I would like people's opionion on the following:
My daughter is nearly 19 years old has been driving for nearly 2 years with 2 years NCB due to accelerated bonus. Last week she had an accident due to black ice on the road, her dad was a passenger and can vouch that it was road conditions that caused the accident, Police were in attendance and the road was that slippy you could hardly stand and one of the poice officers actually fell. We also discovered that there had been at least 4 cars off on the same stretch of road within a small timescale.
Her car has been declared a write off and she has lost her 2 years NCB, her Insurance premium was previously £400 but on getting quotes with her claim this has now increased to about £1200.
I think it is a bit unfair as the accident was not really her fault and the insurance premium is not much less than the cost of a new car, is there any way out of this situation?
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 25/12/2007 at 20:30
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No, nothing you can do. Its called a "no claims bonus" not a "no blame bonus"
The black ice was not driving the car.
Sorry - its very clear cut and dried issue as no one else was involved.
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< Ulla>
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If the incident was in a built up area, consider having a pop at the local Council.
Duty of care, blah, waffle, lack of gritting.. Uniformed Police witness to state of the road.
Maybe.
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Was it a road which the local council have on their gritting and salting schedule? If it was had they done the work? If they had how long was it done before the accident? In the end you are back to what AE says = Tough Luck.
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Gosh, this takes us back some years to when we'd try so hard to make our way up the no claims ladder only to find a slippery (no pun intended) snake waiting for us, to knock us back down again.
I'm fully in agreement with AE, tough as it is its just one of those awful things that happen.
The silver lining is that she is ok, and with black ice that could have been so different.
My only thought's, was the car worth more than the cost of gaining back her no claims will be; i suppose its too late now and the ins. co. have paid out.
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Just bad luck I'm afraid. Any persuit of a claim via the local authority or Highways Agency will be a waste of time as they have expensive taxpayer-funded laywers and she hasnt.
I take it she hit another car?
If she had hit a tree for example I would have just kept quiet and swallowed the cost of a replacement vehicle as it would have been far cheaper to have done that than involve the insurance company.
I am surprised however that a 19 year old inexperienced driver can insure any vehicle for £400. Going back erm, 20 years I paid £230 TPFT for a Mk 1 Fiesta, my first car,
I lived in a good area and the car was kept on a drive at night.
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Happened to SWMBO when she first started to drive, black ice, off the road and into a field.
It never entered our heads that it could be anything other than her fault. The advantage though was it was a cheap learner car and I fitted a new wing, new door, straightened the bumper etc, (from a breakers) and other bits without needing to claim.
In fact, even now with newer vehicles we don`t claim for anything and I put a £500 excess on (both) cars, full no claims and the comp insurance is now around £170.
On the other hand I know someone who is always claiming, radio/side glass, scratch on the bumper ect and have almost priced themselves off the road with insurance.
Sorry to hear about the accident, perhaps it will raise awareness for the future. I think a lot of new drivers have no conception at all about black ice.
Regards
Edited by oilrag on 25/12/2007 at 21:07
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It never entered our heads that it could be anything other than her fault. The advantage though was it was a cheap learner car and I fitted a new wing new door straightened the bumper etc (from a breakers) and other bits without needing to claim.
Whatever happened to having to inform the Ins Co. even if one didn't claim?
Best reg's..........MD.
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Unfortunatley new drivers are very very unaware of how icy conditions will affect the vehicle they are driving.
The no claims bonus is now history, try telephoning the insurance company for the next quote, talk to a human dont just do it online, there is a slim possibility you will get 20%, maybe more off when you explain the situation, fingers crossed.
Trust me, my daught just did exactly the same thing, its live n learn, if yours is lucky she can afford another half decent motor, if not its time for a banger or a loan.
Our daught was only tpft so didnt involve the insurance co, luckily got nearly £1000 for the wrecked motor and no bumped up future insurance and no loss of NCB (no claim, no blame).
Good Luck
CBG
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Drink Lager, Talk Piffle,
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>Sorry to hear about the accident, perhaps it will raise awareness for the future. I think a lot of new drivers have no >conception at all about black ice.
