My Honda Accord 2.0 I-VTEC is due for it's 2nd service in a few weeks so I thought I'd ring around for a few prices today. Apparently it is due for a "major service" - oil, filters (air/oil/air con), spark plugs and a general check over. I tried 5 local main dealers - the most expensive was £350 and the cheapest was £245. The cheapest dealer even offered a free loan car and offered to collect / drop off our car, so I guess they will get the business.
I was told that during a major service on a VTEC engine the valve clearences are checked, meaning the rocker cover has to come off. This is a new one on me - anyone else heard of this ?
Edited by Seant on 03/12/2007 at 20:03
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Do a Forum search, at least two threads in the last months.
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That's weird - I was in a Honda dealer today and saw a leaflet promising consistent prices for servicing across all the dealers. Maybe it didn't cover "services", but things like timing belts etc. were there.
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Can't for the life of me find it now,,,,,,,!
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I understand the fixed price deal (honda happiness) relates to a list of typical repairs such as replacing brakes, clutches etc. I had a leaflet from Honda about it recently, the prices are as folows:
front brake pads £85
Front brake pads/discs £215
Timing belt £200
Battery £65
MOT £45
Rear silencer £125
My local Skoda dealer quoted £250 to change the cambelt on my Octavia, so £200 seems more than reasonable. Fortunately my Accord has a chain !
Edited by Seant on 03/12/2007 at 22:22
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Honda servicing seems to be in a bit of a mess at the moment. My local main dealer has been very cagey about the 'Honda Happiness' programme when asked, and when my Accord was due a 54,000 mile service the other week, they suggested that I booked an 'Option Four' service, instead.
I pressed to find what the difference was between that and an official main dealer service - 'it's just cheaper' I was told. Do you use the same parts? Fluids? 'Absolutely'.
It was cheaper, too, quite a bit cheaper, so I took their advice.
Only afterwards did it occur to me to ask whether they'd checked the valve clearances. It turns out they didn't. On a V-TEC engine?
I'm surprised at a main dealer - particularly a Honda main dealer - doing this. I'm surprised Honda lets them. If I'd been told the difference, I'd have paid the extra.
The next service will be with a trusted independent.
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I have just had my 2.4 petrol serviced and price was £327.64 to be exact and covered the valve clearance adjustment. VTECs don't have hydraulic tappets and require adjustment every 25K (On a Toyota vvti engine it's 60K). I have my doubts that it was carried out cos the car has only done 11K and they only need adjusting at 25K but of course they assure me it needed doing and they did it.
I don't know of any Jap brand that does long life servicing like the Germans and that is something I agree with although as Badger says Honda need to get their servicing sorted across the delaers. I had the opportunity to review some design documents from a well known Jap brand and the emphasis on reliability, durability and customer care was amazing - they really go to town on these things. The european brands tend to focus more on cost of ownership for the fleets.
Make sure the £245 includes valave adjustment.
I accept that this is a price I pay for the VTEC performance and reliability (15M units made without a single failure) and long life of the car.
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"VTEC performance and reliability (15M units made without a single failure)"..
..A number of Vtec Engines fail..I know I had one, although it was the piston rings that went (at low mileage) and it never went much above 5000rpm either.
Whether the VTEC part of the engine has failed ever, check the Honda owners forums. But I recall reading one or two have failed. However considering what they do, they are far more reliable than you would expect.
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I absolutely agree with Pendelbury. It's silly to buy a car like a Honda and not be prepared to look after it, knowing the brand's reputation for longevity if serviced properly.
That's what so upset me about the cheaper alternative service, I was sold. I bought the car with the intention of getting a long life from it and if that means I spend the odd few hundred pounds ensuring that, well, that's ok - it's a deal I can accept and (perhaps unreasonably) I assumed a main Honda dealer would play their part. After all, if it is true that they make their money on service and repairs, surely it is in their interest to keep my car in tip-top condition for as long as possible?
Now, of course, I have to find a reliable independent and that raises the question of whether Hondas are in that camp where they require more specialist knowledge than one can reasonably expect of an independent.
