The clutch & slave cylinder are going to need doing in the next 10 days or so. I'm wondering how many more big bills I'm going to have. I love the image of the car & the way it drives etc but I'm wondering (semi-seriously this time) whether I should quickly part-ex it for an Audi TT 225 (convertible if poss)/ A3 3.2 / Nissan 350z (import) at about 4-5 years old with 40k-60k miles on - question is, will these be more in line with my needs for paranoia-free reliable motoring, or is any performance car at 5 years old likely to throw up expensive issues? Budget is 11k-12k. Still not up for sacrificing 'the badge' yet.
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Love affair? Not much more than a one night stand! :)
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dump the cow and tell her to sling 'er hook
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Assume you will part-ex after replacing these faulty bits? Otherwise you'll not get a good price surely. But you did say part-ex.
I'd think carefully over the age/reliability/condition of the next car. I seem to recall some warned you about the Boxster eating cash but your heart ruled over your head. Sounds like you enjoyed it though so good on you for doing what you wanted ;-)
The TT has dropped in value since the new one came out. But it was never a sport car - it's a Golf MkIV in drag so after the Boxster I think you'll be disappointed. It looks good (hair dresser style) but does not drive nearly as well as it looks inside and out. Same will go for the previous model A3 sharing a chassis with a Golf underneath.
You'll have to drive your choices but I think the Boxster will have influenced your decision.
If you like taking some risks, how about a Rotary engined Mazda RX-8?
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TBH, I'm wondering if the Boxster was wasted on me as I found the mark 4 golf GTi just as nice to drive once I'd had it chipped, it definitely had more mid-range pull & was far more comfortable & relaxed on the motorway (which is 99% of my driving). The extra grip afforded by the quattro on the TT or the A3 will make it handle better than the GTi and that was fine for me. My question really is about the ongoing reliability & running costs of these cars, as I don't mind shelling out predictable regular costs for tyres, fuel & insurance, but the constant £700 jobs that need doing every 6 weeks or so are starting to affect my home life. Where do these cars sit with that - and what about an imported Nissan 350z? I think I need something that is properly mass market and very reliable.
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Couldn't agree more with the comments on the TT. I drove a TT 225 bhp 2 years ago, and found it fast, but disappointing dynamically compared to the Focus I had at the time. If I were lucky enough to own a Boxster, I wouldn't even bother test driving the Audi. It's on a different planet.
I must confess to being a little shocked that the Boxster has proven problematic. I always thought one of the joys of a Porsche was supposed to be its ability to be a reliable and realistic proposition as a daily driver.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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Porsche are a reasonable daily driver *compared to other sports cars*, but it's a fact that they cost a fortune to run. While some parts can be very reasonable, labour costs tend to be very high because the bits are not that accessible. And they have enough quirks to make them 'interesting'.
I would have a good think about what you want out of the car. If you are mainly doing motorway commuting then you have to ask what the boxster gives you over anything else.
It sounds like you want something that is a bit different, looks nice with a good image, but doesnt actually need to have superb driving dynamics. Nothing wrong with that.
I think that the VW/Audi range is not the best drive (quattros better than the rest) but they sound like they do what you want. But I would also think about other things like the Alfas, bmw coupes, merc slk/clk, etc.
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What would an early 50k mile 130i go for?
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I don't have any first hand experience with either Boxster or TT but from the motoring forums, I can see both cost a fortune to run.
Mazda RX8 is a wonderful car but there are also niggles (engine flooding, very poor fuel economy etc.)
Are you only after RWD cars? What about MX5?
If you're ok with FWDs, then you have a huge choice!
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I'm not in any way hung up on RWD or 4wd. Are the TT's that expensive to run? I had a Golf Mk4 GTi before & found it to be fine, I know some of the main issues i.e. timing belt replacement, windows dropping down, oil sump grounding, water pump failure, ignition packs, heater resistor pack, are there more on the TT that go wrong?
I don't really like the look of the RX8 & MX5 is too 'girly' for me...
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Honda S2000 ?
