Hello All,
Vaguely thinking of changing the Mondeo, what is putting me off is that the p-ex price is not great, the car it is worth more to me that I am likely to get for it, though I am not up for selling it privately, I would rather drive in one car and drive out another.
While I am mulling that over I have another quandary, I am (again vaguely) thinking of an X-Type, would really quite like a 2.2d estate though I reckon the spec I want would be more than I really want to spend.
Its not quite bangernomics though having a 5.5 year old car that has done 125k and drives pretty much as new has lead me to believe in running an older car that has already largely depreciated.
So I am thinking possibly of a slightly older V6 saloon, not the 2.1, I have driven one, it lacks torque, the 2.5 is much more flexible yet alone the 3.0. I am working from home now so mileage/MPG less of an issue than it was, I have done 12k in the last 12 months.
SE or Sport - I am not too fussed, depends on the spec of the individual car.
The question is manual or auto on this car, the manual is 5 speed which is fine, not too high a top ratio, and I think the Jaguar "J" gate auto offers a Tiptronic type function?
Any thoughts / experiences / comments?
Regards.
Edited by cheddar on 07/01/2008 at 13:26
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Funnily enough.................................!
I had a test drive in an X-type 2.2 sport estate at the weekend.......very nice indeed, but, the same dealer had a Mondeo 3 ST220 estate in as well. Test drove that and was smitten. Just trying to make the mpg numbers work on my mileage though ! ( 40k + pa )
Only possible justifaction is that I could pay a lot less for the Ford but take the hit on fuel. Still doesn't add up but well.....maybe !
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Think I may have invented a new word to describe the feeling one gets from buying a car you can not realy justify "justifaction" Sorry folks !
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IMO it doesnt work on 40k p/a, an ST220 or X-Type V6 would cost you around £3k extra per year in fuel, that is £250 per month!! I would not pay that much extra for the difference between a 2.0 or 2.2d and a V6.
You can buy a good car for £250 a month!
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You've been talking to my wife Cheddar haven't you ? ;-)
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You're like married to Cheddar ?
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LOL !
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Cheddar: The question is manual or auto on this car...I think the Jaguar "J" gate auto offers a Tiptronic type function?
IMHO, Jaguar = auto. Unless you're getting all the toys, why change from what you have? And if you want manual, I expect a Mondeo ST will entertain more than an X type.
I'm not sure if the X-type has a J gate, and in any event I don't think the J gate has tiptronic. Also, IMHO since getting an auto BMW, you'll use the tiptronic once, think "why bother" and put it back in Drive forever more. I did.
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Correction: Jaguar.ie shows the 07/08 model X with a J gate and what appears to be tiptronic +/- shift on the left-hand side of the gate.
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if you want manual I expect a Mondeo ST will entertain more than an X type.
It will, it is known that the 4 & 5 door Mondeos are a little sharper due to having multilink rear suspension, the X-Type is based on the Mondeo estate in this regard though is still a tidy handler and AWD traction is handy.
I'm not sure if the X-type has a J gate >>
Apparently it does and accordingly I guess it must be Tip.
since getting an auto BMW you'll use the tiptronic once think "why bother"
I have done a fair few miles in a Tip 530i and used the Tip function out of choice.
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Shoespy - an LPG conversion is one possible route!
M or A anyone?
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"Think I may have invented a new word to describe the feeling one gets from buying a car you can not realy justify "justifaction" Sorry folks !"
Reckon "justifaction" is if it works and "justifiction" is if you want to convince the wife that it works!
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V.G. Cheddar ! ;-)
I would say having had a variety of both manuals and autos over the years that on balance, if you really like driving in its purest sense, that manual would be my choice.
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It's a diesel v petrol argument - drive both and see.
I had a manual A3 2.0TDi 170 last week for a couple of days and I was so glad to get back into my DSG equipped version - the manual box, coupled with a heavy clutch and notchy gearchange just didn't seem to suit the car.
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It's a diesel v petrol argument>>
Thanks but its not, see the first post, its a petrol manual v petrol auto question.
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As they don't do an auto diesel I already knew this having read the first post ;-)
I was suggesting that the answer is the same as when someone posts saying "should I get a petrol or a diesel version of X car" - the answer is drive them both and see which you prefer.
I test drove the manual and the DSG versions of the A3 and DSG won hands down. If I decided which to buy to purely on reading forums I still wouldn't have decided as you get opinions from both ends of the spectrum.
