I'm writing on behalf of my semi-distraught mother-in-law (I know .... m-in-l's - who'd have 'em?). A few weeks ago, out of the blue, she received a letter from a debt collection agency demanding £75 on behalf of NCP for failing to pay the penalty for parking on a Sunday in April in a car-park in Brighton where she shouldn't have been. She recalls using this car park, but she didn't receive any ticket so toddled off home none the wiser. However, the letter, which arrived mid-October, claims she WAS issued with a parking violation ticket which offered her the chance to pay a £25 fine. She quite categorically denies ever receiving this, and so she wrote back to the credit agency explaining this and enclosing a £25 cheque, which she would have paid had she received the ticket in the first place. She has now received a further letter simply telling her to cough up the remaining £50. She rang the agency, who advised her to ring NCP. However, NCP weren't in the slightest bit interested and fobbed her off back to the credit agency.
The issue seems to centre around the means by which she was issued with the parking ticket in the first place. She says (and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve her - she's as straight as a dye) there was no ticket awaiting her on the car, and she received no summons etc... in the meantime. This October letter was the first she knew of it.
What should she do? She doesn't feel compelled to pay the extra £50 as she was never given a chance to pay £25 in the first place. And 6 months seems an awfully long time - is there a "time-out" like there is with speeding offences?
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Go to the Pepipoo site, have a read of the FAQs there and then delve into the forums - the good people there will be well-placed to advise:
www.pepipoo.com/
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Eventually it comes to court, or a form of court. She will have to swear in front of a Commissioner for Oaths - try your local solicitor - that she hadn't got the ticket. They will fold. It will cost her a tenner or something and a walk up the road.
Anyway I seem to remember it's something like that.
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Complicated but as I see it.
This is a civil matter and criminal law is not involved.
Illegal parking backed up by Traffic Orders enforced by the Local Authority has to have the issue of a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) by handing to the driver or placed on the vehicle. If neither occurred then the PCN is illegal. End of story no obligation on her. Following so called issue then a procedure kicks in with Notice to Owner - a letter to the Reg keeper about the offence and asking for payment. If still not acknowledged and unpaid then proceedings at a County Court for a judgement order re the debt and again along the line ending with a visit from the bailiffs.
It is stated that NCP are involved which appears that if she parked in one of their parks then the driver of her car entered into a contract with them for the use of the space against payment of cash. If payment not made then NCP have to pursue collection against the driver of the car. Again a judgement is required from County Court.
On first notification of the charge she should have replied that is up to NCP to prove who was the driver at the time and chase them as the other party to the contract. As Registered Keeper of the vehicle involved she has no obligation to name the driver.
But she has made an acknowledgement in sending a cheque for £25 which I presume has been kept by the Debt collection agency.
I would consider asking the Debt Collection Agency/NCP for a copy of the County Court Judgement and if they cannot produce one the return of the £25 cheque (little hope). It should also be pointed out that it is against the criminal law to harrass a person in connection with a debt and that if matters continue then this will be reported. Keep a copy of all correspondence in this matter.
I would also suggest that you visit and have a session with CAB Solititor who I believe will give similar advice to that above and more pertinent as he will have legal qualification.
Me just an old retired Plod.
dvd
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Doesn't their presenting her £25 cheque mean they have accepted her explanation? She has made an offer in settlement, and they have accepted it?
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It's called a Statutory Declaration ( that it didn't arrive ) , at my local court in North London they are free , just go to inquiries .
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The same happened to me with TFL over the congestion charge. I had a bailiff turn up asking for £600 for an offence i new nothing about which was committed some 5 months previously. As i am in and out of London it was possible i had forgotten to pay the C Charge. However, i received no communication from TFL telling me i had not paid or giving me the opportunity to pay a fine.
After a bit of research on the net i put in a call to TEC (Traffic Enforcement Centre) in northampton who handle the majority of parking offences (I don't know if NCP use these, but is suspect they may). Surprisingly, they were v helpful. They told me to submit a 'statutory declaration out of time' notice. You download these forms here www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/7017.htm
You declare on these forms that you received no notice or communication prior to the court order, sign the form take it to your nearest county court to witness and stamp it (its free) and send it off to the court that registered the order. In my case this was Northampton where TEC is based, and i scanned and emailed them the signed and stamped documents as well as posting them. If you do this straight away this stops any bailiff action immediately and you should tell the bailiff that you have begun this proceedure and keep copies to show them if they turn up at your door again.
The court now reviews the documents (mine took 4 weeks) and either throws out the original order completely or re-sets the fine to the original charge. In my case this went back to £8 saving myself £592.00 for just a bit of legwork and an hour on the PC and phone.
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Thank-you, SM, for that very helpful first post.
A friend of mine had a similar experience to that of the OP's M-I-L. I am beginning to suspect that at least on some occasions, a ticket is not left on the vehicle in question so that...dare I suggest...no fine is paid and this then sets in motion letters demanding a much higher penalty. At least some recipients will have no idea what to do other than to pay-up, especially as, in my friends case, they may be told 'Pay up by such-and-such a date (only about seven days later) or the matter will go to Court'.
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GT, what happened to your MiL has happened to enough other people to be a pretty sore point in the Brighton area at the moment. The local paper is carrying a story on it today - visit theargus.co.uk and you should see it on the front page.
I'm having a little trouble getting the page to load but not sure whether that's a problem with their site or my computer.
May be of interest/assistance.
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The article referred to by paulb
theargus.co.uk/display.var.1838964.0.motorists_com...p>>
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GT, I see you are fairly new to the site.
I can recommend Dwight Van Driver as a completely 100% reliable poster. He is AWAYS right. Please take what he has to say as gospel, and he is the only poster here that I would say this about.
Hugo
Edited by Hugo {P} on 16/11/2007 at 19:11
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>>>GT, I see you are fairly new to the site.<<<<
As a certain tennis player used to say...."You can't be *serious*"
He is not exactly wet behind the ears where this site is concerned :o)
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He is not exactly wet behind the ears where this site is concerned :o)
OOPS!
Just checked his profile, I see he registered 8th Nov alright, but in 2002!
My humble apologies!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 17/11/2007 at 00:11
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sq
No offence taken - I've not been a regular poster since joining, so probably fair to say I'm a little damp behind the ears. Very grateful for all replies. GT
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 17/11/2007 at 00:37
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paulb - very interesting. Have sent the story to MiL. She's visiting next week and bringing the letters with her, so I'll know more at first hand then. Thanks. GT
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