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Honda S2000
I second that :)
Or Hyundai Coupe (if you can bear the badge ;) You can even get under warranty!
or
BMW Z4/Z3?
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If 99% of your driving is on the motorway then a sportscar is not the best choice - you'll be exeriencing all of the disadvantages (noise, ride, running costs) without being able to take advantages of the pleasurable aspects! And 'Prestige' cars do unfortunately tend to cost more to run - that's what makes them 'prestige' I guess!
If you were happy with a MkIV Golf GTI (Golf's have never been too great in the handling dept) then there should be lots of other 'hot hatch' cars that will suit. Something Japanese will probably fit the bill too - although avoid anything that's been 'modded'!
Don't like the TT myself - feels horrible and claustrophobic inside and I once replaced a waterpump on one - nightmare of job due to very tight engine bay.
BTW - didn't you buy this Porsche just recently after months of looking?
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Hi,
I did buy the Porsche after months of dilly-dalying, but in that time I have replaced 2 oxygen sensors, 3 tyres, 1 MAF, the hood, 1 wishbone. Now the master / slave cylinder is on the way out (can't tell which till it's taken off, adding to the expense), and the guy @ the specialist garage told me that my year of car has an engine that can go bang at any time, that can't be rebuilt, costs 14k to replace. I do like the car & enjoy driving in it with the hood down & posing etc, but I can't deal with that level of uncertainty, I don't mind running costs, but I need them to be predictable. I spent more on the car at purchase to get a low milage one, which was obviously a waste of money, and I'm sure some have run one without needing to do any extra jobs at all, but I'm getting to the end of my tether with having to spend £100s of pounds a month. The fact that it's winter makes it even easier for me to think about dumping her.... wow that was a bit of a rant. I don't find the Boxster a squeeze as I'm quite short (5'7") and I need something with the right 'image', so a Ford / Vauxhall / Honda doesn't appeal
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Can we ask what you have and what you paid?
I assume it was a private sale as no warranty?
Might be difficult to part ex as the dealer will want to know why your changing so quickly.
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...I need something with the right 'image' so a Ford / Vauxhall / Honda doesn't appeal
That's a shame because you're missing out on some cracking motors that way. Personally I couldn't care less what badge is on the front of my cars so long as they're a good drive and don't cost the earth to run, but I appreciate that not everyone views these matters as I do.
Hmm, thinks...Is there any variant of Merc SLK that meets your criteria and is within budget? Or how about a Z4 (3.0 or M)?
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Sounds to me as if the Golf GTi is the closet match to what the OP wants - quick enough drive, based on a commonplace model so not as expensive to run, practical when it needs to be.
Any of the hot hatches, or an Imprezza/Legacy STi would do the trick, but I suspect only the Golf has sufficient "brand recognition" outside the petrolhead community to meet the OP's image requirement.
Or how about a 330 diesel if fuel economy when not enjoying the performance is an issue?
(The Z4 isn't a bad idea, but I doubt an M variant is going to be cheap to run!)
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Beat me to it - the Merc SLK might be interesting. On your budget a post-W plate revised 230K is within range. They're not such a sporty fix as your Boxster (or even S3/GTI) but press several sporty/prestige 'buttons' nonetheless - that folding tin-top makes it a semi-practical roadster with (so I've read) good cruising/motorway comfort. I haven't heard the usual tales of woe usually associated with mid-90's to mid-2000's Mercedes re general reliability, rust issues etc. Best spec. by common consent is 230K with auto & leather - may even be Merc approved used at that price point, what with winter & all.
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>> ...I need something with the right 'image' so a Ford / Vauxhall / Honda >> doesn't appeal
Is that vx220 (?) thing sneered at by the cognoscenti? This is a genuine question, I know nothing of sports cars.
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and I need something with the right 'image'.......
Surely the 'image' of a Porsche owner is of a wealthy chap(ess) who doesn't mind the odd £00's bill every month or so. Small change from his/her City bonus, no doubt.
