You have to remember that most drivers are completely thick, and the others are foreign and don't understand the rules of our roads!
I remember a Police documentary too, where the Officers stopped behind a car on the hard shoulder and told the driver to build up speed on the HS etc. She simply pulled straight out, much to the horror of the Officers.
Defensive Driving tip: In free flowing traffic, *always* move to L2 to pass a vehicle on the HS.
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After nearly 20 years of motorway commuting I've had several brown trouser moments over the years with pfds pulling straight out into lane 1 from the hard shoulder. Take their cars away and crush them.
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Defensive Driving tip: In free flowing traffic *always* move to L2 to pass a vehicle on the HS.
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I take much the same approach whenever there is something stopped, even in a layby on a dual carriageway.
Blue
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> take much the same approach whenever there is something stopped
And me, anything broken down, stopped, being recovered on the hard shoulder, always move over into lane two if possible to give a lane in safety width.
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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I once had to stop at he end of a narrow slip road as the car in front was taking the give way line literally. She (sorry) waited untill there was a gap and crept onto the motorway, fortunatly it wasnt too busy. Having been stopped I used the hard shoulder to accelerate to lane 1 speed. I think motorway training should be mandatory and part of the driving test.And me, anything broken down stopped being recovered on the hard shoulder always move over into lane two if possible to give a lane in safety width.
Is that training or common sense? I cringe when I see people alongside an articulated truck on a roundabout, often in a blind spot, or alongside in moving traffic leaving no one an escape route if it all goes pear shaped.
Edited by Old Navy on 06/11/2007 at 11:30
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I too change lane where possible, for safety & also for courtesy as being passed by traffic a few feet away at 90mph is not fun.
I have a few more hard-shoulder foibles:
* People changing wheels on the offside rather than waiting 15 mins for the AA to come do it
* As above, but without parking as far left as possible - are these people completely stupid?
* People waiting on the hard shoulder itself rather than on the other side of the crash barrier
* Not using the hazard lights when on the HS!
Surely some of this stuff is OBVIOUS common sense, and some of these people look like they've been around for a while. I'm wondering whether driving is one of the few areas where people seem to get worse and worse with the more experience they get?
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I'm wondering whether driving is one of the few areas where people seem to get worse and worse with the more experience >>they get?
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Experience reinforces bad habits. When I had to pass a UK test having learned to drive, and driven for two years in Australia, my uk instructor said that it was more difficult to undo my bad habits than teach me from scratch. Poor guy had the same problem with SWMBO as well!
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Perleman, agree with what you are saying but how many people do not have a recovery service membership? Also, both my cars are covered by 3 year manufacturer AA cover but AFAIK, it only covers mechanical breakdowns, not tyre changing, locking yourself out etc.
I remember back in July travelling down the M6 I think and it was that absolutely torrential rain, so heavy that it had brought the traffic to an almost standstill and there was broken down car on the hard shoulder, but the family had taken refuge behind the crash barrier.
Ultimately it was the right decision to make as the conditions could very easily have led to someone crashing into their car, but it must have been so tempting to stay in the car and keep dry!
--
2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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A long sliproad onto the M1 southbound at Ardsley. Downhill too so most people join at an easy 70mph.
trouble was there was a stationary car in the carriageway at the bottom of the sliproad.
At an angle too as though joining a T junction. That was scaring everyone to death, both in the inside lane and on the sliproad as other cars flashed across its front as they joined the M1.
I can still remember a car full of very anxious japanese people peering out from the car.
Edited by oilrag on 06/11/2007 at 13:11
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My friend tore round a bend in his colleagues brand new M3 on the Autobahn a few years back at 155mph, and saw a massive queue of stationary traffic ahead, slammed on the breaks but wasn't going to stop in time, aimed the car at the bank at the side but saw there were people sitting on there as the traffic had stopped for so long that people had got out of a coach & were enjoying the sun! So he smashed into the back of the coach instead.
My friend claims it took a kilometer to stop and they hit the coach at about 25MPH, completely writting off the car. However they were in a delerious state when they climbed out & both burst into laughter through shock - while 50 stunned german children looked on with their mouths wide open.
The moral is, everyone should drive extreme performance cars as they are clearly very safe
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I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this - it depends rather on traffic flows, type of vehicle , ambient speed of flow, proximity of junction or other flow 'changer' etc.
I can imagine a situation where a turn-off is looming - not a good place to 'use up' hard shoulder maybe - it could even be sensible to reverse slowly back up the hard shoulder - with hazards on - to give yourself more room, away from the change-lane area. In other situations, it may also be hazardous to accelerate on the hard shoulder if you're effectively undertaking & not able to join lane 1 - what if someone else then pulls onto the hard shoulder or mistakes your intentions?
Most other times, it may be the best solution - e.g. where speeds are high, but traffic light - to accelerate hard & indicate left while on the hard shoulder. It may be better to wait - with hazards on - for a big enough gap to open, (balancing this of course, with the jeopardy of being any length of time on the hard shoulder..) before moving off. All depends really.
