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I purchased, in December 2000, an 8-month old Vauxhall Vectra SRi, factory LPG conversion, with 13,000 miles on the clock. After about 7 months and a further 12,000 miles, the performance on LPG deteriorated rapidly until the car would no longer drive on gas at all, but was fine on petrol. The local main Vauxhall dealer could find no obvious problem but replaced the LPG distributor under warranty with no quibbles and this appeared to cure the problem... until now. After a further 24,000 miles the same fault has developed with exactly the same consequences. If LPG is such a clean fuel, why should the fuel distributor become blocked and, if the cause of the fouling is carbon deposits as suggested by the garage, why isn't the petrol performance affected as well? The only other suggestion I have had is that there is a small air leak in the LPG fuel system causing the fuel mixture to be too lean to support combustion. Any suggestions, or have any of your other readers had similar problems with LPG?
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The lease Vauxhall Vectra dual fuel here, has had auto petrol/LPG switch over problems that the main agent was lost on. It was eventually sorted out. Runs well now at 30k took time though.
My Volvo 240 estate runs on LPG all the time with CI injection and Dutch Groot LPG conversion. The problem here has been idle speeds. Very sensitive to air leaks and air flow. I have kept a detailed spreed sheet for two years on consumption and is about 83% of petrol consumption (27mpg). From this I can tell who is dispencing the right quantity of gas (there is no way the Trading Standards can check it yet). Some give me 21mpg some 27!! Guess which I use.
The installer said there are residues of crude oil in LPG and this will get into the evaporator, though there is a filter. I looked at the other day and it was clean.
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Brian
I don't doubt you have found a problem, but I wonder why LPG volumes cannot be measured as accurately as petrol volumes? You are talking of 25% variation here!
If so, sounds like LPG should be sold by mass, not volume.
Regards
John S
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about your lpg quantity problem,
do you mean it fills to different quantitys each time?
lpg tanks are filled using a float system pressure doesnt come into it it works like the ballcock in your toilet
However apparently due to the comparitively low pressure pumps in the UK compared to Italy tanks using italian valves sometimes dont cut off properly and will fill to 100% which is bad should you fill up on a cold morning and then park in the hot sun for the rest of the day this can result in the tank venting pressure
so tanks are supposed to fill only to 80% Polish Stako tanks are worst for this problem with cheap valves the more expensive WVM and Icom tanks seem fine even with our low pressure pumps
Dave
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LPG can be measured accurately and if the pump is calibrated and sealed you will get exactly what you should but tradind standars can not come round and fill a litre bottle to check it hasnt been tampered with so if the gauge isnt sealed with a calibration seal steer clear
dave
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Brian I don't doubt you have found a problem, but I wonder why LPG volumes cannot be measured as accurately as petrol volumes? You are talking of 25% variation here! If so, sounds like LPG should be sold by mass, not volume.
It is
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Help!
Since I have exactly the same problem with my LPG Astra (factory fitted) I read your reply with interest.
Does this mean the idle speed, or mixture need adjusting? What air leaks or air flow adjustments could be made?
I've been quoted £335 by dealer to replace distributor, which "may" solve problem. I have a Koltec-WVM system.
Can anyone help?
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To Johnslpg,
So your problem is an erratic idle? How erratic? I think I was told that a small amount of eraticness is perfectly normal, the problem being the nature of the fuel, when the idle gets too fast the system slows down the gas supply, when it gets to slow it speeds up the gas supply. It is a very difficult thing to fine tune. Having said that my idle was lovely. If you're in the Gloucester/Hereford area I can recommend someone.
For this thread in general..........Some cars are not fitted with a decent evaporator, and some evaporators are too small for the engine they supply. There is some sort of a flexible (can't think of the word) bellows type divider inside the evaporator, and this can get stuck. If I was you I'd find a good local lpg fitter with good knowledge. If you have saloon car taxis in your area, you may find a lot of them are converted, and they should know who is a good fitter. LPGA registered is not a gaurantee of a good fitter or knowledgeable.
And again for this thread in general, on the issue of pump accuracy...........
that everyone who drives LPG gets to know their car. So You will know that when you are out of gas it takes 85 litres to the first cut off (this varies slightly according to season). You also get to know what mileage you will get on a full tank. In my area there was a supplier who many people said when they filled there they were filled with more litres than they usually got and they got the same mileage for the full tank, so the only thing that explains it is that the callibration is wildly innaccurate on those pumps.
ON trading standards, a perspex tank should be perfectly feasible to manufacture, and this would enable spot checks to be done accurately. Or just weighing the gas dispensed is another option. What is it....1Kg = 2 litres of LPG approx ?
Good luck.
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Hi Big Mack,
I'm in Newport so would appreciate knowing someone in Glouc/Hereford area - PM me if you don't mind.
The Astra I gave up on and sold - and I did read later that the Vauxhall OEM conversions required new LPG dizzy's every 40k.
I now run a Peugeot 205 Convertible on LPG which is great fun ;)
On the general thread topic - I log my miles driven between fills so can get an idea of MPG - and I've always found a strong correlation suggesting little variance between different suppliers.
My philosophy is though get it from the horses mouth - i.e. a gas supplier rather than a petrol station.
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- PM me if you don't mind.
You'll probably be out of luck - He last visited the forum: Mon 22 Aug 2005.
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I have a BMW 7 series. It worked well in LPG for the past 7 years. There was a smell of gas in the gas for sometime but the LPG garage couldnt find the problem. Now the car is not changing over to gas at all. The engine stops dead when changed to gas. Twice I've taken it to different garages, at I drive it away from the garage 'aparantly fixed.'. But the very next morning the car cuts out when changed to lpg. Can someone help me please. It's costing me a lot of money and I still have the problem!!
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BMW Mary, there are may LPG converters, some good some not, most specialise in only a tiny selection of the many systems available, its been in your car for 7 years at least, so you'll want someone who's been in the game for a long time and familiar with yours.
You will probably find a recommended workshops by scrolling through the LPGA forum, there is a specific find a workshops forum within.
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Was there ever a resolve as i have the sme issue?
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Mr and fries,
the problem with your car is as someone else has mentioned crude deposits in the gas known as heavy ends also rust dust from the bulk tanks but do not despair you have a filter!!!!!
The gas pipe has an in line filter like any fuel system its recomended by the lpga to replace this filter annually or 20,000 miles whichever is sooner its a cheap job you replace the whole solenoid filter as one costing about £20 at any decent LPG installerthe biggest problem you find with the main dealers is that none of the main dealer staff are trained in LPG and are usually terrified by it so do yourself a favour take the car to a proper lpg garage and have the gas serviced check LPGA.co.uk for your local approved garage
dave
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Thanks for these comments. The main dealer is actually an approved LPGA garage and seems to know what they are talking about, even though they only have one LPG accredited mechanic. No-one has mentioned the filter replacement before - I'll make sure it gets done when the distributor is replaced (which the garage is doing under warranty as it is less than a year since it was done last!).
Interesting comments about the delivery pumps. I guess that because the LPG is under pressure there could be some variations in the volumetric delivery and the amount of fuel you can physically get into the tank before the pressures equalize. The only gauges I have seen on the pumps is a pressure gauge which seems to vary between 6 and 8 bar depending on time of year.
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BM
LPG is a liquid, so should be measurable to pretty much the same accuracy as petrol. I wonder of some of it comes over as vapour, and so affects the metering?
Regards
John S
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