End of stereotype :-)
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The most motorway friendly convertible I can remember driving is the Mercedes SLK. Solid, quiet, comfortable and based on the old C-Class so robust and long lived technology that basically anyone can service. The folding metal roof is also still amazing after 10 years and the 6 cylinder versions have very nice engines. Unfortunately it inherits the rather vague steering of the W202 C-Class so not exactly a sporting drive compared to Boxster but really no worse than a TT or 350Z.
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If image is all important to you, how about a classic car with a "badge"? Yes it will cost a lot to run but should not depreciate. You would lose out on running costs. You say you like posing... for people who care little about why you need to pose ;-)
The repairs/replacements you describe are frightening (some did allude to some on here) but the hood! Or finding the engine might go pop and effectively write the car off. Ouch. Apart from three tyres which probably were "poor" when you bought it. And maybe get another opinion on the engine?
What I will say from my VAG experience of their main/common cars is reliability can be poor too. Then again Porsche own 30%+ via the Porsche family and Ferdinand Pieche was in charge of VAG and is still on the board.
Actually, if you can afford to keep the Boxster on the road at many hundreds per month and want to pose (bear with me)... How about a more normal A3 and flash the cash and impress friends with the way you can afford to treat them to meals etc. Now a friend like that would go down better with me than one that drove a flash car... someone generous ;-)
Rob
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I know I have a link to Porsche as I'm vice chairman of TiPEC, but some of this doesn't surprise me.
You've just bought a second hand car that cost £35K when new & was the bottom of the range then. Oxygen, MAF sensors can go at any time on any car, as can tyres. As for the paranoia as regards the engine, the comment about the engine being £14K & non-rebuildable is complete rubbish. Brand new engines are around £7K & can be rebuilt cheaper than that. Porsche choose not to because given their £120PH labour rate it's more economical for them not to. Various specialists can now do rebuilds that improve the engine & remove the weaknesses. Also the number of engines that go bang is relatively low & if serviced by an Official Porsche Dealer then they have been known to "help".
As for the hood what happened to it, hoods on Boxsters last well, so to have a problem it may have been there originally.
Did you have the car inspected by a specialist? I suspect not. I also suspect your specialist is not that good. I also suggested joining a club before you bought it & if you had then you'd have known about these issues & also been directed to a better specialist than you use at present.
Finally if you think the Boxster can be replaced by a 2 seater Golf aka an Audi TT then the Boxster was always the wrong choice. I also believe that the big bills are behind you now & should settle down to an annual service which is what most of my members do. Astraight service is actually very reasonable, one of my members pays more for his BMW 5 series than he does his 996!
Jim
54 Jaguar S-Type 2.7 SE Diesel
87 Porsche 944 Lux 2.5
80 TR7V8
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This may not be 100% in line with this thread, but for other people considering buying a boxster who may be put off by some of the comments;
I bought an 04 model 3 months ago and have enjoyed every moment of the last 4K miles. I bought it from a Porshe dealer with the warranty and intend to keep it up yearly until the car reaches 9 years old. Then probably move on to a newer model. The point being that at least with newer models you can cover for many major costs with the warranty and then budget for the tyres and service as pretty well fixed costs for the year.
This is assuming the warranty is all its cracked up to be! I think it's around £800 a year but covers engine/gearbox replacement should it be needed. The only niggling doubt I have is that the dealer said 'except for normal wear and tear'. That could be counted towards anything don't you think?
Mike
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Perleman -
On this, the happy 60th wedding anniversary of Her Majesty, I would have thought that you might consider the need for stickability in a relationship.
When you take on something like a Boxster, you need to remember that it is for richer, for poorer (especially the latter) and for better, for worse. There will be difficult times, but stick in there, work at it, make sacrifices, and I am sure it will turn out to be well worth it.
:-)
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To pay £800 p.a. for a warranty which excludes wear and tear seems madness to me. I think what you have there is actually 'mechanical breakdown insurance' - i.e. its really an insurance policy which pays out (up to some limit) for the 'sudden failure' of a component which causes the car to stop moving. Most mechanical problems are not like that, in fact most problems could indeed be interpreted as 'wear and tear'.