Any opinions?
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I have my doubts that it was carried out cos the car has only done 11K and they only need adjusting at 25K but of course they assure me it needed doing and they did it.
I don't follow that - it's specifically a mileage related task, as you say, at 25K miles. So whay were they done if the car had only covered 11K miles?
In answer to other comments, it's a pretty quick job for a dealer, and they have a special tool for making the adjustments (it's a screw and locknut, there no shim swapping necessary as on some cars).
The only thing is that the engine is supposed to be fairly cool when it's done - I've seen comments about it being left for at least 3hrs, and I'm dubious a dealer would bother worrying about that.
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I have to agree with you Bill Payer and I queried it with Honda UK and they said it is 25K or 2 years which ever comes first.
I'm still in e-mail exchange with them saying the service check list only says it is mileage and not age specific.
I also have to be honest and say that I have given in to it and have not chased it that much - which I agree is more fool me if I think I have been conned out of money and I am not doing anything about it.
In terms of the engine being cool, when I dropped it of at 8am and asked if I could have it back by lunch time the dealer did say that they needed it to cool down before they could work on it and the earliest I could have it back is 4pm. Whether they did is another matter.
I am going to try an alternative dealer next time though.
Edited by Pendlebury on 04/12/2007 at 17:54
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The only thing is that the engine is supposed to be fairly cool when it's done - I've seen comments about it being left for at least 3hrs and I'm dubious a dealer would bother worrying about that.
My local dealer insisted on having it in the night before and parking it on the lift, so it wouldn't have to be started before being worked on.
Saying that, mine's a diesel and they later found that they didn't need to check the hydraulic vales anyway. but *some* thought was there. Sort of. If you squint.
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but *some* thought was there. Sort of. If you squint.
Sounds like my Honda dealer's service "advisor" - she justified the high 3 year service price on our Jazz by saying the fuel filter needed changing. Apparently that's only on some diesels, and Jazz doesn't even come in a diesel version.
My heat sank when I took my Merc for servicing and she was working at the MB dealer. She hasn't got any brighter - took 40mins to take the car off me and she forget to call and say it was ready, so I ended up driving through rush hour traffic to pick it up.
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Valve clearence checking (Honda) - Over the years I have heard one mechanic say "we can hear it when the clearences are out" and another say something like Its a quick job, you just adjust the screw on top of the valves.
On the Civic VTEC the valve gear seems easily accesible so, perhaps a 30 - 60 min job?.
You should ask for the sheet which the mechanic fills in with the clearance values.
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Your right there saltrampen cos I have seen the guys with their stethoscopes listening for the tappet noise.
I was just on about the VTEC systen btw which if one or two have failed does suprise me - but like you say even if you build 15M and get one or 2 failures that is way past six sigma levels and equates to about 0.0000013% if I can still do maths.
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Frequent valve clearance checks are common on many motorcycles - but I doubt that many dealers actually do them.
The check values are typically for a stone cold engine.
I've checked the valves on my motorcycle after about 6 hours and they were out (clearance was too small) - they were fine the next day; more than 24 hours after the engine was stopped.
How does a dealer manage to get a stone cold engine ?
Actually, checking valve clearances is usually simple - it's how you resolve the out-of-spec valves that gets expensive ! Talk to a Honda VFR 800-VTEC motorcycle owner about his 16000 mile service :-)
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SteVee
I agree with what you say about cold values, perhaps they just check the values are between the hot and cold values for Cars ? Not ideal, but as you say it can take many hours for engines to cool down, although not sure if bike valves get hotter running higher rpms than car valves? Also possibly do the clearances have less tolarence at these higher rpms?
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Do they have hot values ?
I believe they just listen to the engine - too large clearance should be detectable, and is the more likely case; but I don't know if they would detect too small clearance.
For most car engines, I don't think this is a problem - but I would seek advice for a Type-R engine and I would want it checked as per the w/s manual. The same may apply to the BMW M3
On my mazda6, I believe the instruction was to listen to the engine, once it had done at least 120km
On bike engines, it's the Ducati - with its Desmodromic valves - which really stands out.
