Last day of my fortnight off...aaah... its been lovely, and been having a browse over some of my favourite forums.
I've got funny ideas as some of you have probably already guessed, and losing the plot as well yes i do know.
Well i'm amazed at the amount of people who are prepared to risk running relatively expensive diesel vehicles on mazola.
IMO the complexity and cost of modern diesels means i take no risk with the maintenance and operation of these.
And i've realised today that i could no longer take the risk of buying another used diesel vehicle.
Look if i paid a couple of hundred quid for a fairly simple old fashioned indirect diesel then if it runs ok on the muck, why not, if it blows up on 6 months i'm probably in pocket, but i will not be taking the risk of having someone else's experiment on my hands.
In fact my old merc indy is adamant on having nothing to do with this mazola thing and his opinion is good enough for me.
What does the panel think.
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Look if i paid a couple of hundred quid for a fairly simple old fashioned indirect diesel then if it runs ok on the muck why not
"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance".
Aluminum shims cut from beer tins.
v.
Genuine shims made of aluminum impotred straight from Germany, the last of the Baron von (?)'s stock"
(It's a long time since I read the book - perhaps I ought to dig it out again)
Which are better? If they both do the job, then....
If they don't, then your course is clear.
P.S. would there *really* be a difference in running an engine capable of running on "the muck" (a choice between "Extra Virgin Organical Very Lightly If At All Pressed Olive Oil suitable for consumption by the Higher Classes", or bog standard rape oil), and one capable of running on ordinary diesel oil? If it works, it works... if it doesn't, it doesn't....
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 04/11/2007 at 23:21
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If nobody ever took a risk we'd never get any progress in any field. If it's just neat veggie oil from Tesco then it's unlikely to work in most common rail engines without conversion, if it's refined into Biodiesel then I don't see a problem with it - even though many VAG cars come with a label saying "No Biodiesel" in actual fact you can call VAG and discuss it with them, most of the time it means "no uncertified Biodiesel" i.e. Veggy Oil direct.
Whether diesel, petrol or otherwise any modern car is complex compared to the cars of old, but we wouldn't be breathing half as well as we do with the traffic we have if those changes weren't being made.
I'd try 100% approved Biodiesel in any car, I'd skip Veggy oil in it's unrefined form in anything bar a bog simple engine like a Generator or Compressor on a building site.
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Agree with everything you say, gordonbennet. Over on another forum, there was a thread (now deleted) with someone arguing the point over wanting to put his used sump oil into the fuel tank, after an oil change.
There are quite a few lads elsewhere putting cooking oil (and homebrew concoctions of such)
Into their nice new common rails.
Cars often bought with parents money or with very short term ownership plans. Some of these have been chipped (pun not intended) misfueled with petrol and thrashed.
I got into a conversation about chipping a certain small common rail car where the chipping would have taken the gearbox way over its stated torque. No one cared. Same with using cooking oil as a fuel.
A lot of effort goes into super polishing the paintwork though, using the most exclusive waxes available.
Nice nearly new common rail Diesel, now on a forecourt near you and gleaming better than new.
just waiting for a family, struggling financially and not able to put that extra in to get a brand new one.
The new owner wanting to care for it and make it last, even goes to the trouble of using three and a half drops of his Willers snake oil and worries at night in bed, should he have given it four.
Not even in his wildest nightmare does he dream that the four horsemen of the apocalypse have have been through the fuel system.
Regards
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Eloquently put, oilrag. Use fuel and other consumables to the manufacturer's specifications.
By doing that you are getting the benefit of the testing you have paid for both on the part of the vehicle builder and on the part of the supplier of the consumables.
This is what specifications are for.
659.
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For an alternative pint of view,
I think we will have to see how things pan out in the long run. Running cars on Biodiesel or a Diesel and Edible food product is all really quite new in this country and toatally unorganised hence so much rumor and counter claim.
Like I said on here before I think we will have to look elsewhere for evidence either way. Having worked in Northern Ireland and Farance I can say that they know far more about "brew's" etc
In NI it is big business in a criminal sense. Around 2000 it was estimated that 30% of Diesel fuel consumed in NI had been altered either by having "Red" washed (with acid) or Smuggled white from the south diluted with veg oil.