When I was properly in the trade (i.e with large premises and a proper forecourt) one of the most feared sights was a customer approaching with a 'warranty' document in his hand. Inevitably it was some problem (e.g. car wouldn't start) which was down to a fault not covered by the warranty. WE would then have the job of being the intermediary between the irate customer and the warranty company. If they DID pay up then the labour rate was derisory. Eventually my father put up a notice stating that we would not deal with these companies - up to the customer to try their luck.
I would expect the Porsche-branded product to be better than this, but still have a lot of exclusions. And remember that you will probably have to use them for your servicing and have any recommended repairs carried out. At £100-150 p/h that could be expensive in the long run...
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Just reading the sprinkling of problems mentioned here & exhortations to consult specialists, review owners clubs, get super-duper warranties tells me all I need to know - these cars are projects for hobbyists, not turn-key engineering propositions - let alone reliable transport.
Surprise yourself perleman - get a Skoda Octavia vRS.
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I've recently bought a Boxster. I'm well aware of the risks, I'm also just starting to discover the joys of its handling. Had it sideways for the first of hopefully many times the last time I took it out.
I'm also very glad that its a second car, a toy in the garage, 35k miles a year isn't what its designed for. Its a great car, sure there's some expenses and some risk involved in running such a toy but the products of the Porsche stable are far more usable than those of the other supercar manufacturers.
I'm not going to include the rally reps in these, they're a different beast.
I've got no idea quite what will end up happening with the running costs of mine, I'm not overly concerned, it was bought for some fun and I'll have some fun with it, if it costs then I'll pay and continue having fun.
--
I read often, only post occasionally
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FT asked about the Vauxhaul vx220.
Its more or less a Lotus Elise, so definitely not the car to do 35,000 miles a year in! By reputation, they change hands frequently as many buyers find the handling too hairy. And, with so few built (I think it was only in the 100s) parts - especially panels? - could be a problem.
Personally, if I didn't find much difference between a Porsche and a GTi (as the OP said earlier), I doubt I'd be of a mind to continue paying Porsche-sized running costs, never mind any repair bills!
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Ahh; the VX220....
There was a guy called Imran in Crawley that had a nice shiny one for sale recently.....
One careful owner....
[Shame about the others though.......]
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lol
although didnt it turn out he had a couple?
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although didnt it turn out he had a couple?
I didn't get that far; I gave up reading after page 45.
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I heard that new Boxster comes with a 2-yr warranty instead of standard 3.
Does it mean Porsche itself isn't sure of their own reliability??
On WhatCar/Parkers etc. lot of people complaint about Boxster :(
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Its unfortunate, but as the purchase price of a car goes down through depreciation the running costs go up due to age, thus accelerating further depreciation therefore landing some impressive machinery into the buying power of Joe public.
For a genuine "prestige car" by which I mean one that impressed onlookers when it was new / sub 3 years old, 11-12K be at the nearing the big bills stage as it'll be at least 5/6 years old.
Skoda VRS sounds good to me. (Did I really say that?!!!)
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Perleman: get rid of it. It'll continue to be a money pit. IMO Porsche are overrated and liable to be money-pits unless they're pretty new. (I know, I've owned one.) They're great to drive but need plenty of TLC to keep them in top nick, and the bits and the work are usually expensive.
If you're like me, you'll happily get rid of it to get something that's less of a 'pure' driving experience (but all you have to do is drive it and wash it now and again). Which is one of the reasons MM's fleet has a MINI Cooper S. You've done the Porsche bit; move on.
BTW, my guess is that your Boxster is an early 2.5.
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Volvo V70 T5 or 2.4T or 'R' chipped if necessary, (not 'R' methinks) and stop worrying about what you think you look like behind the wheel. Only small boys and adolescent girls care, (for a brief second), and nobody, but nobody else gives a flying fig. Trust me P/man, trust me.
Hope you sort it and with the change you can but us all a 'quick' pint!!
VBR........................MD
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