Exactly. The collision was not the fault of the black ice. Daughter is very lucky - firstly that she wasn't seriously hurt and secondly that she's learned a valuable lesson early on that she'll probably never forget.
Edited by PoloGirl on 25/12/2007 at 22:04
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You may wish to try a specialist where you are more likely to come across a "Human Underwritter" rather than a computer which works of a formula. Sorry to hear about her NCD - if one lesson it teaches us all is black ice is deadly.
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Black ice is common at this time of year, it's a natural phenomenom. When air temperatures are below 5 degrees a lot of extra care needs to be taken by all road users. It's always a driver's responsibility to drive within the limitations of the conditions.
Insurers offer a discount for not claiming.
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Thanks for all your comments, we probably should have thought earlier about not claiming insurance and cover the cost of replacement car ourselves but didnt realise there would be such a jump in insurance premium. If we didnt claim insurance would you still declare accident on future insurance quotes?
I understand all about black ice, as we live in North West of Scotland and my husband who as I said was passenger at the time is an experienced HGV driver but I thought it unfair as the road were obviously not treated.
Its not just inexperinced young drivers that have accidents on black ice, the drivers in the other cars couldn't all have been young and inexperienced!! But the outcome is that my daughter probably wont be able to afford another car to gain any experince.
But anyway as mentioned in previous posts, we are very grateful that no one was seriously injured.
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The small print states that you are expected to notify your insurers of any incident. However as has been pointed out its a No Claims Bonus therefore it should stand that if there is no claim then the bonus should be intact.
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Fullchat
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Can you be sure though they won`t increase the base price of the insurance despite leaving the no claims bonus intact?
No argument of course as its in the small print.
Would you self report for other incidents though such as accidentally exceeding the speed limit ?
My thought is to think really hard before you pick up the phone to the insurance company for any reason. It all seemingly goes onto a big disseminated (possibly unsecure) database.
Is the insurance company seen as a `friend and regular contact` up in North West Scotland?
Down here in West Yorkshire`s grim cities there is a tendency to keep your head down.
(What a generalisation ;)
Regards
Edited by oilrag on 26/12/2007 at 07:05
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Fc....if you did a wing mirror in the work car...would you tell your own insurer?...:-)
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Good question!! I have tended to disassociate what happens during works time to what happens in my own time. Maybe not strictly correct.
I have never had a fault blame incident whilst at work which would warrant an insurance claim. As far as I am aware minor scratches and bumps are not claimed for through the insurance company but are dealt with through the fleet budget.
Any big ones have been deliberate TPAC manouvres which have been claimed for. But they have not been 3rd party claims. I suppose I should declare to my insurance company. I just feel that the circumstances are unique and should not impact on my own insurance. I would anticipate big problems by declaring to an insurance company; say on renewal, "Well yes I have been involved in 3 collisions, they were my fault. It was deliberate". I feel that under the circumstances some things are best left unsaid.
However if I had been involved in a blameworthy incident involving my negligence then I would be bound to disclose.
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Fullchat
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I am friendly with a Police Business Manager (not an Officer) he tells me that all repairs are funded through budgets, the insurance cover they have on the fleet does not cover damage to vehicles merely damage to other objects. That's why he's not a happy bunny when an Officer crunches a car.
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You should declare the accident to all future insurers - it asks did you have any accidents, not did you have any accidents that were your fault.
GF's mum has a huge jump in her insurance now, an extra £200 now, after 2 accidents which weren't her fault and which didn't affect her no-claims bonus. If you have accidents, you are seen as a risky driver to insure; no ifs or buts.
It's unfortunate, but just the wa the system works.
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Mike Farrow
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Just got a call from my Mum to say that my Brother has wrecked his 4 year old Caterham on black ice this morning.
He was apparently driving very sedately, the other C7 in front just held on but he lost it and kit a kerb, bollard and tree.
As they waited for recovery they witnessed ordinary saloon cars having the same problems even though there was a clear view of a smashed up car in front of them.
At the end of the day though it's just bent metal. He escaped with a bumped head.