After driving a manual X type and an auto one only you will know which you prefer.
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As they don't do an auto diesel I already knew this having read the first post ;-)
As it happens they have just launched an interesting auto version of the 2.2d though this is too new so doesn't count.
>>I was suggesting ....>>
Sorry, I see what you mean.
After driving a manual X type and an auto one only you will know which you prefer. >>
Agreed though I am intersted in other's opinions and experiences.
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check the ride quality of the Sport versus the SE....and... unless you particularly want the better looking bigger wheels on an SE, consider the 16" variant
wife's car is SE with 17" wheels and i reckon the 16" would be about right, as 17" is a little bit firmer than you'd imagine, albeit pretty accomplished...and the handling for an estate is remarkable. I wouldn't want a Sport, too harsh a ride.
i test drove the 2.5 auto and 3.0 auto X Type when considering buying one new (5 years ago... and ended up buying a second hand S Type becauase it had more toys and had taken a hit on the new depreciation). There's more difference IMO between the two than you'd imagine and personally if you're going to have a petrol V6 i'd have the 3 litre.
I wouldn't discount the diesel though, depending on your needs (i know the auto is not yet out) because the following are comparisons between my car and wife's MPG figures (2.0 D SE estate and S Type 3.0 SE auto...which won't be too different to an X Type 3.0 auto)
on choke in town, lots of stop/start...................33.5 X/15.5 S
warmed up in town, more flowing roads............36.5/18 ish
very hard driving on m/way, in a hurry..............38-39/ 22-24ish eventually
fairly swift on m/way, but not too bad..................42-44/ 26.5
legal limit on m/way, not in hurry.......................50+/ 33-34
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Thanks Westpig,
>>I wouldn't discount the diesel though>>
I would like a 2.2d estate, manual, though have ruled it out for reasons given in first post, if I was going to go for another diesel saloon/hatch I would probably go for a Mondeo over an X-Type cos it is 5dr and is a bit sharper than the 2WD X-Type. However as said on 12k p/a diesel economy is not so much of an issue and AWD has some appeal so I err towards a manual 3.0 though will try to drive an auto.
Still just an idea though am arranging test drives.
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Cheddar, have you actually sat in one? I did a Figaro a few years back at a country pile sponsored by the local Jag dealer, and was amazed how tight the X-type was from the driver´s seat. Amazed, and a bit disappointed. Didn´t drive it though :-(
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When selecting the previous Mondeo I found the X-Type a little "claustraphobic". It's based on the Mondeo but the driver's seat felt everything too close. Never test drove as never got that far.
Personally if mileage low, and now I have had the Mazda6 for a few months I would look at a Mazda6 MPS ;-) Or maybe a 2.3 Sport. A wild card car for you... I am unsure off the top of my head which model came with auto but that's probably the 2.0 petrol.
Edited by rtj70 on 07/01/2008 at 18:41
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>>Cheddar, have you actually sat in one?>>
I have driven a couple in the past.
>>Mazda6 MPS ;-) Or maybe a 2.3 Sport. A wild card car for you... I am unsure off the top of my head which model came with auto >>
The 6 MPS is interesting though I think I would prefer another Mondeo, an ST or Ghia X 3.0 though the X-Type is just that bit different.
I am not after an auto as such just opinions on the auto v manual in the Jag, there is only 0.5mpg on the combined cycle between them.
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The X type seats are now bigger than they used to be. the X-type wins every time on looks.Always turns heads. The auto compliments a big engine car but isn't everyones choice. The 2.2 diesel has huge amounts of torque which makes overtaking thrilling & my Pal has a 2.5 AWD auto which is no match for the diesel especially on long inclines & accelerating on motorways. He also complains how he gets 300 miles on a tank whereas I get 600 miles but i know you said MPG isn't an issue. I have had a 2.2 mondeo but the jag has the edge on performance & noise as jaguar refined the injection .
Jaguar stands up well in a crash test! I hope you liked that one Cheddar?
Inj Doc
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>> Jaguar stands up well in a crash test! I hope you liked that one Cheddar? Inj Doc
IJ, I replied to your e-mail, perhaps you didnt get the reply? I received the pic of you current car though not the crashed one you mentioned, perhaps send it again, it would be interesting.
As I have said a 2.2d estate would appeal though not in mind for reasons mentioned in the first post.
