, would I stand if it had? Is it up to the house holder to make sure that such items are properly restrained ?
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It would be the householder I'd be looking to squeeze (personally)
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I've often wondered who would be responsible if someone tripped over a binbag outside your house on the pavement, having been directed by local council to leave bags out on collection day by 06:00.
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As I say go for the person who put it there in the first instance.
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In reality, it would be hard to put a case against bin owner! He might argue that heavy wind is an act of God!
So, your insurer won't be able to get cost back, result NCB lost!
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In reality it would be hard to put a case against bin owner!
The bin owner would usually be the local authority, which no doubt complicates things.
The householders insurance might pay (houesholders liability to third parties) but they may try to avoid due the bin's ownership, local authority instructions to leave it outside, act of God etc.
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Act of God ? Ain't suing Him. It all comes down to stuff like reasonably forsee etc etc each case on its merits !
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 09/01/2008 at 15:08
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Act of God ? Ain't suing Him. It all comes down to stuff like reasonably forsee etc etc each case on its merits !
Agreed, you might not be able to forsee, for instance, a tile flying of a roof (unless in bad repair) though a wheelybin flying around in a gale is a different matter.
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So your insurer won't be able to get cost back result NCB lost!
Unless you have a protected NCD.
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I've often wondered who would be responsible if someone tripped over a binbag outside your house on the pavement having been directed by local council to leave bags out on collection day by 06:00.
Our council (and I would imagine all other councils) say the bags or wheelie bins should be left at the edge of your property, but nevertheless still on your property. In my opinion, if the bag has been left outside the boundary of the property then the householder is at fault.
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PU you are acting on behalf of the OP who had the said dusty bin through his windscreen.
It came from my house. You post your claim for damges in my letter box.
I can prove to you that
A: Its not mine - its supplied by the council.
B: It is safe to assume that as A: is fact, and that there were no instructions to state that I had to take no other precations than to keep it on my property - I am therefore not culpable and I direct your claim to the council.
C: the council can prove that the Bin is fit for purpose in that it is stable under all expected weather conditions. They can also prove that the weather was exceptional. Therefore they are not culpable.
D: you can try posting it to God, who WAS responsible for the wind and therefore culpable but his legal department shut some 2007 years ago.
Therefore PU, in the kindest possible way, and no offence intended, you can take your claim on behalf of your client and you can shove it up your filling cabinet. You can then instruct your client that his no claims bonus is in the shredder next to your filling cabinet.
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A - Immaterial if the householder put it there - doesn't matter who owns it
B - You could use that to try and sue the council after your court case.
C - Possibly - but unlikely
D - Some may argue that its pretty active, but He's a forgiving God and only did overt smiting in the Old Testament - In fact had AE's scenario been played out it may have been a bit of smiting on the side.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 09/01/2008 at 16:50
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D: you can try posting it to God who WAS responsible for the wind and therefore culpable but his legal department shut some 2007 years ago.
I don't remember a legal department. He was, however, well-served for wet fish, clothing, groceries and - latterly - tents and medicine.
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D: you can try posting it to God who WAS responsible for the wind>>
Which god?
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It's the responsibility of the council and the contractor, unless the bin was used differently to their stipulations, in which case it may possibly be the responsibility of the householder, if he was negligent. You would have probably had to, I suspect, make an insurance claim (assuming that they'd countenance a claim in these circumstances).
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I think this is an interesting question. Similarly, as I've driven down a beautiful beech-lined road through Thetford Forest, I've wondered who would be responsibe if a branch fell and injured the old Mondy (or worse!).
Istr being told that the third party insurance for my house covered me for "e.g. a tile being blown off the roof and hitting the milkman/postman etc".
