The expectation of the driver approaching the T-junction from the minor road might perhaps explain this. It's far more likely that they will have to stop completely with the high traffic volumes we have - so they don't bother looking right - they're going to stop anyway. Their focus is on stopping at the 'stop' sign or junction edge & not in anticipating a gap to merge into.
The OP might, therefore, be too anxious in assuming they're not going to or be able to stop (barring poor technique or awareness of course).
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sorry woodbines in my opinion you are wrong,drivers dont even take notice of stop signs anymore ,as said they are on the phone, picking their noses or whatever,they depend on good brakes to stop them at the last second but would like to bend the laws of physics to manage to get out in front of you ,only to sit in the middle of the road to take a right hand turn 100 yards up the road ,with their vehicle at an angle to stop the rest of us procedding,what happened to proper skills where you placed your car on the left of the crown line to let other traffic flow through?
we have a country of selfish drivers in the main and who are the most thoughtfull? its women as they seem to be more aware of surroundings
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I think Bell Boy puts his finger on it - over reliance on good brakes.
Taught to drive in the era of unpowered drums I still hear my driving instructors' voice "don't go tear-arsing up to the line, what will you do if your brakes fail!!!"
Along with "lean forward; tits on the wheel" to improve sightlines and "don't turn right until you can see into the pfd road" it's advice that stood me in good stead for the intervening thirty years.
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What bell boy said.
It always makes me flinch when someone does this, and it shows how many people drive along never contemplating the old "What happens if?" in their head. One day there will be some ice or oil at the junction and they will not be able to stop.
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I am perhaps guilty of this to a degreee...but only because I like to be absolutely sure while approaching a junction that errant pedestrians or cyclists on pavement are not just blindly making progress across the junction without bothering to look. Have been caught out before by looking to the right when almost on top of the junction (no matter how slowly it is approached) only to find someone blindly going across it and indignantly shaking their head or swearing. It's a juggling act and if I am not looking at oncoming cars until the last moment then I certainly do not make a habit of roaring up and jamming on the anchors at the last minute.
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Is this another experience issue, those of used to older vehicles would probably have approached said junction reasonably slowly to hopefully still be rolling and already be doing 10 or so mph as we pull out. Both to be kind to our vehicles and not inconvenience other road users.
This second point is getting worse have any others noticed the new way of pulling out in front of traffic, preferably performed in a high powered vehicle the driver pulls out in front of a lower powered vehicle and when the victim has had to brake to 10mph or so the driver then roars away proving how well endowed he (and 99 times it will be he) is. What the heck is that all about?
Talking of favoured sayings of driving instructors, my old hgv instructors favourite was 'clear the hazard' meaning after clearing roundabout/junct/obstruction get boot down and get moving, how times have changed.
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Heavy late braking is bad driving for a lot of reasons, but it's commonplace.
But it always makes me nervous now when someone rushes up to a junction when I am batting along an A road. I used not to, but someone did it once, at the exit from a pub, as I approached at about 55mph on a wet bit of single carriageway A24. I started to brake, the car stopped at the intersection with a jerk, I took my foot off the brake pedal, then the pfd pulled abruptly into my carriageway to turn right, couldn't because of traffic coming the other way, stopped dead and was hit hard on the front offside quarter by my wheels-locked Peugeot 205 diesel, which suffered about £3000 worth of damage but did survive. He hadn't been drinking, the police told me, but he sure as hell caused an accident more or less single-handed. Two of the cars I had just overtaken rear-ended each other too.
What a wally. I've always worried about people who do that since then.
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I've had people boast to me how they actually use abs brakes on purpose in these sort of situations!
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Heavy late braking is bad driving for a lot of reasons but it's commonplace.
I like a bit of LHB (late, heavy, braking)
I don't have much horse power, My car has 5 good tyres and new discs and pads on the front.
with a little LHB and foward planning I can make up ground that my lack of grunt lost when approaching a moving queue on a motorway off ramp. I keep enough braking in reserve to stop, but the second a gap opens I'm off the brakes and on the gas with out losing valuable momentum.
PS no points, protected NCB.
It's not the speed of approach at intersections it is body langauge. The last time I had to take evasive action at a intersection was approaching a roundabout and the little old dear in the MKII Micra pootling along didn't give any indication that she was going to give way to me, or that she had even noticed the roundabout. I slowed to a stop, just as she woke up and skidded onto the roundabout into where I would have been had I not stopped. I doubt she was doing 30, so she was a "safe driver". Better to have a fast approach with an alert driver I say.
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Fast approach OK nb, and alert driver always a good idea.
However heavy late braking is bad for the brakes, the tyres and your nerves without making you progress any faster. Indeed braking late and heavily often confuses other road users and often gets you too close to the hazard before you've decided what to do about it, so it ends up making you slower. Wringing the last second out of a car in town or in traffic is extremely wearing and liable to get you noticed. You would only do it in a life-or-death situation unless you were young, eager and inexperienced.
It may seem counter-intuitive if you are a press-on type, but I have discovered over many decades that slightly laid-back - no need to carry it to extremes as so many do - is quickest, most relaxing and most elegant.
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I agree Lud. Smoothness and good forward planning are the trick to making good progress.
Junction road surfaces often have poorer grip due to the road getting polished and particles of rubber and brake dust (from continous exposure the braking vehicles) settle on the road and act as a 'lubricant'.
I also think that far too many cars have over-assisted brakes. A light toe pressure gives too much retardation. I like good brakes, but that doesn't meant too much servo.
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I wonder if drivers only stop when they are level with the give way lines, forgetting about the 3 or 4 foot of car in front of them (aka the front bumper and engine).
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As a motorcyclist I was taught 25 years ago to focus on two things on a vehicle pulling up to a junction, the driver's eyes - make eye contact - and the front wheel, the eye apparently can pick up movement there very quickly.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 28/10/2007 at 19:01
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The opposite extreme is quite common too. Someone stops at the junction, but then creeps forward over the line as you approach. Are they going to stop? Have they even seen me? Do they know how much of their car is now protruding?
On a drive yesterday I experienced four such will he/won't he moments:
1) as OP - jams brakes on at last moment
2) Creeps forwards, then pulls straight out in front at 10 mph
3) Someone in a line of oncoming traffic dithering about, swinging out to overtake, has he seen me coming? swings back in again, puts his wheels 2 feet over the line on my side, swings in again, then finally pulls out at high speed when I am barely past
4) Someone pulling out from the other side of the road to go in the opposite direction, but uses half my side as his turning circle. His side was clear, so he didn't even look in my direction.
It's a jungle out there.
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That's why we have horns ! or in the case of my bike a Stebel Magnum horn that I'm led to believe will make the offender's ears bleed.
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I hope Lewis Hamilton is reading this and taking it in. Might be useful next season.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 28/10/2007 at 20:44
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That's why we have horns ! or in the case of my bike a Stebel Magnum horn that I'm led to believe will make the offender's ears bleed.
Will those fit any bike or just BMs? Am rather fed up with the Bandit's pathetic little squeak. The engine is louder, for goodness' sake.
On the original topic (sorry) it appears that "give way" as a concept is being abandoned, particularly where I live (a semi-rural village with many pinch-points). I should be interested to hear how some of these people explain themselves to their insurers when the inevitable happens.
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Any bike, got mine (brand new ) from e-bay, - about 2 quid cheaper than Halfords, who obviously stock them, there's two versions, this one for CANbus electrical systems and ones called the Nautilus for traditional wiring systems - they are plenty loud.
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Any bike...
Top tip, PU, ta - will have a word with my friendly neighbourhood bike-fixin' guy!
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