In France the situation is different for instance there is a big famers co-operative providing fuel to many small retailers in the Normandy area this isn't some big operation but it does do 30000 litres per week. Over tin the east of France the most technologically advanced plant has just been finished near Strasbourg.
It very easy for car markers to find a weekness to exploit just not to a warranty claim and remember all Diesel will have to have a Bio part under EC rules
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Well, as I have said before, my 1997 Toyota Lucida 2.2td runs quite happily on 50% diesel and 50% KTC Veg Oil from Tesco, though if the price of veggie oil keeps going up I'll just use diesel.
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Just bear in mind the logical extension to bio fuels is starvation. Its already happening, foodstuffs are going up and getting scarce due to raw material being used to produce bio fuels (ok so its mainly petrol but the principal is the same)
------------------------------
< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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1 litre corn oil is 49p at Lidl right now, cheapest i have found.
I also use it in my 100000 mile Toyota Hiace Diesel at something near 50/50.I have just recently started doing this so I can't vouch for long term durability but so far I cannot tell any difference in running or drivability.
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Database here for cars running on veg oil; reports and comments from users:
snipurl.com/1t65p
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Interesting replies chaps, and seems to be no fence sitting on this subject.
FT, your way above me in cryptic prose and i'm still trying to work out what you mean, very funny though.
cjehuk, wonder if VAG would put in writing that they ok the use of biodiesel or would that be a phone call that didn't happen two years down the line when somethings not right?
659FBE, i agree fully with your point, don't suppose engineers test their vehicles to destruction and then just make up specifications for fun.
Rich 9-3 very interesting link will keep a note of that thanks.
Oilrag, your post had me in stitches the sentence 'not even in his wildest nightmare does he dream that the four horsemen of the apocalypse have been through the fuel system' was priceless and unfortunately very near a true scenario i'm sure for many people.
When i hear the costs that some poor souls have had to stump up even on vehicles they have treated well its truly shocking
You chaps that are running veggie oil, will you be headling that fact in the sales patter for your car when you sell it?
ttfn
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Mmm, wonder if the police have been reading this thread.........
Unless of course you Tesco shoppers have been declaring and paying the tax on your veggie oil like good boys.......
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Oh not another B308, are you from the past?
Check you facts before you belch.
Get with it! It's not funny when you're wrong, you just look daft.
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Oh dear, condecending, or what?!
Oh, and my original post was meant to be amusing, though there is an element of truth in it, if its used as fuel, then tax is payable.......
But of course you knew that but just felt you'd "have a dig", eh!
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No he's right. Tax is NOT payable on veg oil any more as long you don't use more than 2500 litres per year.
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So we are both right in theory - but why couldn't he have been a little less condecending in his reply, and said why, especially as my original post was light hearted in the first place? Just seemed petty to me.....
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B308 & Hamsafar - you are both wrong.
B308 - its not the police that would be interested, it's revenue and customs. And of course, as you now know there is an exception in place.
Hamsafer - Maybe we are talking about users who are over the threshold? That would make you wrong.....
It's all light hearted, please don't let me offend anyone.
here's a load of smilies to cheer everyone up
:) :0) :p :) :¬)
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What does the panel think?
Running an old car with an inline injection pump on veg oil - less chance of it going wrong and if it does you lose a few hundred quid - worth a gamble IMO.
Running a newer car on it with injection system like a swiss watch - depends how much of a gambler you are and how deep your pockets are if it goes wrong..
I need a car that will reliably commute 50+ miles day-in-day-out without fuss and can?t afford a 4-figure bill if it goes wrong; so although I've thought about it, I've not had a go at it. By 'having a go' I mean buying an old car; my current car has a bit of a delicate injection pump.
Another list here of vehicle-specific usage:
www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.ph...3
(Have a browse round this site)..
SmartVeg make computer-controlled, heated twin-tank systems, and guardedly say yes you can run a CR diesel on veg oil with one of their systems fitted. But they also say, yes of course your engine warranty will be void if you run it on non-standard fuel.
www.smartveg.com/
Rich.
Edited by Rich 9-3 on 07/11/2007 at 18:25
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