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More quality failures from Toyota - Pendlebury
The number of recalls that Toyota are making at the moment should surely be a major concern to anyone that is thinking of buying one.
The latest recall is for 4000 cars in the UK - Lexus IS250 & GS350 - and requires 3.5 hours of work to replace faulty fuel pipes that are leaking fuel into the engine bay.
OK so strictly speaking these are Lexus and not Toyota but they are the same Company.
There doesn't seem to be many months go by without Toyota making some recall somewhere in Europe or the US.
I have said previously that I think they are losing their status as they try and cope with increased demand but I for one with my Corolla experiences and all this news will avoid them until I see them fixing things.
They are heading the same way as VW and MB albeit the Germans created their own demise in quality - I doubt anyone in Toyota decided to cut costs at the expense of quality but they clearly have problems.
More quality failures from Toyota - AlanGowdy
Hmmm... I recommend a reading of HJ's pre-test on the latest Ford Focus - but don't bother if you're a badge snob, it might spoil your day.
More quality failures from Toyota - cheddar
Yes interesting:

"On top of all that Ford of Europe is on a bit of a roll. If you want a new Mondeo diesel or an S-Max you have to join the queue and wait as long as six months. ?Discount, sir. Well we can do you a few points off, but forget any residual-destroying five grand off.? The end result is showing through at the auctions with genuine values ahead of ?quality? cars like the Passat and Touran. The German public, if not the British, is finally waking up to the fact hat a modern Ford is a high quality product, as good if not better than a VW or a Honda or a BMW and snapping at the heels of Audi."
More quality failures from Toyota - Avant
I hope that's true, Cheddar, as it would make new Fords at last a good proposition for private buyers. I've been put off them for years because of low residuals, which are nowadays not through poor quality (far from it) but oversupply - too many ex-fleet Focuses and Mondeos on the market. If the BMW 3-series is outselling the Mondeo, maybe oversupply will be less of a problem.

A Focus 2.0 TDCi estate would have been just as good to own as my Golf, but What Car's tables show 36 % retained value after 3 years for the Focus, playing 50 % for the Golf.
More quality failures from Toyota - Halmer
They're no better than Alfas or Fiats. It's just a cute marketing ploy.
More quality failures from Toyota - oldtoffee
>>but What Car's tables show 36 % retained value after 3 years for the Focus, playing 50 % for the Golf.

Drive the Deal are offering £5,100 off a Focus TDCI Zetec and £1,700 off a Golf TDi Match.

So the Focus costs you £11,500 and is worth £6K after 3 years losing you £5,500

The Golf costs you £14,400 and is worth £8K after 3 years losing you £6,400.

Factor in extra interest charges on the extra £3K you borrow or lose if paying cash, servicing costs and it's going to cost you less to drive a better car (IMO)

Obviously this assumes that the latest Focus will eventually be available with this level of discounts - I reckon given time and continued popularity with the fleets it will be despite Ford's claims to the contrary (heard it before.)
More quality failures from Toyota - cheddar
I hope that's true Cheddar >>


It is a quote from HJ not mine.

I have mixed feelings on residules because it is great to be able to let someone else take the hit and by a year old Ford for 000's less than a VW or Honda let alone an Audi.

However Ford are providing the quality so if they control supply then they will also control residules and after all the fleets are less of an influence due to BiK and CSR driven moves to car allowances etc.
More quality failures from Toyota - Flying Red
How many times have we heard that improved build quality on a new model will lead to higher residuals? It just never happens - there's so much inertia in the trade who will use any excuse to bid low on a part exchange.
More quality failures from Toyota - LinuxGeek
Its good to read that Ford are doing good quality cars and as good as BMW, Honda etc.. according to some posters. But then why are they losing on the financial side overall for past few years? If they're doing good quality cars then surely they should be making profit and not loses?
More quality failures from Toyota - Neiltoo
It takes many years to overcome a bad reputation.
More people post bad reports than good ones.
Bad news seems to sell.
More quality failures from Toyota - Avant
"....it's going to cost you less to drive a better car (IMO)" (NeilS, above)

Point taken, Neil, and no doubt this works in some types of deal. I buy my cars on PCPs, and the monthly payment was more or less the same for a Ford (C-Max 2.0 TDCI) as for the Golf (2.0 TDI estate). It should have been less, as the Ford's list price was lower and the dealer was giving a good discount; but the lower residual value pushed up the monthly payments on the PCP.
More quality failures from Toyota - khizman
Mondeo build quality is nowhere comparable to my e39.