Edited by woodbines on 06/11/2007 at 14:32
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I can imagine a situation where a turn-off is looming - not a good place to 'use up' hard shoulder maybe
In that situation the best option would be to use the slip road and rejoin the motorway afterwards. Of course that's an easy judgement to make on a thread, easily might not occur while sitting on a motorway hard shoulder panicking about there being little room to accelerate into.
Of course it also assumes it's not an 'annoying' junction (technical term)
Edited by BazzaBear {P} on 06/11/2007 at 15:57
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My friend tore round a bend in his colleagues brand new M3 on the Autobahn a few years back at 155mph My friend claims it took a kilometer to stop
Absolute rubbish-you'd be talking 300-400m max, even with fairly slow reactions. But as your friend's estimation of a kilometer is that far out, it doesn't surprise me he wasn't able to stick to the tried and tested 'be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear' methodology!
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You're probably right, estimating distance while attempting to brake from 155-0 might be hard & it may well have seemed longer than it was. Re stopping distance, this was a mid-20's lad showing off to his mate, hood open on a sunny day in a high performance car, probably music blaring. He might just have learned his lesson though
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Yeah I'll bet! Meant to say it was good work picking a safe impact spot though...how many people in that situation freeze and just slam into about the worst thing they could possibly hit? I can imagine it would feel like it would take forever to stop from that speed, especially with a looming impact.
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@perleman
One other thing, I didn't mean to make my post begining with 'absolute rubbish' sound that attacking and aggressive, just wanted to my offer opinion but wasn't trying to be balshy etc. I know it's just a story of a story etc so apologies if the post sounded off.
Cheers
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"Absolute rubbish-you'd be talking 300-400m max"
On a bend? Even assuming a quick reaction, at 155 and 0.7g it would take over 400m in a straight line.... Dozy with the sun, rounding a bend and being unused to high speed braking in adversity, best part of km seems quite feasible. Calculator on SS used, BTW.
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Guess it depends on how sharp the bend is. Of course if the brakes aren't fully applied then it will take longer-most people in an emergency stop put the pedal through the floor, which is of course what you're meant to do. Seems a shame to run into the back of a coach at 25mph after almost one thousand metres of braking because you didn't apply the brakes fully.
Agree with the reaction times etc though-how many people can claim to be able to safely manage 155mph speeds? Not many I would wager-myself included, not without training or at least some regular experience at those speeds.
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Oh and another thing-if it really did take a kilometer roughly to stop, that means the hazard was perceived more than a kilometer away-you can hardly describe a stretch of road with more than a kilometers forward vision as a 'bend'-well you can, but not a sharp one even at 155mph!
Edited by component part on 06/11/2007 at 17:38
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In that situation the best option would be to use the slip road and rejoin the motorway afterwards..
Yes - sounds the best idea - I hadn't really considered that! You could I suppose, in extremis, even crawl up the slip road hard shoulder to the junction where contrasting speeds are not such an issue.
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>>People changing wheels on the offside rather than waiting 15 mins for the AA to come do it
15 minutes? It took them an hour and a half to come out last time I needed them.
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15 minutes? It took them an hour and a half to come out last time I needed them.
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You would be dead for longer than than 1.5 hours if you got hit.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/11/2007 at 19:08
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I've been arrogant in assuming that everyone has breakdown cover it would seem - surely even if your car is mechanically sound this is a good reason to spend £40 though & you can wait for them to come on the other side of the barrier. Hard if you're a lass on your own though I suppose. BTW the last time I called RAC when the exhaust fell off the Punto courtest car I had, they came in 10 mins in Winchester city centre
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>>Am I alone in thinking you should get up to speed on the hard shoulder and then merge with the traffic flow as if you were joining from a junction?
No, you are not alone. The Highway Code Rule 276 is with you too.
www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycod...3
Edited by jbif on 06/11/2007 at 22:41
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Also covered in 259, joining a motorway!
"check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane "
How many actually do that when joining from a slip road?!!
Edited by b308 on 07/11/2007 at 09:01
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some of the comments here reminded me of my last blow-out.
I hit a large chunk of metal on the M8 which took out the left front tyre of my VW Caravelle. It was a Saturday and the road was quite busy. After initial inspection showed the tyre was completely knackered I then drove, fairly slowly, maybe half-a-mile on the hard shoulder to a police 'view point' - you know, the raised platform where they have their sandwiches :) Went up onto there and changed the wheel - felt much safer than on the shoulder itself.
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I am very surprised at everyone in this thread being surprised and not knowing that it is part of the Highway Code! Also for those who have ever chatted to the police on the hard shoulder will know, they always advise to get up to speed before joining the carriageway.
What does annoy me a lot is on slip roads joining dual/m'ways is when you follow a car that does about 40mph in order to find a gap before getting up to speed. Leaves you flapping in the wind a bit.
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