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In fact there may be Criminal liability for domestic residents under the Occupier's Liability Acts
1957 and 1984 and if its a farmer's property under Health and Safety Act (Farming being a business and a workplace under this Act) Funnily enough my mind wandered on to this particular theme yesterday watching Denbighshire's refuse wagon collect the wheely from the place I'm staying at, they emptied it (it was blowing a hoolie) they laid both this house and next door's bins down on their sides as leaving them upright would have been stupid. In all likelihood their operational risk assessments demand that they do this in very windy weather.
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>>they laid both this house and next door's bins down on their sides as leaving them upright would have been stupid
And what happens when you got a bad back from bending down picking one up?
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You sue the Council. I hate myself for saying this but if anything happens to you on someone else's land (business wise) now the first thing you do is ask to see the H&S Risk Assessment for the activity, a lot of the time there is either no risk assessment or the activity is taking place outside that RA. Its a charter for litigation. I had a client who was struck from above in a well known Supermarket (no not Tesco), she injured her neck (quite genuinely). The shelf stackers should have closed the aisle whilst they were doing it. This was the documented Control Measure, they didn't.....
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The law is supposed to uphold that which is 'reasonable'. I think this usually means that the plaintiff has to prove that the defendant acted unreasonably, unless the facts speak for themselves ('res ipsa loquitur').
A Mrs Ward slipped on some spilt yogurt in Tesco back in the 1960s and in this case Tesco had to prove that the aisle was cleaned reasonably often (they couldn't).
PU, you're a solicitor; I'm only an accountant who sometimes teaches law, so I'm happy to be corrected - but wouldn't a wheelie-bin hitting your car be unusual enough for 'res ipsa loquitur' to apply? If so, either the council or the farmer who put it where it was would have to prove that they weren't negligent. Wouldn't ownership of the bin be irrelevant?
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Motoring link?
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Yes... the car that nearly got dented. ;-)
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Motoring link?
Dear Old Navy, should you wish (studies fingernails) to post a question with little or no motoring link, the "I Have A Question" thread is appropriate. At the top, it says this:
"In this thread you may ask any question for which you need help, advice,
suggestions or whatever.
It does not need to be motoring related. In fact, in this thread it should not be."
I hope that is of some help to you.
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Dear Fotherington, My apologies, I was responding to a recent well deserved slapped wrist from pugugly and pologirl.
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I noticed. It was only a slapette, surely, so I thought I'd point out the "IHAQ" thread, where (presumably) no slapette would've been forthcoming. I was not trying to get at you! No offence intended. Here endeth my contributions to this...
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Motoring link?
Bin and gone.
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Yes it would. But Health and Safety stuff has become totally unreasonable and has closed gaps.
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I'd think that in the weather conditions such as described by the OP, flying bins come under the same heading as falling trees.
Blame God.
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It's the responsibility of the council and the contractor unless the bin was used differently to their stipulations in which case it may possibly be the responsibility of the householder
Very few householders abide by councils' instructions that the bins should be sited at the edge of their property, and not beyond.
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so if someone trips or falls over your rubbish bags/ wheelie bin, that are on your property you can have them for trespass then?
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so if someone trips or falls over your rubbish bags/ wheelie bin that are on your property you can have them for trespass then?
It would depend on why they were on your property,if they were delivering something then it is your responsibilty to ensure it is safe for them to enter.Having access and a letterbox constitutes an implicit invitation to deliver,even if it is junk such as pizza menus,so if,in the dark, they fell over the rubbish bag you left on your path,they may well have a case against you.
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Ok how about this common scenario
Its bin day. I put my wheelie bin out on the edge of my property. Bin men come and empty it and leave it half on my drive and half on the pavement.
Scroats come out of school, and in horseplay push bin inot middle of road.
Car hits bin.
Who is responsible?
I could argue that as the bin is not mine, as soon as it leaves my property (be it wind or scroat) it is no longer my responsibility.
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Had this been a bin, laden then this might be construed as an act of terrorism.
Thankfully, it was empty :-)
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good point Oldsock, i'l ki'der remember that next time i put my "errol flynn " out for the refuse collectors
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