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What part of the Country was that ? (Hope he's ok BTW)
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That was in Amersham, Bucks PU.
Thanks, he is ok just understandably gutted about his car, it was his pride and joy.
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Sorry to hear of that, and also to the OP, but as mentioned it's only bent metal and everyone's ok. I imagine a Caterham could be quite a handful on slippery roads though. Are you sure it was ice? I've been on the bike forums lately and there's much mention of the latest road dressings causing as much problem as ice itself. Apparently some councils are using a molasses mix instead of traditional salt grit which is supposed to stick to the road better, but the downside being it forms a very slippery slime on the road surface. I daresay it's cheaper too.
Generally speaking, I've found these damp, salty conditions very suspect, even the car's had a couple of minor slips, let alone a bike. I guess the lesson is even though a road is treated, it doesn't mean there's plenty of grip available.
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Anyway Nonie, I think I would just try to start out again with a very cheap car and put the money into the insurance for a few years instead.
That`s how we (mates) did it all those years ago. Just buying a runner and a 12 month MOT really. It was years before any of us could even consider comprehensive insurance.
Hope the New Year brings better luck.
Regards
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with my car, wife's car, m/c and classic car all likely to have increased premiums if i claim for anything, i've set myself a figure of £1000 minimum before i'd claim...and even then i'd assess it
i learnt my lesson claiming for a broken window and stolen stereo 10 myrs ago....cost me an arm and a leg over the following years
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I'm with Westpig here. I've a car and two bikes, so any claim will clobber all three (although the two bikes are on the same policy) I've bumped the voluntary excess up because it makes a noticeable difference to the premium and what I've saved doing this should cover any incident from now on. Car and bikes of no huge value, so I'm not overly concerned about them getting wrecked. I would probably have gone to TPF&T but that costs more for the car and not much saved on the bikes and FC is handy for windscreen cover and 3rd party on other vehicles. Hmmm, my car policy says "driving other vehicles" not "other cars" - handy!.
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Sorry to hear of bump and glad she is ok. car is but a bit of metal !
However, valuable lesson for all ?
Losing control of a car at any speed (including under 5mph) for any reason, is viewed by advanced drivers as "driving too fast for the conditions".
Its not meant as a lecture, just an aid for the learning curve.
Probably worth spending some time on the net getting quotes for her for various cheap old cars to start again with?
My daughter is of a similar age and she started with an old fiesta and has now progressed onto a middle aged clio. Insurance isnt cheap but its affordable. She has already learnt that the car is a bit of metal, of no real value; whilst the insurance is golden and to be looked after at all costs. Its only really there in case she causes some extreme financial cost, otherwise car goes off to scrappy and we find another. But then she doesnt get to choose and untrendy is not cool. So bigger incentive to stay accident free.
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"the car is a bit of metal, of no real value; whilst the insurance is golden and to be looked after at all costs"
Yorkiebar,
Our philosophy exactly, well said ;)
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But then she doesnt get to choose and untrendy is not cool. So bigger incentive to stay accident free.
Similar in our household. Son was a bit despondent that he would end up with an old AX like his sister, but someone at college has told him it's "retro". So he's been happier since then.
BTW I don't know why loss of NCB features on the forum still. It's not like claims are cheaper according to circumstance. The metal is still bent and it still needs fixing.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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i learnt my lesson claiming for a broken window and stolen stereo 10 myrs ago....cost me an arm and a leg over the following years
I had 3 breakins to the garden shed and the 7 x Mountain Bikes disappeared. Ins Co paid out but my premium climbed by £300 / year - it took me 5/6 yrs to get other Cos that would cover me
Got rid of the Mountain Bikes, got rid of the kids (now adults) and Ins premiums for 2 x cars and 1 x house & contents is under £700 - I was paying that for House & contents after the burglaries and £400-£500 for each car as they were named drivers.
For Insurance claim payouts you could read it as "hire purchase" as the hit you hard if you make a claim.
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Well, maybe the ins. co. will decide it's not your fault really & then re-distribute the extra costs of the repair to all other policy holders.. Does that sound fair?
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