Here adjustment is critical - and servicing costs reflect the amount of work that is absolutely necessary
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> I believe they just listen to the engine - too large clearance should be detectable and is the more likely case; but I don't know if they would detect too small clearance.
In most cases on bikes, the clearances "close up" rather than enlarge, due to valve seat recession presumably caused by the ridiculous RPM.
I agree though it's the rectification that takes the time on most of them. On some of the newer sports bikes where low weight and compact dimensions were more important design considerations than maintenance access, it's an engine-out job to even take the cam cover off.
Even my old ZZR needs the cams removing to get at the shims, although thankfully this can be done (just) with the engine in situ.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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thanks for all the replies. I've booked the car in with the cheapest Honda main dealer. They are collecting the car on friday (and leaving a free loan car !) and have confirmed that the valve clearance adjustment is included in the price. I'm amazed that 2 dealers 30 miles apart can come up with prices for the same service which differ by more than 30%.
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Can I ask you Seant what general area of the country you are in?
I have a Honda Accord also and would be interested to find out if you are anywhere near me .
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I live in Nottinghamshire, but the car is going to be serviced in the "peoples republic of south yorkshire" - Sheffield to be precise.
I will post again once the car is serviced to let you know how it went.
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Seant, thanks for that -
As I am in West Sussex its a bit of a long way to go to Yorkshire just to have a car service... I'm pretty happy with my Main Agent here anyway and it had 24 k service before I bought it in May.
I'd still be interested to know how you get on though.
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The car was collected at 07:45 on Friday morning and a 07 plate Honda Jazz 1.4 SE CVT-7 was left in it's place. My wife can't/won't drive an Auto so I finished up with the Jazz for the day. It was a nice little car, although at £12K I'd find it hard to justify. The auto box was very impressive, but the 7 speed paddle shift mode was a bit over the top in a 1.4 hatch (the last car I drove with this type of gearbox was a DB9 !). In full manual mode it was very smooth and responsive, although the steering was a bit lifeless. The engine was typically smooth / quiet but the sound system lacked long wave (so no live cricket !). In summary I'd rate the Jazz as a highly accomplished, if somewhat expensive small hatch.
The garage called my wife at midday to ask persmission to change the rear brake pads and skim the rear disks at the "honda happiness" price of £150, which she agreed to. The car was delivered back to us fully valeted inside and out at 17:00 with a clean bill of health. The total cost was £405 (£245 for the 25K mile service + £150 for the rear pads/skim and £10 for 2 wipers). I would have been tempted to change the rear brake pads myself, although £150 inclusive of skimming the rear disks seems reasonable at main dealer rates.
I was slightly surprised the car needed new rear pads at only 18K miles, especially as the front pads and disks are original and appear good for several thousand miles yet. The handbrake was not binding, so I can only assume this is a characteristic of the car. The last rear brakes I changed were on a 1992 Citroen ZX 1.9D which I owned from new until 7 years old and 157K miles. This required 4 sets of front pads throughout its lifetime, but only 1 set of rear shoes.
Overall a relatively painless experience and I'd certainly use the garage in question in the future.
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At 150 quid for rear pads and a skim I can see why they call it "Honda Happiness''.
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I don't think the rear discs and pads would be worn at 18k - they don't do much work. I suspect much more likely that the discs were corroded/pitted and that's why they skimmed. Normally the original pads would go back on, but I guess they used the opportunity to make a bit of headway with this month's parts sales target...
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For £150 I would have expected new rear pads AND discs, not just a skim
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Try getting authorisation for that at 18k miles from a leasing company.
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In summary I'd rate the Jazz as a highly accomplished if somewhat expensive small hatch.
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An aspirational purchase, perhaps, compared to more run of the mill hatches?
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"aspirational purchase"
Oh Nooooo ! (in a fair impression of Ruth from the Archers)
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 09/12/2007 at 18:29
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