I have sat in one and there are still bits that just make it feel cheap adn built to a budget.
Sun visors and glovebox, door, and there may be more, I only sat in it for about half a minute.
More quality failures from Toyota - Pendlebury
>>Its good to read that Ford are doing good quality cars and as good as BMW, Honda etc<<
I wouldn't think for a minute that Ford have caught up with BMW and Honda - I think they have caught up with VW and Toyota are just going backwards anyway.
Do people really think that companies such as BMW and Honda sat back waiting for everyone else to catch them up - I think not.
If your talking the softness of some of the interior surfaces then maybe they have caught up but in terms of how the cars are engineered - no chance.
More quality failures from Toyota - AlanGowdy
Perfection is great if you can afford it but the law of diminishing returns sets in very quickly. I think most people (myself included) would be reasonably happy to buy a car with tiny design or production 'defects' such as trim or panel fits that are 1 or 2 mm more than the 'classier' opposition or slightly less tactile plastic textures on the dashboard if it means buying a car that costs several thousand pounds less than that opposition.
More quality failures from Toyota - Pendlebury
>>if it means buying a car that costs several thousand pounds less than that opposition.<<
Looks like you will be buying Korean next then Alan :-)
More quality failures from Toyota - Pendlebury
The other intersteing aspect in the improvement of Ford's reliability and quality is that they are learning a huge amount from Mazda.
I know of so many people connected to Ford in some way that tell me of how Ford have used Mazda for this.
I'm not knocking it - good luck to them - at the end of the day any improvement in reliability and quality is good for us folk that buy the cars.
More quality failures from Toyota - AlanGowdy
>>if it means buying a car that costs several thousand pounds less than that opposition.<<
Looks like you will be buying Korean next then Alan :-)


Well, you never know. As Hyundai's recent advertising suggests, you should look beyond the little label on the boot lid to judge what the vehicle is really like.

Back in June I bought a Fiat Grande Punto, with a certain amount of apprehension due to the company's less-than-glowing reliability reputation. It has just passed 10,000 miles without missing a beat. The fit and finish of bodywork, trim and switchgear are slighty better than on my previous car, a SEAT.

I've still got my fingers crossed though.
More quality failures from Toyota - burpie
How many times have we heard that improved build quality on a new model will lead to higher residuals? It just never happens - there's so much inertia in the trade who will use any excuse to bid low on a part exchange.



Compare Skoda residuals now compared to 15 years ago!
More quality failures from Toyota - Pendlebury
>>Well, you never know<<

to be fair Alan - you could do a alot worse than buy korean - especially with the 5 & 7 year warranties you get - that's even better than my beloved Honda !
More quality failures from Toyota - alex823
All cars have faults. To Toyota's credit perhaps they are more willing that other manufacturers to admit faults and recall a faulty product. A manufacturer with a low amount of recalls could just be ignoring the faults.

As for Ford though they have come a long way they are still far from the quality you would get from more premium brands. There is lots of evidence of cost cutting if their cars give the appearance of quality (eg. a nice upper dash). On the other hand they are cheap - you can pick up a Focus for thousands of pounds less than say the equivalent Civic or Golf and it handles better than both.
More quality failures from Toyota - rtj70
Didn't Mitsubishi have a reputation of very reliable cars with no recalls. Then it turns out they ignored recalls and tried to fix when serviced and subsequently got into lots of trouble.
More quality failures from Toyota - Kiwi Gary
I wonder how many recalls, regardless of make, are for commercial reasons to keep out of the courts, especially for companies selling heavily into the USA, where, I have read and heard several times, only 50% of Americans are not sueing or being sued at any given time. There was recently a Toyota recall for steering mods on one or two models. I dropped in to my friendly neighbourhood Toyota workshop for a chat to see what was breaking. Evidently the double-knuckle joint in the steering shaft doesn't like repeated slamminig against the kerb at full lock. Something like that, even though it is abyssmal driving, would cause liability of multimillions in the USA, so it is probably more economical to recall and fit something that would handle a bus steering.
More quality failures from Toyota - Pendlebury
"To Toyota's credit perhaps they are more willing that other manufacturers to admit faults and recall a faulty product".

In fairness astral I think your correct in your assumption - it's just that Toyota are supposed to have a reputation for buidling reliable cars - not for being being the best at recalling their problem cars.
More quality failures from Toyota - henry k
They may be more highly strung in the future ;-0
tinyurl.com/2ly5ny
More quality failures from Toyota - Pendlebury
There does seem to be this battle raging between Toyota and their robots and Honda and it's Asimo. I think Asimo is more advanced at the moment and they are using some of the technology for their cars with CMBS etc.