duggie
This is a fuel injection engine; but there's five different types of 1.4 on that year. An engine code would help.
Spinning over without obvious compression would suggest that the valve timing is out. Only the X14XE twin-cam engine hits the valves, so it's more likely that there's a timing error.
First carry out a compression check. If the pressures are low [sub 120 psi] then re-check the timing marks on the cam belt.
If the marks line up; remove the cam sprocket and crank sprocket and check that the keyways haven't sheared and the sprockets have moved.
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i would double check
your car is a fuel injection - its a single point.
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i stand corrected, thanks for your replies, l'll re-check the valve timing tomorrow, if the timing was out would this prevent petrol going into the cylinders?
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duggie
Quite possibly; if the inlet valves are late closing, then there would be little suction to drag it in. I wouldn't worry about petrol until you've got some compression to fire it.
What reference book are you using to set the cam timing?
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When i replaced the belt, i lined up the marks on the camshaft and crankshaft pulleys with the marks on the engine casing, making sure no.1 piston was at tdc. l'll re-check tomorrow, i dont think the key ways are damaged.
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If it's an 8 valve, take the cam cover off (it's only a 2 minute job) and check that no cam followers / fingers have snapped.
On some of these engines, it's also very easy to damage the teeth on outside edge of the crank pulley - where the crank angle sensor should pick up a signal.
Number_Cruncher
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Removed the cam cover this morning, found that one of the cam followers/fingers has snapped off (second one in from distributor end), what is the easiest way over this? replace the head (one from breakers)? or remove the camshaft, if so how easy is it to remove? can it be done in situ and any special tools needed? Thanks again for the replies.
Duggie
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you need a tool to get the "finger" out (£15 worth) i would source a s/h finger from a scrappy to be honest
still think you have a crank senser problem that isnt telling the ecu to petrol the injector though
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There's no need to remove the head, or use special tools, See;
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=54...5
However, I do think that checking the crank sensor is a good check to make, as is checking the compressions.
Number_Cruncher
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having a distinct liking for everything organic,ie i like my teeth and eyes where they are i would rather buy the safe tool
its a sealey vs151 and the price is £14.95 + vat
tinyurl.com/2zspu7
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Having found the broken follower would this have bent the valve stem? also had a look around the crank pulley cant see any sensor, are they all fitted with one?
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duggie
If you've got a broken rocker; then something odd has happened - so yes; bent valves are a distinct possibility.
If you can; carry out that compression test, then we'd have some solid data to interpret.
Look on the extreme gearbox end of the block, behind the radiator and see if you can decipher the stamped-in engine code - it would help.
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>>i like my teeth and eyes where they are...
Hmm, lucidity itself!
If you mean that you don't want to compress the valve by hand, then, you've misunderstood the method I have suggested - once you have emptied the hydraulic lifter, it is limp, and you compress the tiny spring within the lifter, NOT the valve when re-fitting the follower - there's no danger at all to your priceless features!
Usually, I'm also a fan of using the right special tool, although in this case, I've seen more damage done by the use of the "correct" tool. The cam cover bolts and threads in the cambox aren't the strongest features, and I've seen a couple of fractured cam boxes. Remember when changing Vauxhall camshafts was a nice regular source of work?
I also like to get the hydraulic lifter out and compress it, because these can jack open, and stay open for days. My ex-apprentice built up a Cavalier engine that wouldn't start for a week - until the lifters leaked, it had no compression at all!
While I agree strongly with the idea to do a compression test, remember that these rockers/followers are the deliberate weak point in the valve train, and it's quite possible - although not guaranteed - that there's no damage to the valves.
Number_Cruncher
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never damaged a cam carrier
still like the tool quick and easy
i dont think the fingers were the deliberate weak link on these engines i think its more luck
look at a ford tractor 1800 hundura when the belt goes it always takes the cam bearings and usually snaps the cam
oldman..
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>>i dont think the fingers were the deliberate weak link on these engines i think its more luck
I have to disagree. If you look at the finger, it would be much easier and cheaper to make without the thin section where they break. In fact, if you buy a typical aftermarket replacement cam kit, you typically get cheap nasty fingers with no weak point. You usually also buy a nasty cam with no decent fillet between the shaft and the lobes with a correspondingly short fatigue life - although obviously not poor as the life of the original Vauxhall cams in this type of engine during the 80's and early 90's!
The only other reason to take material out would be to improve the valve dynamics, but the weak point is near the pivot, and so, it doesn't move very far, and there isn't any dynamic advantage in removing mass there.
Number_Cruncher
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Message for bel-boy, using the special tool can i do this in situ? or do i need to remove the head?
Cheers.
Duggie
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in situ yes---no stripping apart from taking the cam cover off
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If you choose to use the special tool, take care to ensure that the piston is nowhere near TDC when you compress the valve - I suspect that not doing so might have been the cause of the cam-box fractures (these problems were the result of the work of ex-colleagues).
Number_Cruncher
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Its been awhile, the cars been sitting on the drive and yesterday l finally found time to change the broken cam follower, but it still wont start, my Son wants his car for driving lessons and l want some peace and quiet
the following has been checked
1. there is a spark at the plugs
2. petrol at the plugs
3. no firing at all, engine just turns over but wont fire up,
Please help lm running out of ideas
Duggie
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if you have spark at plugs and petrol at plugs then the only thing it could be is timming, unless the engine is flooded from excessive cranking
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Compression? Does it turn over like it should? Or too slow or too fast?
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If it's got a distributor is the rotor arm pointing at number 1 with the cylinder at tdc. I would go back to basics and check your at tdc with a piece of welding wire to make sure your on the right mark
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2 things spring to mind.
If the crank pulley has been off, it's very easy to damage the teeth on the edge of the pulley which act as the crank angle sensor teeth.
Has the cam seized up?, or even snapped completely? With the cam cover off, if you crank the engine, make sure the whole cam is turning.
As YB says, a compression test will also be useful.
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Thanks for the replies, the timing marks lve gone over a number of times, someone else has also checked, so lm confident theyre all lined up properly, the camshaft is turning so still in one piece, there is is no crankshaft sensor fitted so no teeth on the pulley. The only thing i need to do is a compression test, hopefully if i get back from work early i could do that today. The engine spins over quite easy so lm suspecting the readings are going to be low, i thought on this engine the valves have clearance from the piston at TDC? just wondering if the valves are damaged and not sealing properly?
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