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Hi Cheddar. Sorry didn't get reply. I will forward with e-mail address. When you see the one converted to a hatchback it will make your eyes water.
the new auto just being released has had the torque reduced from 400nm @ 1900rpm to 320 ! huge reduction I asume to give the autobox a chance. the fun with the 2.2 is its shear grunt for a diesel. It is a little OTT as I have experienced on a motorway in the wet if you accelerate the TC light flashes even at 70+!. the BMW 330d produces 410nm at 3000rpm so this gives you an idea of how grunty it is.
Doc
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Hi Cheddar. Sorry didn't get reply. >>
Just resent it IJ.
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Presumably the autobox on the X-type is a conventional torque-converter one? If so, personally I'd want 3 litres to go with it (2.5 is fine for a CVT as with the Audi A4: a 2.0 or 2.1 petrol will be sluggish whatever sort of autobox it is).
Is it worth trying an X-type, then trying a Mondeo to be absolutely sure that the extra that the Jaguar offers is what you want from a car?
I say that because I went through a similar thought-process a few months ago. I thought I wanted to go back to an Audi A4 - and would have done if the 2.5 hadn't been too expensive - but found that I just couldn't justify the 2.0 TDI over the Golf estate with the same engine.
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Gonna trya 3.0 manual tomorra.
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Hi, i changed from Mondeo to 2.5 Manual (2003). Gorgeous car, full kit, luxury, and stands out vs similar german marques, but i must say urban fuel consumption is poor, probably ~22mpg, but 30mpg extraurban. some criticism though, keyfob died (but replaced on warranty) and also random fuel leak and had to be towed back from wales to London...so bottom line is i am not sure british engineering is as solid as the germans. that said, the manual 2.5 is VERY QUICK, and provides much joy! nevertheless, will sell this month due to my increased mileage pa for work...good luck
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This site wiil not be the same without cheddar's diesel Mondeo.
You aren't worried about all this DMF stuff, are you?
I drove a manual 3.0 X type once, I loved it except for the lack of headroom.
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This site wiil not be the same without cheddar's diesel Mondeo.
Dont worry it is not a forgone conclusion, just testing the water.
Not worried about DMF etc, rather 10 to 12k p/a does not make a diesel a must as 35k p/a did when I got the TDCi, though as I have said I would really like a newish 2.2d estate, though I think I would rather get (and I reckon would enjoy) a slightly older petrol that has taken most if its depreciation in someone else's hands.
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worth checking out the X-type forum & the jaguar forum. Good tips on what to look out for especially with the auto boxes & AWD systems
12000 miles per year at avg of 22mpg over 3 years at £1.06p ltr =£7874.0 !!
12000 miles per year at avg of 48mpg over 3 years at £1.06p ltr = £3609.00
Saving £4265.00 driving diesel
so petrol Jag will be cheaper to buy 2nd hand but diesel will always be more sought after 2nd hand & Road tax is a lot cheaper £138.0per year & insurance is lower on Diesel.
Enjoy the test drive. Don't forget if its pre 2006 it will have smaller seats. Try & avoid full leather as its slippery & tires quickly
Inj Doc
crash tested by dummies
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Thanks IJ
My calc:
1000 miles / month @ 27mpg / £1.05/ltr = £176
1000 miles / month @ 46mpg / £1.05/ltr = £103
Road tax:
My Mondeo / 2.2 diesel X-Type 151-165g/km £140
Petrol 3.0 X-Type over 185g/km (pre 23/03/06) £205
Insurance cost for 3.0 V6 is little more than the Mondeo.
Monthly difference = £79.
40k ish 3/4 year old 3.0 saloon would be around £5k less to buy than a 2 year old 30k 2.2d estate.
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...don't forget to factor in the extra smile on your face - I've had a 2.2D estate for 18 months now and still get a buzz from driving it - instant responsiveness when you put your right foot down.
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Hi Timbo13
I second that1 there arn't many cars out there with that shear grunt from down low. I smile every time I drive mine & don't want to part with it. i haven't driven another diesel with such responsivenes. the 2.2 mondeo isn't so responsive. shame the new auto is de-tuned
Doc
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are there any noticeable benefits from de-tuning the auto (apart from not breaking the gearbox)
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I belive it purely to save the auto box as the problem all along with the x-type diesel was to find an auto box strong enough for reliability. So now reduced from 400nm at 1900rpm to 320nm quite a reduction .Probably very smooth & refined but I like the shear grunt as it make me smile every time.
Doc
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IJ, perhaps you could look at my Q in the X-Type Impressions thread, thanks.
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